CarriageShed Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 When you say Drummond, is that T9, D15, C8, K10, L12 or one of the many others? I've got enough projects on for now, but maybe one for the future. In N gauge terms we already have the Union Mills T9, and the chassis is a good basis for any 3D bodies even if the driving wheels may be a little big for some of the other Drummond variants. I'm already planning to hack the UM T9 into a K10 and L11 with some N Brass Locos parts to replace the removed bits (one of my most ambitious projects to date). Those are both low-boiler types so it's not too much of a change, but the higher boiler types are unachievable except by scratchbuilding or 3D printing: S11 (the T9 wheels are a little large but not especially so if you're not a rivet-counter type - for me it's more about the right feeling than 100% scale accuracy), L12 (same driving wheels as the T9, so very appropriate), possibly a D15, and a C8 (which had a slightly shorter wheelbase than a T9 but again it's not a massive difference). Colin at Union Mills told me to ring again in January about ordering a couple of T9s for my K10 and L11 projects, so that'll keep me busy for much of 2019, but it'll certainly be comforting to know that there could be further Drummond 4-4-0 projects to take up my time later in the year, or even next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarriageShed Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) If you're very good, you might get this: Abbotsford.jpg Wrong Drummond period, but quite possibly 'hackable'! How can anyone not love Drummond 4-4-0s? Edited January 1, 2019 by CarriageShed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2019 Wrong Drummond period, but quite possibly 'hackable'! How can anyone not love Drummond 4-4-40s? This would be the right period: Or is that wrong Drummond, period? But the "Abbotsford" class was Dugald the Great's principal contribution to British locomotive design - the original Scottish 4-4-0, the ultimate flowering of which was in the hands of McIntosh and Pickersgill, as well as little brother Peter. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarriageShed Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 The Scottish Dugald period in its entirety is wrong for me specifically (far too northern for the LSWR), as is the entire Peter period unless his locos can be re-used for LSWR types. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just gently teasing - not everyone models the LSWR! In his Eastleigh phase, Drummond wandered off into unsatisfactory experiments such as the firebox water tubes and then his 4-6-0s... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarriageShed Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just gently teasing - not everyone models the LSWR! In his Eastleigh phase, Drummond wandered off into unsatisfactory experiments such as the firebox water tubes and then his 4-6-0s... My dream one day is to have a Urie or Maunsell-rebuilt Paddlebox 4-6-0, although I may need to develop some scratchbuilding skills first! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2019 All of those 4-4-0s are lovely, it's nice to trace the stylings of an engineer through their products. The thing is, Dugald Drummond got it spectacularly right first time. So long as he kept returning to that first success, he was OK - vide the T9. He understood the physics of the steam engine and designed an engine with large cylinders - steam had to be used efficiently, i.e. expansively with short cut-off. You couldn't thrash the engine without rapidly running out of steam. He had an uphill struggle convincing LSWR drivers of this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 1, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) Just gently teasing - not everyone models the LSWR! In his Eastleigh phase, Drummond wandered off into unsatisfactory experiments such as the firebox water tubes and then his 4-6-0s... The thing is, Dugald Drummond got it spectacularly right first time. So long as he kept returning to that first success, he was OK - vide the T9. He understood the physics of the steam engine and designed an engine with large cylinders - steam had to be used efficiently, i.e. expansively with short cut-off. You couldn't thrash the engine without rapidly running out of steam. He had an uphill struggle convincing LSWR drivers of this. His final design, a 4-4-0, was also pretty good. Edit: LSWR D15. Like a lot of locomotive engineers who produced good 4-4-0s, his 4-6-0s seemed somewhat flawed by thinking that all he needed to do was stretch a 4-4-0, whereas a re-think was a better option. The possible exception to this is the rather squashed 1500 class of the GER, LNER B12, which was effectively a big 4-4-0 with an extra driving axle to reduce the axle load and increase adhesion. As Robinson realised when offered the LNER CME role, when moving up a level in locomotive design a new man with fresh views is est for the job - hence he recommended Gresley, who let’s face, had a knack of designing effective big engines whilst simultaneously being open minded enough to be able to improve them when he saw the value of longer valve travel demonstrated by the GWR Castles. Edited January 1, 2019 by Regularity 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarriageShed Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 It's one everyone on the Southern needs, an ugly oddity I'd rather like a T14 myself, but I don't imagine they came anywhere near Kent or East Sussex, even on cross-country workings... Good luck with the venture, though! All of those 4-4-0s are lovely, it's nice to trace the stylings of an engineer through their products. I'm taking medication for my Paddlebox obsession For the most part the T14s were shedded at Nine Elms. In the Grouping or post-war period it would be easy enough to have one temporarily 'borrowed' by Stewarts Lane for a few otherwise unrecorded trips down into Kent... I seem to have started something here. Apologies for hijacking the thread! