Jump to content
 

TSD's Workbench - SECR and Industrial modelling


Recommended Posts

I've been threatening to make one of these for a while, must have finished the CAD about a year ago!

 

A Fletcher Jennings/Lowca Class D (I think) - there are a couple of bits wrong with it, but as it's so long since I did the drawing, I can't remember what they were, and it looks good enough to me.

 

Done in an experimental livery, this loco would have been swiftly renamed around 1914... Snowdown never had a Lowca, as far as I know, but I needed to pick somewhere local to the layout! Still needs coal, a crew, whistle, some weight and some hefty weathering.

 

IMG_20210802_112500.jpg.005bedb79a58a88da9255823b60dab9d.jpg

 

IMG_20210802_112607.jpg.a7a90b9c0b77a3fb7d370dead584b619.jpg

Edited by TurboSnail
  • Like 2
  • Craftsmanship/clever 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Beautiful and a great use of the Dapol/Hornby Terrier chassis

 

How did you do the lining?

 

Thanks - it fits a normal Terrier chassis, but this one's been modified to take a flywheel, so hopefully will perform a little bit better.

 

The livery is printed on large transfers, using plain white inkjet transfer paper. Everything inside the white lines is ink, not paint, part of the reason for using black being that it's an easy colour match between the ink and paint. The transfers were applied over gloss black Halfords spray paint. The outer lining is white, so that I don't have to colour in the white edges of the transfer paper.

 

I've got another loco I tried it on too, which didn't go quite as well, I'll show that later.

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Craftsmanship/clever 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

The East Kent ordered two 060Ts from Hawthorn Leslie but cancelled the order and they went elsewhere. One got far enough to have a HL official photo named Gabrielle, after one of Arthur Burr's granddaughters (Malcolm Burr's daughters). May be a source of other likely names? There were four sisters in all, including Rowena, Yolanda and Pearl as well as Gabrielle.

Edited by Tom Burnham
Pearl added.
  • Like 3
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the other transfer experiment loco - a Robert Stephenson ogee/piano tank. The transfers were also ok on this, though much harder to cut out, but I don't think my livery design was quite as good on this one. For whatever reason, it just doesn't quite look right to me? I might just be being overcritial of my work again.

 

IMG_20210806_080259.jpg.00f1c37afe2ad0df2ac9468a5744bb14.jpg

 

IMG_20210806_080326.jpg.d6a75021e0afb8fed3c58ecfd5bbb406.jpg

  • Like 5
  • Craftsmanship/clever 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I'm salivating over that.

 

It's a stunningly attractive loco.

 

I love the livery.  It is very prototypical to have that black and single colour line border round all those elements.

 

Where I think you could 'elevate' the livery would be to replace the single white lining (though keep the shapes and the incurves; I adore incurves), with something more elaborate, at least  triple lining, perhaps white-black white, yellow-black-yellow? 

 

I want one for the Norfolk Minerals!!!!

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

I love the livery.  It is very prototypical to have that black and single colour line border round all those elements.

 

Where I think you could 'elevate' the livery would be to replace the single white lining (though keep the shapes and the incurves; I adore incurves), with something more elaborate, at least  triple lining, perhaps white-black white, yellow-black-yellow? 

 

This one was actually done before the black Lowca - as it was the first test, I deliberately tried to keep it fairly simple. All the lining has to be drawn in CAD, so I didn't want to spend hours on it in case it came out wrong! Having said that, it's grown on me since I applied it, it's much easier to see the imperfections when you're doing it.

 

My review on the livery is:

  • I think the yellow lining is a little bit too thick
  • I could have left a slightly larger black border (but only slightly)
  • The red printed ok, and I'm really happy with the colour match to the chassis paint, but on close inspection you can see how the printer (inkjet) has mixed colours to achieve it - the black on the Lowca is much more solid
  • The black is also much easier to touch in where the ink rubs off (over rivets etc.)

So I think we may be seeing another black loco at some point! And I want to try one of my SECR locos with this method of transfer too...

 

The sticking point being that I have to wait until I visit my parents again - it may be a sign of the times that I own a 3D printer, but not a 2D one!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 02/08/2021 at 13:10, TurboSnail said:

I've been threatening to make one of these for a while, must have finished the CAD about a year ago!

 

A Fletcher Jennings/Lowca Class D (I think) - there are a couple of bits wrong with it, but as it's so long since I did the drawing, I can't remember what they were, and it looks good enough to me.

 

Done in an experimental livery, this loco would have been swiftly renamed around 1914... Snowdown never had a Lowca, as far as I know, but I needed to pick somewhere local to the layout! Still needs coal, a crew, whistle, some weight and some hefty weathering.

 

IMG_20210802_112500.jpg.005bedb79a58a88da9255823b60dab9d.jpg

 

IMG_20210802_112607.jpg.a7a90b9c0b77a3fb7d370dead584b619.jpg

Marvellous - I've been waiting for a long time to see models of the standard gauge Fletcher Jennings / Lowca engines.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TurboSnail said:

Here's the other transfer experiment loco - a Robert Stephenson ogee/piano tank. The transfers were also ok on this, though much harder to cut out, but I don't think my livery design was quite as good on this one. For whatever reason, it just doesn't quite look right to me? I might just be being overcritial of my work again.

