Revolution Trains 00 scale class 321/320 proposal poll/discussion

[Simonsteel]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this site but bear with me on this; I have followed updates on Revolution Trains effort to create an class 320/321 in N gauge. Although I do not know how to create a poll, would people be interested in getting a model of this EMU class upscaled for 4mm?

Having already invested in the OO scale tea tanks, the quality will be there for the final product

What are people’s thoughts and feeling on this subject?

Edited June 17, 2018 by Simonsteel

[MGR Hooper!]

Suggest a moderator move this to the RevolutioN Trains sub-forum???

[Flying Pig]

Welcome to the forum Simonsteel.

 

I'd suggest you change the title of the thread, as it implies an announcement that hasn't been made (clicking or tappint "edit" below your initial post will allow you to do this).

[Simonsteel]

MGR Hooper! - I agree with you there, that will be good to put it where it may be able to make the most impact. I am not sure how to do this myself 

but I'm sure we will get there in the end! 

 

Flying Pig - Thank you for the warm welcome, I realised too late how the link sounded, hopefully the new title will be more appropriate now!

Thank you for the advice.

[No Decorum]

It is strange to say it because I model muck about in 00 and I haven’t had anything from Revolution yet, although the tank wagons cannot be far off. Yes, I’d be all for a 320/321 in 00.

[Simonsteel]

It is agonising waiting for those darn tea tanks! Do you model the modern era?

 

Seeing that you have an interest, would you still pay for a model if it meant paying a little more to help the N-gauge be produced? At the moment, the N-gauge discussion thread were wondering whether this action would help both models be produced. There seems to be an interest for the 00 scale but getting the numbers to make this project viable is another story.

[No Decorum]

Yes, I “model” the modern era and everything GB back to Trevithick if it’s available. I find modern goods wagons particularly fascinating in their size and complexity.

 

I don’t mess about with N scale, so I would have no interest in paying more to enable an N scale model to be made. Why would anyone who doesn’t model N want to help produce models in N? Would we not prefer any extra money to go into an 00 model? However, I am unlikely to have the choice. If a model is made in 00 and priced in such a way as to subsidise an N scale model, then I would decide whether to buy it or not purely based on its affordability and value for money as an 00 model, subject, of course, to what else demands my money at the time.

 

On the other hand, whilst 00 models are never just blown up N models, or shrunken 0 models for that matter, there are some economies to be made by producing both scales at once. It might be that producing in both scales makes both viable where neither would be viable on its own.

 

Ben and Mike model N scale but they are being decent to us 00 modellers. Who knows? If they see that producing an 00 model would enable them to produce the same thing in N, they might go for it. So far, though, N has come first with 00 coming later.

 

As to the TEAs, I anticipate their arrival with a mixture of eagerness and dread. I have ordered and paid for more than is reasonably sensible. Where am I going to put them all?

[Simonsteel]

Us GB rail modellers are blessed with a good variety of wagons and the details that go into the models are absolutely astounding. I'm blessed to witness weird and wonderful wagons based at Tyne Yard. It would be hilarious if you could model Rocket hauling a rake of HYA coal hoppers! Although very unrealistic, that is the beauty of railway modelling. Have you seen those new GBRF biomass hoppers that will be in service soon?

 

It is interesting to know your opinion because this would seem to be a unique subject. From a point of view, this would be the first for discussing whether different scales could work together, than merely one company work on one, save up then build up the funds for a different scale. You are right that it is not a case of upscaling, that it is more complex than that. I probably should have given that context more respect...

 

This is a market that I do not know much about. We just have to trust that manufacturers work out their own respective solutions. This is not about just any company, though, this is Ben and Mike. Their service towards the N-gauge community has been astonishing. I respect the Teas were through a large request (I can model the Jarrow-Lindsey petrol run!) but success will mean that there is potential to branch out. How this will work out will remain to be seen.

 

You could take my lead and hide them in every possible location. I just pray my girlfriend doesn't find out... Space is always an issue but they are more than worth it.

 

 

[SRman]

I have no use for a 320/321, but would love a class 319, which is not all that different, using the same basic mark 3 shells. As it is, I have built a Bratchell Models kit already, but wouldn't mind a nicely detailed RTR version.

If you broaden the poll slightly to reflect the 'family' of units, classes 317 - 322 and 455 and 456 could all be included as variations of the base design. Of course, the cab ends and faces are all different, and some of the window sizes vary between the classes, but a good set of tools could allow for many (if not all) of the variations, just as Bratchell do now.