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 A Happy New Year to all my digital friends on RMWeb! A new year brings new projects... A slightly different approach is being trialled with a couple of new loco projects, some internet points are up for grabs for those who can identify the 2 locos from the screenshots below (beware: one of them is a bit of a trick question...). As is usual for a student in January, I will be spending the next month revising and furiously typing reports as I have deadlines and exams throughout the month. This may slow my modelling down a bit, but I'll be sure to keep going and posting progress as it happens. I am also hoping to have the F class (and variants) and the Neilson 2-2-2t finished by the end of the month - ambitious, but hopefully achievable. I did threaten to do a livestream of some of the new models but that may have to wait until after exams. I couldn't do it over Christmas as the WiFi in my parent's house doesn't reach the workbench! Many thanks to those that have encouraged me so far, it's the first year I've really done any regular posting on forums, which has got me back into modelling after a bit of a dry spell. So here's to a fun, train-themed 2019 for all q1.JPG q2.JPG A New Minnie Adventure (if anyone remembers that ad.)? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 I seem to have started something here. Apologies for hijacking the thread! Any additional commentaries welcome, the background is often as much fun as the modelling! A New Minnie Adventure (if anyone remembers that ad.)? I will neither confirm not deny such allegations... This one won't save you from Martians though. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 Some roofing lead arrived this morning in the hands of a rather baffled courier, who had initially thought it was stuck to the floor of his van. It's surprisingly heavy! Another packet arrived this afternoon from China, marked 'Health Care', also containing lead. That's one heck of a translation error. Anyway, now I have to try and dismantle the Neilson without breaking anything. Wish me luck... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 It's gone wrong. Horribly, HORRIBLY wrong. I don't even want to post pictures of what's happened. Suffice to say I'm now trying to track down that spare bodyshell I had. I'm banning myself from any further work until I've calmed down a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 It's gone wrong. Horribly, HORRIBLY wrong. I don't even want to post pictures of what's happened. Suffice to say I'm now trying to track down that spare bodyshell I had. I'm banning myself from any further work until I've calmed down a bit. I am sorry to hear that. Perhaps go for a long walk and model something else on your return. And, perhaps, don't return to the Single until you can contemplate the wreckage with cool indifference. We all have such moments I suspect (I know I do), and they are not great. I am sorry, but hang on in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 With fresh eyes the next morning, it's not the end of the world. The Neilson body is not unrepairable, but I've come to the conclusion that it is not possible to remove the existing weights, which means that it will never be heavy enough to run properly. If nothing else, I have newfound respect for the strength of PVA. So I've dug out a replacement bodyshell I had as the printers remade it for me due to multiple errors on the first one. The broken body was actually made from that reject print, which took a lot of sanding and filing, so at least this time it should take less work to bring it up to standard. I'm filling my days with revision and report writing at the moment, but I should be able to make a start on it tonight. We don't simply give up when encountering setbacks! If I'm rebuilding it, I'm determined to do a better job this time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 Quick update: the new Neilson bodyshell is coming along nicely, although I broke a couple of bits of it trying to stuff more lead in. Nothing that can't be fixed with a bit of filler though. It's already heavier than the old one, and there are still a few more little spaces I can fill with lead. Whether it will be heavy enough remains to be seen, but I'm more confident with this than I was with the old one. I also need to decide what I'm doing with the chassis, I think I want to leave both the trailing wheelsets sprung so I can keep pickups on all wheels, but if necessary I could block one wheelset off with plasticard to make a 4-wheel chassis (the Ruston method), but then I'd have to lose the other pickup. And I don't clean my track very often. Onwards and upwards! