TSD's Workbench - SECR and Industrial modelling

[TurboSnail]

Project hopping as usual, the Avonside progresses! Done bar weathering, so hopefully I'll be able to sum up the courage to tackle that soon.

 

 

[TurboSnail]

Having recently been complaining about not having much motivation, I've managed to do quite a bit in the last week or so! I'm really quite pleased with how this one has turned out, the chassis doesn't run brilliantly but considering it didn't cost a lot I'm not too worried. I'm now considering making another in Full Wainwright...

 

Still needs some paint touch-up on the wheels, brass wire details, varnish, transfers and a decent weathering.

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by TurboSnail

[wainwright1]

15 hours ago, TurboSnail said:

Having recently been complaining about not having much motivation, I've managed to do quite a bit in the last week or so! I'm really quite pleased with how this one has turned out, the chassis doesn't run brilliantly but considering it didn't cost a lot I'm not too worried. I'm now considering making another in Full Wainwright...

 

Still needs some paint touch-up on the wheels, brass wire details, varnish, transfers and a decent weathering.

 

 

 

Hi Tom.

 

That is looking good. Perhaps a few slight diagonal blemishes on the tank side which could be filled with Deluxe Perfect Plastic Putty and rubbed back very gently before priming.

 

Definitely need a 4mm version.

 

All the best

Ray

[Edwardian]

On 18/04/2021 at 19:05, TurboSnail said:

Project hopping as usual, the Avonside progresses! Done bar weathering, so hopefully I'll be able to sum up the courage to tackle that soon.

 

 

 

I love the little Avonside.

 

It put me very much in mind of 'Desmond', which you mention, the main difference apparent to me being Desmond's steel headstocks and back sheet.

 

However, your mystery Avonside has wooden headstocks, which may suggest  it is earlier than Desmond (works no. 1498 of 1906). Can anyone identify it?  I take the building in the background to be labelled 'Severn Mills'

 

Finding the picture online, I note it is captioned as No.3 at Sharpness Docks (Gloucester) 

 

 

Desmond (1906):

 

 

Is this bound for the Hardy's Hobbies stable, might we ask?

 

I wonder if Avonsides of the Trojan ilk would also be feasible using the Hornby Peckett chassis?  

 

 

Trojan had a sister in colliery service in the NE:

 

 

See IRS

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Edwardian
grammar

[TurboSnail]

1 hour ago, wainwright1 said:

Hi Tom.

 

That is looking good. Perhaps a few slight diagonal blemishes on the tank side which could be filled with Deluxe Perfect Plastic Putty and rubbed back very gently before priming.

 

Definitely need a 4mm version.

 

All the best

Ray

 

Thanks Ray - but this is the 4mm version!

 

The print lines on this one are very slight, only really visible through the camera. I gave most of the surfaces a quick sanding before painting and that seemed to do the trick, so clearly I didn't quite get the tanks 100%!

[TurboSnail]

49 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Finding the picture online, I note it is captioned as No.3 at Sharpness Docks (Gloucester) 

 

Is this bound for the Hardy's Hobbies stable, might we ask?

 

I wonder if Avonsides of the Trojan ilk would also be feasible using the Hornby Peckett chassis?  

 

SD No.3 is indeed the one I was going for, though I notice I've missed off the lower tank handrails.

 

I couldn't possibly comment on whether this might end up becoming a proper kit... that's up to Andy to decide!

 

The loco was drawn up using the dimensions/drawings from Trojan, as from what I could tell they're very closely related designs. I may even have modelled Trojan first, before deciding I'd prefer the larger tank type on my layout...

[Schooner]

1 hour ago, TurboSnail said:

... that's up to Andy to decide!

Well let him know that we think it's brilliant! A perfect fit for my layout too, a guaranteed order.

 

Fingers x'd

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, TurboSnail said:

 

SD No.3 is indeed the one I was going for, though I notice I've missed off the lower tank handrails.

 

I couldn't possibly comment on whether this might end up becoming a proper kit... that's up to Andy to decide!

 

The loco was drawn up using the dimensions/drawings from Trojan, as from what I could tell they're very closely related designs. I may even have modelled Trojan first, before deciding I'd prefer the larger tank type on my layout...

 

13 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Well let him know that we think it's brilliant! A perfect fit for my layout too, a guaranteed order.

 

Fingers x'd

 

Indeed.  I suspect HH gets first dibs, and that's fine, I've no problem buying from them.  

 

If not, we will have to hassle Tom!

 

BTW Tom, you should have received funds for the wagon order, so feel free to PM me as necessary.

 

 

[TurboSnail]

I've managed to locate some motivation from somewhere (I'll probably lose it down the back of the sofa again soon) and have made some good progress on the layout (see other thread!), but things are moving on the bench too. Here's a very grey photo...

 

[TurboSnail]

Just to hop over to a wildly different era for a second...