[VXDH92]

Would absolutely be interested- thanks for starting the thread! A poll would be good if someone knows how to set that up. I'd be in the market for 4 to 6 silverlink 321s.

[Simonsteel]

The possibility of tooling with the similarity of carriages between the classes may be worth exploring. As it stands, Bachmann has the advantage of the class 313 - 318 with the tooling for it's class 150. In effect, differences may need to be tooled but the possibilities are worth exploring on that front. There is no reason that the Bratchell kit and a RTR model cannot go hand in hand. A Bachmann N gauge 319 is being made, so fingers are crossed that they will create this in OO scale in the close future.  

 

If you're interested in the Silverlink, and No Decorum wants 1 and I can do with some Scotrail 320's, thats 9 already! We are slowly getting there! 

 

I have also managed to find a way to make a poll: here is the link:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135014-oo-scale-second-generation-emu-wish-list-poll/

[SRman]

The possibility of tooling with the similarity of carriages between the classes may be worth exploring. As it stands, Bachmann has the advantage of the class 313 - 318 with the tooling for it's class 150. In effect, differences may need to be tooled but the possibilities are worth exploring on that front. There is no reason that the Bratchell kit and a RTR model cannot go hand in hand. A Bachmann N gauge 319 is being made, so fingers are crossed that they will create this in OO scale in the close future.  

 

If you're interested in the Silverlink, and No Decorum wants 1 and I can do with some Scotrail 320's, thats 9 already! We are slowly getting there! 

 

I have also managed to find a way to make a poll: here is the link:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135014-oo-scale-second-generation-emu-wish-list-poll/

 

Sorry to correct you here, but the class 150s bear more resemblance to the class 317-22/455-6 group than the class 313-5/507-8 group. The differences can be clearly seen if you look at photos of class 455/7 trains, which have one trailer per set from a class 508. 

 

If using the class 150 as the basis (especially class 150/2 for classes 317, 318 and 455), the underframe details would be entirely different for the electric units compared to the diesel units. I seem to recall someone on RMweb has converted two 2-car 150s into a 4-car class 455.

[SRman]

Hi Simon: I found your voting topic here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135014-oo-scale-second-generation-emu-wish-list-poll/; however, you have class 415/6 as one category, where I think you might have meant classes 455/6 (being 2nd gen units, where 415/6 are 1st gen units and Bachmann already produce the BR standard version of class 416, the 2 EPB).

I have put a vote for the 415/6 category but assumed what I have written above to be true. Having said that, I would love a full 4-car class 415, in either BR standard or Bulleid form.

[No Decorum]

The possibility of tooling with the similarity of carriages between the classes may be worth exploring. As it stands, Bachmann has the advantage of the class 313 - 318 with the tooling for it's class 150. In effect, differences may need to be tooled but the possibilities are worth exploring on that front. There is no reason that the Bratchell kit and a RTR model cannot go hand in hand. A Bachmann N gauge 319 is being made, so fingers are crossed that they will create this in OO scale in the close future.  

 

If you're interested in the Silverlink, and No Decorum wants 1 and I can do with some Scotrail 320's, thats 9 already! We are slowly getting there! 

 

I have also managed to find a way to make a poll: here is the link:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135014-oo-scale-second-generation-emu-wish-list-poll/

 

Nine! Certain to be made! 

[No Decorum]

Am I missing something? Should the options not include Classes 320 and 321?

[Simonsteel]

SR man - you don't need to apologise at all! It is only a good thing to learn something new and you have big, valid points in terms of the designs. I had not taken that into account so thank you for correcting me. That 455 conversion post will

hold some significant details that will be helpful. People weren't kidding when modelling detail differences is a minefield!

 

No Decorum - Aha, certainty will mean we all have our own exclusive models to show off! The poll has been updated to show the 320/321 and also a few cheeky DMU's thrown into the mix. The coffee hadn't kicked in at the time of making that post!

[njee20]

Can I suggest focusing this a bit.

If this was borne out of the idea that Revolution could scale up the 320/321 then surely you should be trying to put forward a reasoned case for why they should do that? Ie proof of a market etc.

Whilst the point about it being a 'gateway unit' to other similar units is valid I'm not sure having a long list of all sorts of vaguely related things is of any use, you're basically just creating a wish list. Your list now contains 11 options, where there are some variations within an option.

 

Adding in 185s, which are Desiros (aren't they?) is something wholly different - you want Bachmann to be changing their 350 for that (and I can't see it happening). 175s are just something wholly different, and bear no relation whatsoever to a 321.

 

Well done on the enthusiasm, but consider what you actually want, rather than just listing a load of things you'd like to see produced and get people to vote on them. There's an annual poll to gather data on people's wishlists.