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Quick update: the new Neilson bodyshell is coming along nicely, although I broke a couple of bits of it trying to stuff more lead in. Nothing that can't be fixed with a bit of filler though. It's already heavier than the old one, and there are still a few more little spaces I can fill with lead. Whether it will be heavy enough remains to be seen, but I'm more confident with this than I was with the old one. I also need to decide what I'm doing with the chassis, I think I want to leave both the trailing wheelsets sprung so I can keep pickups on all wheels, but if necessary I could block one wheelset off with plasticard to make a 4-wheel chassis (the Ruston method), but then I'd have to lose the other pickup. And I don't clean my track very often. Onwards and upwards! Hi TS, You are not the only one ! Have a read of post 11, I was in a similar category yesterday; http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140490-what-is-on-the-bench-was-previously-in-my-head/ Post 12 for paint traumas also. Gibbo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 I have the Neilson working! Almost. The trailing wheels still aren't 100% free rotating, but the driving wheels grip nicely now. I tried it as a solid 4-wheel chassis plus trailing wheels, but it took too much weight off the drivers, so it's back to being sprung at both ends, just need to balance that carefully to get the wheels rotating. But I feel like that's the hardest part out of the way now. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) Here we go then, Neilson working properly at last! A boiler full of lead and some modification to the pickups mean we have a loco running with enough traction, sprung front and rear axles and pickups on all wheels. I have a few repairs to the body to make, plus re-painting etc., but I'm now confident that the Neilson chassis concept works. In this video, I'm testing it with a fixed voltage across the tracks (1.5V, then I turned it up to 5V, then back down to 1.5V) as I don't have a proper controller with me at my student house - the stuttering is me not holding the wires on the track properly. The only thing I'm not sure about at the moment is haulage capacity (not much, probably) but I don't have any wagons to hand to test it. Since it works, I shall probably be releasing it for sale very soon! 'Kits' will come with the body and chassis prints, plus the motor and gears. It's very easy to build, but quite hard to set up and balance so maybe not one for the absolute novice, but I've now proved you can have something that works nicely from it. Pricing still to be decided once I've done the maths, but hopefully I can keep it under £50. Edited January 8, 2019 by TurboSnail 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 I thought I didn't have any wagons with me, but then I found a stash of old projects that I should probably get around to finishing. The Neilson copes fine with this little test train, which is almost as long as the test track! It's also ok with very shallow slopes. In reality, a train for this loco would probably have been 1 or 2 four-wheel coaches or three wagons, and I think it will haul those just fine. As that was the main hurdle before declaring this loco ready for sale, if you want to register interest drop me a PM or email ts3dmodels@gmail.com. I have a few final minor modifications to make to the CAD drawings then it will be ready to order. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Here we go then, Neilson working properly at last! A boiler full of lead and some modification to the pickups mean we have a loco running with enough traction, sprung front and rear axles and pickups on all wheels. I have a few repairs to the body to make, plus re-painting etc., but I'm now confident that the Neilson chassis concept works. In this video, I'm testing it with a fixed voltage across the tracks (1.5V, then I turned it up to 5V, then back down to 1.5V) as I don't have a proper controller with me at my student house - the stuttering is me not holding the wires on the track properly. The only thing I'm not sure about at the moment is haulage capacity (not much, probably) but I don't have any wagons to hand to test it. Since it works, I shall probably be releasing it for sale very soon! 'Kits' will come with the body and chassis prints, plus the motor and gears. It's very easy to build, but quite hard to set up and balance so maybe not one for the absolute novice, but I've now proved you can have something that works nicely from it. Pricing still to be decided once I've done the maths, but hopefully I can keep it under £50. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) In reality, a train for this loco would probably have been 1 or 2 four-wheel coaches or three wagons, and I think it will haul those just fine. The DW&WR had some mid-Victorian 2-2-2WTs that were used on their suburban passenger service into Dublin. I imagine loads were more than one or two carriages - though all 4 or 6-wheelers of some antiquity: Even more challenging to find somewhere to put the lead sheet! Edited January 9, 2019 by Compound2632 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 The DW&WR had some mid-Victorian 2-2-2WTs that were used on their suburban passenger service into Dublin. I imagine loads were more than one or two carriages - though all 4 or 6-wheelers of some antiquity: Even more challenging to find somewhere to put the lead sheet! Great loco. Great name! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Very nice work, Id certainly like to build one, as for how much the prototypes could pull, I would think a lot more than people give them credit for, lnwr sharpie saddle tanks could take at least 6 4 wheelers And the ex furness 2-2-2wts on the wcpr could handle those large American bogie vehicles, heres another from the old country 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 Great loco. Great name!Agreed.Apparently not fitted with a whistle so much as a wail... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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