TSD's Workbench - SECR and Industrial modelling

[Edwardian]

Apparently the original release was more powerful.  Let us know how you find it.

 

I have long held the view that the Oxford Dean Goods is a better starting point for an O/O1 or a LNWR 0-6-0 than it is for a Dean Goods!

[TurboSnail]

24 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I have long held the view that the Oxford Dean Goods is a better starting point for an O/O1 or a LNWR 0-6-0 than it is for a Dean Goods!

 

Which LNWR 0-6-0 would that be?

[Compound2632]

Let not Matthew Stirling's Class C 0-6-0s for the Hull & Barnsley be forgotten, dimensionally and visually very close to his uncle's Class O and his father's Class J6. The Class C engines in fact had the 7'3" + 8'3" of the Dean Goods.

[Compound2632]

Just now, TurboSnail said:

 

Which LNWR 0-6-0 would that be?

 

DX / SDX; Cauliflower (18" Goods) - and hence Watford Tank (18" Tank).

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, TurboSnail said:

 

Which LNWR 0-6-0 would that be?

 

Any of 'em!

 

DX, Special DX, Cauliflower

 

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

Let not Matthew Stirling's Class C 0-6-0s for the Hull & Barnsley be forgotten, dimensionally and visually very close to his uncle's Class O and his father's Class J6. The Class C engines in fact had the 7'3" + 8'3" of the Dean Goods.

 

Good point.  I have never expected to represent the H&B, but, yes, they should not be left out.

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Any of 'em!

 

 

Not Coal Engine, Coal Tank, Special Tank, as the wheels are significantly smaller and usually with H-section spokes.

[Edwardian]

Snap!  My interweb froze, but I see you have listed the same 3 LNW locos.

 

I would dearly love onme of each!

 

The Cauliflower, 'Express Goods' were also at home on passenger turns. 

[Edwardian]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

Not Coal Engine, Coal Tank, Special Tank, as the wheels are significantly smaller and usually with H-section spokes.

 

Which is why I didn't list 'em! Tiny 4'3" wheels, IIRC, but Tom might want to see what the Bachmann Coal Tank chassis looks like.

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I would dearly love one of each!

 

 

A proper LNWR layout c. 1902 would have at least five DXs, five SDXs, five Coal Engines, three Cauliflowers, and one Class A 0-8-0...

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A proper LNWR layout c. 1902 would have at least five DXs, five SDXs, five Coal Engines, three Cauliflowers, and one Class A 0-8-0...

 

Depends how much goods stock you want to build.  I am considering revamping Butley Town at some point with a GW-LNW Joint Line flavour.  A couple of 15-20 wagon goods trains from each company is probably as far as I'd want to go!

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Depends how much goods stock you want to build.  I am considering revamping Butley Town at some point with a GW-LNW Joint Line flavour.  A couple of 15-20 wagon goods trains from each company is probably as far as I'd want to go!

 

Lots, surely? 

 

But of course your cross-examination exposes the weak point of my statement. This vast preponderance of 0-6-0s wouldn't be quite so evident to a lineside observer, as the daily mileages being accumulated by these engines would be much lower than for even quite lowly passenger types. They'd be spending a lot of time shunting, standing in lay-by sidings, and pottering around on local trip jobs in the big urban centres. The timetable for your secondary or tertiary country line might only call for the couple of goods trains you mention (one of which might be a through mineral train, the other the stopping goods) but several passenger trains (or the same couple going to and fro).

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Lots, surely? 

 

But of course your cross-examination exposes the weak point of my statement. This vast preponderance of 0-6-0s wouldn't be quite so evident to a lineside observer, as the daily mileages being accumulated by these engines would be much lower than for even quite lowly passenger types. They'd be spending a lot of time shunting, standing in lay-by sidings, and pottering around on local trip jobs in the big urban centres. The timetable for your secondary or tertiary country line might only call for the couple of goods trains you mention (one of which might be a through mineral train, the other the stopping goods) but several passenger trains (or the same couple going to and fro).

 

For a secondary mainline, I'd assume a daily trip goods making its very leisurely way, shunting at each wayside station, and then a couple of through goods.  For passenger, perhaps an Up and Down express, certainly a a couple of semi-fasts and then stoppers shuttling back and forth all day. 

[TurboSnail]

Oh dear, I think I might have to become an LNWR modeller! Shame they never crossed paths with the SECR. I've already got a 4ft shunter on the go...