 

IMG_20210806_080259.jpg.00f1c37afe2ad0df2ac9468a5744bb14.jpg

 

IMG_20210806_080326.jpg.d6a75021e0afb8fed3c58ecfd5bbb406.jpg

Looks splendid! 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Calling on the college of experts - does this resemble the earlier SECR carriage livery?

 

Personally, I think it's a tad too bright, and a bit pinky, but I don't really know! The guidance I have says 'dark red, slightly darker than Midland maroon'.

 

This is Ford Burgundy red - I may also try Ford Pepper red or Tamiya TS33 to see if they're any better, if anyone know which of those may work! Or any better suggestions!

 

IMG_20210814_093302.jpg.5794fc411cf495fa8bb8494bb2cf37e5.jpg

 

 

Edited by TurboSnail
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Until the detail colours are added, it is hard to truly say, but it does look a bit bright.

Agreed - the trouble with car colours is it's hard to tell from the label on the can, and photos in all sorts of different lights with different levels of fade after being outside for however many years.

 

The Phoenix colour seems to be quite dark, so I'm also considering RAL 3005 and RAL 3007 as options. I'm trying to avoid Phoenix as I much prefer spray painting and I don't have an airbrush - also not too keen on working with lead paint if I don't have to!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 14/08/2021 at 10:13, TurboSnail said:

Agreed - the trouble with car colours is it's hard to tell from the label on the can, and photos in all sorts of different lights with different levels of fade after being outside for however many years.

 

The Phoenix colour seems to be quite dark, so I'm also considering RAL 3005 and RAL 3007 as options. I'm trying to avoid Phoenix as I much prefer spray painting and I don't have an airbrush - also not too keen on working with lead paint if I don't have to!

Hi Tom.

 

Don't start me off again.

As far as I have been able to determine the earliest version of SE & CR coach livery was the dark red as per the shade used by Bachmann on their 60ft Birdcage Stock. This itself was a continuation of the SER coach colour. There were some experiments with dark red lower half and varnished teak upper half, but that was not adopted. Around 1914/6 a lighter shade of red was observed on some stock, this would principally have been applied to new built and main line stock. So in effect the Bachmann coaches may have appeared from new in this ? (More scope for Bachmann to do another run).

It is most unlikely that any 4 wheeled stock would have been repainted in the lighter red as it would have been due for withdrawal, and I doubt if any 6 wheeled stock would have got it, but there might have been a few exceptions.

Then from around 1917, the dark brown colour was adopted. This can be replicated using Brazil Brown paint from Halfords as identified by AVS 1998 of this parish.

I do not think I will be buying the Hattons versions of the SE & CR 4/6 wheeled stock as they appear to be insisting on using this brighter shade of red.

The Precision shade for the dark red is a good match. I wish that they did the Coach Brown, Loco Battleship Grey and Wainwright Wagon Lead Grey as well. (I use their Mk 1 Coach Roof Grey for Maroon Coaches only for this wagon colour).

 

All the best

Ray

Edited by wainwright1
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

Hi Tom.

 

Don't start me off again.

As far as I have been able to determine the earliest version of SE & CR coach livery was the dark red as per the shade used by Bachmann on their 60ft Birdcage Stock. This itself was a continuation of the SER coach colour. There were some experiments with dark red lower half and varnished teak upper half, but that was not adopted. Around 1914/6 a lighter shade of red was observed on some stock, this would principally have been applied to new built and main line stock. So in effect the Bachmann coaches may have appeared from new in this ? (More scope for Bachmann to do another run).

It is most unlikely that any 4 wheeled stock would have been repainted in the lighter red as it would have been due for withdrawal, and I doubt if any 6 wheeled stock would have got it, but there might have been a few exceptions.

Then from around 1917, the dark brown colour was adopted. This can be replicated using Brazil Brown paint from Halfords as identified by AVS 1998 of this parish.

I do not think I will be buying the Hattons versions of the SE & CR 4/6 wheeled stock as they appear to be insisting on using this brighter shade of red.

The Precision shade for the dark red is a good match. I wish that they did the Coach Brown, Loco Battleship Grey and Wainwright Wagon Lead Grey as well. (I use their Mk 1 Coach Roof Grey for Marron Coaches only for this wagon colour).

 

All the best

Ray

 

Hi Ray,

 

From what I can work out, the red/teak livery was a sort of half-repaint of LCDR stock, which my 4-wheeler is, but I don't fancy trying to replicate the teak!

 

I like Humbrol 67 (Tank Grey) for the wartime grey locos - some would say it's a bit dark, but most sources say that colour aged to almost black, so I think it's a good imitation of 'clean, but not brand new'. 

 

I think I prefer VW Urano Grey for the later wagons, but I'm still undecided on what the earlier shade should be - some photos seem to show it being very dark, but some written sources imply it was lighter than the later shade. Jury's still out on that one!

  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Tom.

