Fleischmann 6152c Turntable stopped working

[john dew]

Earlier this year I installed a new Fleischmann 6152C turntable along with a Fleischmann 6915 DCC Control unit

 

The installation was successful and the TT and controller worked very well until last week when, while ballasting the the exit tracks, I clumsily knocked an open jar of ballast into the turntable well!

.

 

Having carefully removed all the debris I now find, perhaps not surprisingly, that the turntable no longer works using either the 6915 Control Unit or the more basic switch that came with the TT. The manual lever however can still be used to activate the motor and move the bridge. 

 

If I attempt to use either switch there is an audible click from the bridge but no actual movement.

 

Its beyond my level of competence to determine which component needs to be replaced and I would really appreciate any suggestions about how to go about diagnosing the source of the problem

 

Here is a shot of the underside of the bridge

 

 

 

 

On the right is a circuit board which is connected by the multi contact slip ring to the control unit.  The surface of the slip ring is quite scratched. I assume by the ballast but I dont really know because I removed the bridge for the first time after the accident. The circuit board is readily obtainable as a replacement.........any suggestions how I can establish if the slip ring surface is the problem?

 

On the left is the motor unit. As I understand it the bridge "steps" around the turntable as a result of the solenoid being activated (or de activated?) by the control unit.

 

The motor, when activated manually, turns the bridge smoothly. When the controller is used there is no movement but there is an audible click from the bridge..... multiple clicks if I select multiple steps rather than just one. This leads me to question if the solenoid is functioning correctly...........is there anyway to test this?

 

Lastly if the solenoid is faulty is it possible for an amateur like me to replace it..........the complete motor sub unit is expensive

 

Any advice would be much appreciated......obviously right now I am not a happy camper!

 

 

 

 

[daltonparva]

Hello. I have recently been playing with an n gauge Fleischman t/t, converting it to oo, and fitting a DCC decoder. The motor and relay assembly looks the same. Mine doesn't have the PCB affair, but that shouldn't matter to test the motor and relay. On the right hand side of your PCB you appear to have yellow, blue and black wires soldered to 3 tags. Apply a 12v DC output to the yellow and black tags, you should see the relay move, the long gray lever move to release the peg that is stopping the geared wheel moving, and the motor brush type contacts closing near the top right hand screw. These brush contacts supply power to one side of the motor through the blue wire, so whilst the relay is operating bridge the supply feed of the yellow wire to the blue wire. The other side of the motor is getting a feed through the black wire. If the motor works good, if not check for continuity through the blue wire and contacts. If that is OK but motor not working you may have to try dismantling the motor to see if it is jammed with grit

[yelrow]

hi, i would be talking to your house contents insurance company claiming for accidental damage. TT can then be replaced, or professional repairs paid for. john

[john dew]

Hello. I have recently been playing with an n gauge Fleischman t/t, converting it to oo, and fitting a DCC decoder. The motor and relay assembly looks the same. Mine doesn't have the PCB affair, but that shouldn't matter to test the motor and relay. On the right hand side of your PCB you appear to have yellow, blue and black wires soldered to 3 tags. Apply a 12v DC output to the yellow and black tags, you should see the relay move, the long gray lever move to release the peg that is stopping the geared wheel moving, and the motor brush type contacts closing near the top right hand screw. These brush contacts supply power to one side of the motor through the blue wire, so whilst the relay is operating bridge the supply feed of the yellow wire to the blue wire. The other side of the motor is getting a feed through the black wire. If the motor works good, if not check for continuity through the blue wire and contacts. If that is OK but motor not working you may have to try dismantling the motor to see if it is jammed with grit

Thank you.....thats exactly what I was hoping for.....I just wasnt sure which wires did what.

 

I am pretty confident the motor itself is ok because it works fine if the grey lever is manually depressed.......the click (but no movement) when the controller is used seemed to me to indicate the relay had failed......its morning here and I have to out.....I will check as you suggest later in the day and report back.

 

What are your thoughts on the scratched surface of the slip ring on the PCB component?

 

Thanks again

 

John

[john dew]

hi, i would be talking to your house contents insurance company claiming for accidental damage. TT can then be replaced, or professional repairs paid for. john

I am afraid I wouldnt get much after the deductible and I would lose my no claims bonus. Hopefully I can repair it once I identify the fault.

 

Thank you the suggestion though

 

Regards

 

John

Edited June 17, 2018 by john dew

[bgman]

Hi John,

 

Some years ago I was contemplating the purchase of this TT but never happened. Whilst modelling early German "stuff" I came across this video which I found of interest and may help ?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSDUSSwe46k

 

I hope that you are successful in sorting the problem.

 

Grahame

[daltonparva]

Thank you.....thats exactly what I was hoping for.....I just wasnt sure which wires did what.