 

The R/C van has some fantastic transfers, courtesy of @Corbs. Certainly holding up better than my painting skills!

 

[TurboSnail]

A question for those more knowledgeable than I (i.e. virtually everyone):

 

What was the KESR coach livery around 1910-ish? And what Humbrol/Revell etc. colours would be useful to represent it? 

 

The only info I can find on it says brown and ivory, but I only found one source of that. I'm looking to represent one of the 4-wheel coaches on the EKR, which remained in KESR livery for a while.

Edited May 6, 2021 by TurboSnail

[TurboSnail]

I've done further research and still managed to come up with nothing! However, I did find this statement, which I think is worth enjoying (taken from the Wikipedia article):

 

"Tilmanstone Colliery had its own fleet of motley and disgraceful coal wagons (one job at the colliery was to check that returning empties still had floors). There is a strong rumour that several of these were buried in the waste tip"

[Annie]

11 hours ago, TurboSnail said:

A question for those more knowledgeable than I (i.e. virtually everyone):

 

What was the KESR coach livery around 1910-ish? And what Humbrol/Revell etc. colours would be useful to represent it? 

 

The only info I can find on it says brown and ivory, but I only found one source of that. I'm looking to represent one of the 4-wheel coaches on the EKR, which remained in KESR livery for a while.

Somewhere in the mess I call my archives I have a scan of a small book about the K&ESR, but do you think I can find it.

I'm fairly certain I posted a link to it in my virtual railways thread.  I'll go and have a look and see if I can find it..

[Tom Burnham]

As I understand it, the K&ESR new carriages were delivered in Kentish brown and ivory. Secondhand ones like the ex-GER and earlier ex-L&SW ones were all over brown.  Was it an ex-CLC that went to the EK? (could look it up) That would have been some shade of darkish brown, more or less faded. Stock delivered in brown and ivory seems to have gone to all brown when repainted (like the steam railcar). Green came in when they started buying bogie carriages from the Southern in the early 30s - initially whatever green they'd been and then repaints in "bottle green". Don't know about actual Humbrol or whatever numbers, I'm afraid.

[Edwardian]

1910 is not a bad year to choose; you can have Ilfracombe Goods, Rother, in blue with a brass dome!

 

As Tom says, it rather depends on what coaches.  That might depend on which end of the line you're interested in, as services tended to divide at Tenterden.

 

If anyone is interested, after the Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon coaches for WNR are developed, the next project will be the 1860s GER coaches, as used in a 3-set on the RVR/K&ESR (Brake Third - first - Brake Third), typically the set worked by Bodiam in the Edwardian period on the Robertsbridge - Tenterden section.

 

These would have been an example of the all-over brown referred to by Tom. Once I have these, I can make spare prints available. I also agree with Tom that the earlier ex-LSW coaches are also considered to have been brown. 

 

The following were in the two-tone livery by your period:

 

- Hurst Nelson coaches as rebuilt by Pickering into bogie coaches in 1904

- The Pickering bogies built for the Headcorn Extension, 1905

- The Pickering steam Railmotor, No.6

- At least 2 LSW 4-wheelers*

- Possibly a LSW 6-wheeler

- Possibly the GE 3-set** 

 

* These are pictured undated but with the Pickering rebuilds and with the GE 3-set, which is in all-brown.

** There is a picture of Rother in an accident in July 1910.  The reproduction is very small, but the coaches are said to be the GE set and they appear to have pale upper sides.

 

I'd have to spend further time to come up with a better answer.

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

14 hours ago, TurboSnail said:

one job at the colliery was to check that returning empties still had floors

 

I wonder to what period this statement applied? It might have been standard practice since floor boards may not necessarily have been nailed to the frame members and hence generally at risk of being purloined.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Compound2632

[TurboSnail]

Thanks for the info folks! I'll go for a darkish brown and the closest thing to ivory that I can find in my paint stash.

 

I'm planning a 'close enough' kind of model of the EKR coach using a Hornby third as a basis. IIRC there were a few early on from 1910 before passenger services officially started (I think in 1916?). Including a few of ex-KESR ones, a couple of which were in turn ex-CLC ones. 

 

(I'm not at my PC at the moment so can't check the Col Stephens site!)

[Edwardian]

15 minutes ago, TurboSnail said:

Thanks for the info folks! I'll go for a darkish brown and the closest thing to ivory that I can find in my paint stash.

 

I'm planning a 'close enough' kind of model of the EKR coach using a Hornby third as a basis. IIRC there were a few early on from 1910 before passenger services officially started (I think in 1916?). Including a few of ex-KESR ones, a couple of which were in turn ex-CLC ones. 

 

(I'm not at my PC at the moment so can't check the Col Stephens site!)

 

I think using your judgment on the shade is perfectly acceptable and, indeed, necessary!