 

Further note on the original SE & CR coach red.

The original proprietor of Precision Paints, Bob Shepheard, actually amended the shade to make it darker after consulting with the South Eastern and Chatham Railway Society. So I think that it is fairly authoritative.

 

All the best

Ray

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Over the weekend I had a go at a Peckett B2 to B1 conversion. It won't be perfectly accurate but I'm pretty pleased with it! Modifications include:

- replacement cab (with new handrails)

- replacement bufferbeams and buffers (wooden beams in place of steel)

- curved tank front handrail

- new chimney

- additional toolboxes

- will get replacement cab steps at some point, but not done yet

 

IMG_20210816_084542.jpg.1f93140b2d45e2542bed5ce89f65d8fb.jpg

 

IMG_20210816_084556.jpg.d1bb1d7dcfa4c2ceff64ad03aedaccf4.jpg

 

IMG_20210816_084622.jpg.064dfa677db8c1f9c4874571bc2c1aec.jpg

  • Like 10
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
  • Round of applause 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 14/08/2021 at 13:10, wainwright1 said:

Hi Tom.

 

Don't start me off again.

As far as I have been able to determine the earliest version of SE & CR coach livery was the dark red as per the shade used by Bachmann on their 60ft Birdcage Stock. This itself was a continuation of the SER coach colour. There were some experiments with dark red lower half and varnished teak upper half, but that was not adopted. Around 1914/6 a lighter shade of red was observed on some stock, this would principally have been applied to new built and main line stock. So in effect the Bachmann coaches may have appeared from new in this ? (More scope for Bachmann to do another run).

It is most unlikely that any 4 wheeled stock would have been repainted in the lighter red as it would have been due for withdrawal, and I doubt if any 6 wheeled stock would have got it, but there might have been a few exceptions.

Then from around 1917, the dark brown colour was adopted. This can be replicated using Brazil Brown paint from Halfords as identified by AVS 1998 of this parish.

I do not think I will be buying the Hattons versions of the SE & CR 4/6 wheeled stock as they appear to be insisting on using this brighter shade of red.

The Precision shade for the dark red is a good match. I wish that they did the Coach Brown, Loco Battleship Grey and Wainwright Wagon Lead Grey as well. (I use their Mk 1 Coach Roof Grey for Maroon Coaches only for this wagon colour).

 

All the best

Ray

Further to what I said.

That would be Vauxhall Brazil Brown for the dark brown livery.

 

All the best

Ray

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

So... which do we prefer?

 

IMG_20210830_120854.jpg.3d9d31feac76cecf4f6cedd5176a9730.jpg

 

It's beginning to look like I'll have to fill in the rest of this rake - which begs the question, what formation to use? I'm going to aim for a 4-car rake, which may be a bit short to be prototypical but I have limited layout space and construction time. So what do I put in the middle? I have drawings for the following:

 

5comp 2nd

Family saloon

2nd class saloon

4comp 1st

 

I think there would have been a 5comp 3rd to a similar design too, but I don't have drawings for that. I'm also considering a 4comp 1st/2nd composite. The brakes are both three compartments, one second (the one with more lighting) and one third. So I need to somehow balance the right amount of 1st, 2nd and 3rd class with those options!

 

I've realised I may end up with a bit too much coaching stock after this exercise, so I've cancelled my Hattons' Genesis pre-order - these ex-LCDR coaches won't be as well finished, but I think the colour and the style will be more accurate, so I'll save myself the money.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TurboSnail said:

So... which do we prefer?

 

IMG_20210830_120854.jpg.3d9d31feac76cecf4f6cedd5176a9730.jpg

 

It's beginning to look like I'll have to fill in the rest of this rake - which begs the question, what formation to use? I'm going to aim for a 4-car rake, which may be a bit short to be prototypical but I have limited layout space and construction time. So what do I put in the middle? I have drawings for the following:

 

5comp 2nd

Family saloon

2nd class saloon

4comp 1st

 

I think there would have been a 5comp 3rd to a similar design too, but I don't have drawings for that. I'm also considering a 4comp 1st/2nd composite. The brakes are both three compartments, one second (the one with more lighting) and one third. So I need to somehow balance the right amount of 1st, 2nd and 3rd class with those options!

 

I've realised I may end up with a bit too much coaching stock after this exercise, so I've cancelled my Hattons' Genesis pre-order - these ex-LCDR coaches won't be as well finished, but I think the colour and the style will be more accurate, so I'll save myself the money.

Hi Tom.

 

have you got a copy of Mike King's drawings, I think that he does one for the 4 wheelers.

 

You are getting me tempted here, I might need a rake, although they are slightly too early for my period. I am sure that they could turn up from somewhere. A really old hop pickers train (for really old hop pickers !)

 

Keep up the good work.

All the best

Ray

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

have you got a copy of Mike King's drawings, I think that he does one for the 4 wheelers.

 

I haven't, no. My library is somewhat understocked, especially with respect to carriages as I didn't think I'd be interested in making any, I don't have a layout big enough to run them for a start. I don't know what changed, but I guess I am making them anyway! 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...