[webbcompound]

1 hour ago, TurboSnail said:

Oh dear, I think I might have to become an LNWR modeller! Shame they never crossed paths with the SECR.

 

What about the Sunny South Express then? And fictionally Clarendon https://www.scalefour.org/layouts/exhibclarendon.html

[TurboSnail]

7 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

 

What about the Sunny South Express then?

 

I've never heard of that, any more info? I have at least one layout set in a South coast destination, so could be useful

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, TurboSnail said:

 

I've never heard of that, any more info? I have at least one layout set in a South coast destination, so could be useful

 

That's because you're behind in your reading ....

 

 

[Compound2632]

But for the Sunny South you need a 12-wheel Wolverton diner - one of the more challenging types of carriage around; ideal for a 3D print, I'd have thought...

[webbcompound]

"The Sunny South Express leaves every week day from Liverpool Lime Street at 10.25, and Manchester London Road at 10.40, for Brighton, Eastbourne, Ramsgate, Margate etc"  Seen here at Rugby. Careful examination shows the Liverpool section at the front (first three carriages) and the Manchester section at the back (last four carriages) loco is Price of Wales Class 1670. Just befoore the grouping. i think the last carriage is a brake tricomposite which would work through to the furthest destination.

Edited October 28, 2019 by webbcompound

[TurboSnail]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

That's because you're behind in your reading ....

 

 

 

"Yes Sir, I'll stay behind and catch up on my homework Sir"

 

I'll have to look into cross-region trains a little more, could be a useful excuse to run an even more eclectic mix of whatever I want! 

[Edwardian]

On 28/10/2019 at 17:23, TurboSnail said:

 

"Yes Sir, I'll stay behind and catch up on my homework Sir"

 

I'll have to look into cross-region trains a little more, could be a useful excuse to run an even more eclectic mix of whatever I want! 

 

It's all about being prototypical.  If you can do that, you don't need a prototype.

 

If you, say, model a South Coast resort served by the SE&CR rather than the Brighton, you can postulate through coaches or entire trains from the Midlands and the North.  These could be, say, LNWR, MR, NER etc. If you have a might-have-been place, you can have a might-have-been service to it. 

 

People here will be able to help fill in gaps and consider details such as likely coach diagrams and formations, dual-fitted stock where necessary, loading gauges etc.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Edwardian

[TurboSnail]

Now here's a question - I'm looking to get some of Hattons' Genesis coaches, but umming and erring over what sort of set to go for, hence turning to the wisdom of RMweb for help? 

 

This set would be used for local services on a layout set between Folkestone and Dover, sometime between 1900-1914. The loco would be a Second Sondes, unrebuilt F Class, R Class or similar. I may or may not have a brake van to add to the back of the set. I have an etched brass kit for an LCDR 4w brake third that could be used.

 

Budget limits me to three, maybe four coaches, so what sort of set composition should I be looking at? 

Edited October 31, 2019 by TurboSnail
LCDR brake possibility

[webbcompound]

1 hour ago, TurboSnail said:

 

Budget limits me to three, maybe four coaches, so what sort of set composition should I be looking at? 

 

BT/T/F/BT would seem to be a typical generic  sort of set, so that would be three coaches to add to your etched kit

 

[Dana Ashdown]

I would suggest 6-wheel coaches, as I believe most of the 4-wheeled coaches were either withdrawn or put into London suburban services by about 1910. A PBV is an alternative to a BT, and don't forget that the SECR had 2nd Class at this time.

 

We'll all look forward to seeing your LCDR brake 3rd completed! I think several members have noted that the LCDR stock was better built, and lasted longer than the SER's equivalent.

 

Dana

[Edwardian]

I assembled a set of Ratio GWR 4-wheelers to form the archetypal branch train: 3-compt. Van Third, Third, !st/2nd Composite, 2-compt. Van Third. I have done the same with GER 4-wheeler kits. I plan asimilar formation for the WNR's Achingham branch train.

 

Notwithstanding that, I find that I seldom come across this idealised branch formation in practice.

 

Even on such short distance trains, luggage/parcels accommodation often seems to have been more important than extra compartments. A possible 3-coach train suggests itself; Brake Third, First/Third Composite, Luggage Brake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

I looked at S&DJR passenger train formations c. 1890 - 1910 recently. A standard set of five 6-wheelers was, brake / third / first / third / brake - plenty of space for non-human passenger-rated traffic; I begin to suspect that that generated more revenue than the human traffic.