[Tom Burnham]

Two ex-CLC 4 wheel carriages went from the K&ESR to the EK, No 11, a 5 compartment all third (EK 6) and No 12, a 4 compartment compo. Ex GER No 13, a 4 wheel third, also went to the EK, where it was destroyed in a collision before being renumbered. Personally I'd be inclined to paint your carriage all brown, but I doubt if anyone could prove you wrong either way! Some aspects of the origin myth of the East Kent are gradually emerging from the shadows, but it's really quite poorly documented - perhaps deliberately given Arthur Burr's creative accounting.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Tom Burnham
Typo corrected

[TurboSnail]

40 minutes ago, Tom Burnham said:

Two ex-CLC 4 wheel carriages went from the K&ESR to the EK, No 11, a 5 compartment all third (EK 6) and No 12, a 4 compartment compo. Ex GER No 13, a 4 wheel third, also went to the EK, where it was destroyed in a collision before being renumbered. Personally I'd be inclined to paint your carriage all brown, but I doubt if anyone could prove you wrong either way! Some aspects of the origin myth of the East Kent are gradually emerging from the shadows, but it's really quite poorly documented - perhaps deliberately given Arthur Burr's creative accounting.

 

Certainly seems Mr. Burr was a bit of a character from what I've read. The layout is based around a colliery that he would have had 'interest' in too, so that fits!
 

This is the clearest info I've found so far, and is by no means conclusive:

 

"The initial carriages for the EKR were purchased from the K&ESR railway that was discarding them as it re-equipped with steam heating and electric lighting. From KESR records it seems the sold carriages were patched up and despatched from June 1911 onwards. One third class carriage was sold in the second half of 1912. The 1913 accounts record the sale of carriages to the value of £210 and this may well be the settlement of account for the carriages supplied. All but one seem to have kept their brown and ivory livery for some time."

Taken from the Col. Stephens Society: https://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/rollingstock topics/ekr carriages.html

 

The layout is nominally set in 1912, but I don't really work to that precise a timeframe due to the difficulty of nailing down exact details and not wanting to beat myself up for getting things wrong. 

 

The next question, of course, is what sort of lettering/numbering did they have! I suspect I'll just have to make this up, so I'm inclined to go with "Third" lettering in the door panels and leave it at that.

[Tom Burnham]

The Colonel Stephens Railway Museum at Tenterden acquired this panel about 3 or 4 years ago.  The actual panel is relatively modern (so the colour isn't to be relied on), but the transfers are from old stock, made for the K&ESR in 1916.  Surprisingly ornate - we'd previously assumed that carriages would have been lettered by the Rolvenden painter, but not so.  It's on display in the Museum, which is open on train running days from 22 May.

[TurboSnail]

14 minutes ago, Tom Burnham said:

The Colonel Stephens Railway Museum at Tenterden acquired this panel about 3 or 4 years ago.  The actual panel is relatively modern (so the colour isn't to be relied on), but the transfers are from old stock, made for the K&ESR in 1916.  Surprisingly ornate - we'd previously assumed that carriages would have been lettered by the Rolvenden painter, but not so.  It's on display in the Museum, which is open on train running days from 22 May.

 

That's a great find - it's been years since I've been to the KESR so I'll have to visit when I'm back in the county at some point. 

[TurboSnail]

Unfortunately my phone camera is a bit rubbish, but having built far too many locos for a small layout, I'm finally catching up on some wagons too - another D1328 joins the roster. Still haven't nailed down the correct shade of grey!

 

[wainwright1]

2 hours ago, TurboSnail said:

Unfortunately my phone camera is a bit rubbish, but having built far too many locos for a small layout, I'm finally catching up on some wagons too - another D1328 joins the roster. Still haven't nailed down the correct shade of grey!

 

I would have said that the 2nd and 4th wagons were nearest to the correct shade for the Wainwright era.

Talking of K&ESR coaches, I don't know if you have looked at the early bogie coaches that they had which I recall were sold on to the Longmoor Military Railway, or Woolmer Instructional Military Railway its predecessor.

 

Any chance of another two of those dumb buffered ballast wagons when you get time and the weather warms up ?

 

All the best

Ray

[TurboSnail]

4 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

I would have said that the 2nd and 4th wagons were nearest to the correct shade for the Wainwright era.

Talking of K&ESR coaches, I don't know if you have looked at the early bogie coaches that they had which I recall were sold on to the Longmoor Military Railway, or Woolmer Instructional Military Railway its predecessor.

 

Any chance of another two of those dumb buffered ballast wagons when you get time and the weather warms up ?

 

All the best

Ray

 

I agree on the colour - unfortunately, I can't remember what it was, hence the variation! I think it's either Humbrol 32, or a VW Grey from Halfords, but I've run out of the latter and my tin of the former has solidified...

 

Fortunately, a bit of variation is prototypical, I hope!