 

I am pretty confident the motor itself is ok because it works fine if the grey lever is manually depressed.......the click (but no movement) when the controller is used seemed to me to indicate the relay had failed......its morning here and I have to out.....I will check as you suggest later in the day and report back.

 

What are your thoughts on the scratched surface of the slip ring on the PCB component?

 

Thanks again

 

John

Let me know how you get on with the above first.  The click you are hearing is probably the solenoid working (if it had failed you would hear nothing) and if this is the case  then the black and yellow connections are ok. Moving the gray lever manually just pulls the toothed gear wheel back from the wall of the turntable deck so that you can spin the deck in place. It has nothing to do with whether the motor is working or not. 

[john dew]

Hi John,

 

Some years ago I was contemplating the purchase of this TT but never happened. Whilst modelling early German "stuff" I came across this video which I found of interest and may help ?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSDUSSwe46k

 

I hope that you are successful in sorting the problem.

 

Grahame

Hi Grahame

 

Thank you for the video......its a slightly different model but it helped me understand the test Daltonparvae suggested.....I think we are getting there! When its working its a super piece of kit.

 

Kind regards

[john dew]

Hello. I have recently been playing with an n gauge Fleischman t/t, converting it to oo, and fitting a DCC decoder. The motor and relay assembly looks the same. Mine doesn't have the PCB affair, but that shouldn't matter to test the motor and relay. On the right hand side of your PCB you appear to have yellow, blue and black wires soldered to 3 tags. Apply a 12v DC output to the yellow and black tags, you should see the relay move, the long gray lever move to release the peg that is stopping the geared wheel moving, and the motor brush type contacts closing near the top right hand screw. These brush contacts supply power to one side of the motor through the blue wire, so whilst the relay is operating bridge the supply feed of the yellow wire to the blue wire. The other side of the motor is getting a feed through the black wire. If the motor works good, if not check for continuity through the blue wire and contacts. If that is OK but motor not working you may have to try dismantling the motor to see if it is jammed with grit

Fleischmann specified 14-18v AC so I used power from the transformer that I used to supply the TT when it was working......trust that is ok?

 

When I apply power to the Black and Yellow tags : The relay moves as does the lever and the contact closes but the solenoid ( I think) buzzes and continus to buzz. The motor does not turn.

 

If I apply power direct to the blue and black tags near the motor there is quieter buzzing sound (this time from the motor ) but no movement

 

I think the application of the lever may be different on my model. Pushed one way it disengages the big cog wheel. Pushed the other it closes the contacts. If the lever is depressed and immediately released the motor moves the bridge to the next track. If depressed and held the motor rotates the bridge until the lever is released when it stops at the next track. I am still able to do that.......hence my comment the motor is working.........

 

 

......now I am confused

[daltonparva]

The lever is the same, ignore that. All little motors work on 12v dc, something in the switch or on the pcb will be rectifying the 16v ac to 12v dc.  Applying ac to the motor direct will make it buzz but not work. You need 12v dc. Follow my instructions, black and yellow will make the relay click as it closes but not buzz, you need to maintain these contacts to keep the relay closed. Bridge the yellow to the blue without releasing the relay, and the motor should work. It will either work and turn the toothed wheel (good) or you might hear the motor turning but not the wheel (probably loose worm on motor shaft)  or you might hear the motor buzz (power to the motor but something jamming the gear train), or you might hear nothing (bad continuity along blue wire or dead motor). If its one of the three bad options you will have to dismantle the motor housing to look. It's not difficult but a bit fiddly. If you look at the video on youtube that BGMAN posted, you should see another video alongside by the same chap (Hovermotion - Fleischmann turntable motor problem solved) who dismantled one 'cos his motor was turning but not the deck. That will take you through it.

Edited June 18, 2018 by daltonparva

[john dew]

Thanks again.......I did say I was lacking in electro mechanical knowledge.

 

I will check as instructed with 12 v DC...........

 

I have just looked at the motor assembly video.....I sure hope I dont have to do that!

 

Cheers

[john dew]

Bad news

 

With 12v DC the relay works exactly as you described....with the contact maintained and the relay closed I connected the yellow to the blue.....no movement or sound from the motor.....nothing

 

I will try and check the blue wire continuity but it looks as though I have to dismantle the motor housing

[daltonparva]

Keep one wire to the black, pull the long gray lever back by hand that is connected to the top of the relay, and touch the other wire to the brush contacts that will now have closed together. If still nothing it would appear to be the motor, and you'll have to start dismantling! Have faith, you can do it.

[john dew]

Well I had faith and I have now stripped and assembled a Fleischmann 6152C turntable motor sub assembly.....wow!

