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These I understand were also known as class 1901’s that all were originally built as saddle tanks before majority were rebuilt as pannier tanks?

 

What I was interested in was if there was any “rule” to which ones did not have the “H” section driving wheels and remained as saddle tanks until at least the mid to late 1920’s ?

 

2007 and 1925 I read survived until BR with saddle tanks

 

Almost all the photos I can see show engines with “H” section wheels

 

Were any fitted for use with auto coaches?

 

Any suggestions where I can find answers to these queries

Edited by rprodgers
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Some info on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_850_Class

 

You may have come across this already.

Nigel

Yes thanks Nigel I had read this .

From what I can gather now the class 1901 locos became part of the 850 class.

 

I have a Gibson kit for the saddle tank version that needs to be built.

The wheels supplied are not the “H” section spokes and looking at all the photos I can see of these locos in the 1920s show “H” section spokes. (A picture of 997 in Edwardian times ? is an exception)

 

Re the pannier tanks it seems that some were fitted to some class members as early as 1911 whereas for a number it was the late 1920’s and the two 2007 and 1925 didn’t.

 

Presumably Swindon had a serviceable/ refurbished saddle tanks they gradually worked there way through until they were worn out?

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The details on this are too substantial to repeat here, so I've sent you a PM with the RCTS Vol 5 pages on the 850 class. That should provide you with answers to most of your questions.

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The details on this are too substantial to repeat here, so I've sent you a PM with the RCTS Vol 5 pages on the 850 class. That should provide you with answers to most of your questions.

Thanks Mikkel for your time and trouble, your pm is most helpful

 

R

Edited by rprodgers
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I believe 24 of the 36 850s were built with normal spokes. The GWR did carry exchange wheels for certain classes, so its possible that the different styles of wheel rotated round the fleet to an extent. I haven't ever noticed spare wheels for 850s being ordered, but I haven't examined all the records, and in any case not all survive.

I've heard that tanks tended to stay with boilers, so one may guess that when a boiler was scrapped the tanks would tend to go as well.

It was a general trend amongst the pre grouping tanks that classes tended to merge. If new parts were fitted they tended to be replaced with the latest specification, not the original design.

Edited by JimC
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  • 7 months later...
On 13/02/2019 at 21:19, SixWheeler said:

I hope nobody minds me jumping in - are there any versions of this available in N gauge...?

In short "No".  The 850 (and 2021) classes of saddle/pannier tanks would be a pretty niche market being pretty small antiquated engines.  At some point I intend to scratch build an 850 saddle tank in 2FS.  More common 0-6-0 panniers are available in N gauge though (57xx, 8750 class, 64xx). 

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On 15/02/2019 at 16:01, Steamport Southport said:

Didn't Langley do a 27XX, 57XX, 8750 and a GWR saddle tank back in the day? The latter might not have been Langley though.

 

The only one currently available is the 97XX. probably not their best.

 

http://www.langley-models.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Locomotive_Body_kits_73.html

 

 

Jason

 

Thameside did some whitemetal panniers. I'm not sure whether they are still available. The ones listed above are all large 0-6-0T iirc and the 850 a small type. Some Langley have odd dimensions the 2251 being particularly fat/wide.

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On 15/02/2019 at 15:48, Ian Smith said:

In short "No".  The 850 (and 2021) classes of saddle/pannier tanks would be a pretty niche market being pretty small antiquated engines.  At some point I intend to scratch build an 850 saddle tank in 2FS.  More common 0-6-0 panniers are available in N gauge though (57xx, 8750 class, 64xx). 

Actually the 2021 was a much more common loco on GWR branch lines than 57XX / 8750 and 64/74XX classes.   57XX were heavy shunters in GWR days and blue weight restriction so banned from most branches. 64XX were not really branch locos more mainline Aut engines and there were only about 40 74XX in GWR days.   The 57/8750 classes were cascaded to branches through the 1950s as they lost their shunting work to diesels and became Yellow route locos under BR,   The 850s and 2021 classes were very small, their running plates are at virtually buffer height, though the 2021 is virtually the same length as the 57XX everything is much lower due partly to wheels 6" smaller.

The 850s are a foot shorter than the 2021 due to a shorter firebox and a foot shorter wheelbase between centre and rear axles.   

Both classes were main line goods engines when new and 2021's  had main line express passenger duties, Terriers they were not, 60MPH locos despite 4ft wheels.

2021's were a standard class until the 1600s replaced them and togeter with the Metros represent a huge gap in loco power for modellers of many GWR branches.   The Hornby 2721 is a loco virtually as heavy and big as a 57XX, again not really a branch loco.  

Apart from a very few dedicated shunters 1366 etc all GWR Panniers were mixed traffic locos with 60mph  capability.   The vast majority of contemporary 0-6-0Ts on other railways were shunters without balanced wheels so uncomfortable over about 30mph and many lacked vacuum brakes so could not even shunt passenger stock effectively, even some LNER J50s lacked balanced wheels

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16 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Actually the 2021 was a much more common loco on GWR branch lines than 57XX / 8750 and 64/74XX classes. 

 

Agreed.

There were 36 850s, 122 1901s, and 140 2021s built. 43 of the 850s/1901s survived to BR, and the vast majority of the 2021s.  Some survived until the very late 50s, and a couple, sold into industry, until the 1960s. A good number of 2021s were autofitted at one time or another. Unlike the Collett classes the auto gear seems to have been added and removed from pre group classes as required.

 

Edited by JimC
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