 

There were bits of ballast clogging the worm gear preventing the motor from turning. Once they were all cleaned out and the sub unit re- assembled....with the help and advice of two dogs and Mrs D.......the relay works and the motor turns the cog wheel.

 

When returned to the turntable the lever manualy activates the motor and the bridge turns......all good news.....the bad news is that it still will not respond to the controller. I will do a few more tests tomorrow but I suspect the scratches on the slip ring.

 

Thank you again for your advice and encouragement....I doubt if I would have got this far without your help

 

John

[daltonparva]

Really pleased to hear things are going better. Try and sort the final problem out using the basic switch first, rather than your DCC controller. A jammed motor would be less likely to damage a basic switch, but I can't speak for the sensitivities of the DCC thingy. Let me know how stage 2 of the operation progresses. Regards.

[john dew]

I have tried with the basic switch but the same result just a click

 

The contact from either switch is to the slip ring which has been scratched by the ballast

 

 

Not a great photo but you can see some of the marks

 

Regards

 

John

Edited June 19, 2018 by john dew

[daltonparva]

Now you know (I presume) that everything works from the 3 tags on the PCB which is where we started, the next thing is to prove everything is OK from the slip rings onwards, ie that the PCB is OK. Put a bulb or motor into one wire of your 12v supply so you can use it as a circuit tester, so you can work out which of the 5 slip rings corresponds to the yellow black and blue wires. Put one wire to one rail which you can see on your first photo and test each of the slip rings with the other wire to see which corresponds. Repeat with the other rail and then you can ignore those 2 rings. The 3 rings left connect to the 3 colours and we can presume the black and yellow are OK as you can hear the relay clicking. Test which rings are those between the rings and the tags, the remaining ring is the blue, when you know which rings correspond to the colours do what you did originally to make the relay work first then the motor but from the rings not the tags. If everything works you know the deck is all fine, if not there is a fault with the PCB, which the stuck motor might have damaged.

PS. Clean the rings up with some meths or track cleaning fluid.

Edited June 19, 2018 by daltonparva

[john dew]

Everyone likes a happy ending

 

I replaced the circuit board......not sure now that I needed to.......and after a lot of fiddling with the motor unit assembly and the circuit board it now responds perfectly to the controller.

 

Many thanks for all the help and support and particularly to "Daltonparva" for the time and patience you devoted to advising me.......couldnt have done it without you.

 

Regards from Vancouver

 

John

[daltonparva]

Hello. I'm glad you've sorted it, I was wondering how things were going as it all went quiet for a bit. I also bet you have a sense of satisfaction having sorted it yourself without having to throw a lot of expense at it. Thanks for letting us know the outcome, and feel free to post a picture of it in situ when you've done chucking ballast at it. All the best.

[melmerby]

Everyone likes a happy ending

 

I replaced the circuit board......not sure now that I needed to.......and after a lot of fiddling with the motor unit assembly and the circuit board it now responds perfectly to the controller.

 

Many thanks for all the help and support and particularly to "Daltonparva" for the time and patience you devoted to advising me.......couldnt have done it without you.

 

Regards from Vancouver

 

John

Hi John

 

Something I did with my TT was to bridge the contacts on the relay* so that the short end piece of rail (one each end of the deck) is always live.

Without doing that you cannot run a loco straight across the deck without switching direction (even if not moving the TT)

You'll hear the click of the relay operating as you move the Fleischmann manual selector switch to it's first position left or right wihout moving the bridge.

 

* it's the small black one on the slip ring PCB

 

Keith

Edited June 30, 2018 by melmerby

[john dew]

Thanks Keith

 

I have that modification of yours filed away on the to do list unless I can find a work around.......So far I have only done a very limited amount of testing on how Turn Control and TC work together.......although what I have done was awesome!

 

Regards

 

John

[melmerby]

Glad you got it working OK after the ingress of all that ballast!

 

I haven't been able to get to my TT (You may have read on another topic that I got flooded).

There is loads of stuff dumped on the layout that is normally either in cabinets on on the floor!

Still sorting everything out.

 

Cheers

 

Keith

[roverdriver]

I too had a sudden non-responsive TT. I first blamed my own soldered joints, as I had to cut the 3-wire ribbon and rejoin so that I could feed the wires to my control panel. The soldered joints proved to be intact so I had to look elsewhere. Thanks to this forum, I got clues of how and where to look. My hunting on the TT bridge showed up a minute piece of metal adhering to the flap of the solenoid. I might say that it did take some time to actually see that that was possibly the problem. With the speck removed and TT reassembled, all is now working well.

 

I bought my TT recently second-hand. The bridge assembly differs from the one illustrated in that the slip ring is on the TT base but the pick-up 'fingers' are on the bridge. That suggests to me that it is quite old, but nevertheless if it does the job, I am quite happy with it.

 

Dane.  !00 miles from Melbourne Australia.