[Simonsteel]

Can I suggest focusing this a bit.

If this was borne out of the idea that Revolution could scale up the 320/321 then surely you should be trying to put forward a reasoned case for why they should do that? Ie proof of a market etc.

Whilst the point about it being a 'gateway unit' to other similar units is valid I'm not sure having a long list of all sorts of vaguely related things is of any use, you're basically just creating a wish list. Your list now contains 11 options, where there are some variations within an option.

 

Adding in 185s, which are Desiros (aren't they?) is something wholly different - you want Bachmann to be changing their 350 for that (and I can't see it happening). 175s are just something wholly different, and bear no relation whatsoever to a 321.

 

Well done on the enthusiasm, but consider what you actually want, rather than just listing a load of things you'd like to see produced and get people to vote on them. There's an annual poll to gather data on people's wishlists.

 

Whilst the poll and this thread seems to be pulling a part with this discussion and now a poll on multiple units people may want, these posts are helping people to display interest in possibilities for the future.

granted, whilst this may not guarantee that every loco will be catered for, the express interest and argument in this post will still wholly be with the Class 320/321.

 

yes, the poll will be mqainly wishlisting but the idea that if enough likes are made, these results could still be passed on to the manufacturers to at least take into consideration. The CADs are done for the N gauge

320/321 which shows a quality model with potential. The main consensus from that post was there seemed to be an interest for a OO model but with hints that enough interest with that model would mean that

an N gauge model could be helped along. This was the purpose of this post, to see if there was enough interest to propose this to Ben and Mike, and how people felt about pricing to pay if it meant the N gauge

model would also get over the line to be produced.

 

I would love a 320 in scotrail as I have seen a few of them pass by, this would be something lovely to show on a layout.

 

Yeah, you are right, there are landmines in creating multiple units and it won't be easy and cheap. I am hoping that DMU and EMU poll to develop with peoples thoughts.Thank you for the heads up though. I appreciate

it and it may look as it things are all over the place but things will be kept right.

 

Saying that, it's all you lot corrupting me with all these ideas for new locos! 

[njee20]

Back up a bit.

 

Although I know several people have said they'd like a OO gauge 320/321, it was a random comment in the N gauge thread that doing a OO gauge one may help the viability of the N gauge one, it's not something Ben and Mike have suggested - I'd not like to put words into their mouths, but the two are as good as mutually exclusive. I can't see it ever being popular to advertise a product as costing more because you're subsidising another which most people will have no interest in, even if someone suggested it. I'd lose that train of thought. 

 

Again, there's an annual poll where everyone's views are officially captured and passed on - your poll won't be representative as it's accessed via a thread about the 320/321, in the Rapido sub-forum. Why would I come here if I wanted a 175? Why not just add 442s and 444s to the list as well?

If you want to garner support for a 320/321 in OO to show Mike and Ben a market exists with a well researched and justified argument then great. But that's not what this seems to be.

[wombatofludham]

The possibility of tooling with the similarity of carriages between the classes may be worth exploring. As it stands, Bachmann has the advantage of the class 313 - 318 with the tooling for it's class 150. In effect, differences may need to be tooled but the possibilities are worth exploring on that front. There is no reason that the Bratchell kit and a RTR model cannot go hand in hand. A Bachmann N gauge 319 is being made, so fingers are crossed that they will create this in OO scale in the close future.  

 

If you're interested in the Silverlink, and No Decorum wants 1 and I can do with some Scotrail 320's, thats 9 already! We are slowly getting there! 

 

I have also managed to find a way to make a poll: here is the link:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135014-oo-scale-second-generation-emu-wish-list-poll/

Sorry to be a pedant but Classes 313-315 have a very different bodyshell to the Mk3 derived 150 and 317-322 classes, however the Mk3 derived units have broadly similar body styles (some detail differences in window layout and of course front end design). Just looking at the Class 321 style bodyshell, if both designs of driving trailer were made you would have the 321/3 units, with smaller first class section, in NSE, First GE, National Express, One and Abellio liveries, as a Class 321/9 (which also has the same small window driving trailers at both ends as the 321/3) in West Yorkshire, Northern Blue and Northern red/blue, the 321/4 (which has a large window and larger first class saloon in one driving trailer) could be released in NSE, Silverlink, and London Midland, as well as 3 car Scotrail versions, which have carried Strathclyde Orange, Carmine/Cream, First Scotrail and the current Spotrail livery. If a third driving trailer tooling could be accommodated to model the different front saloon window arrangement of the Stanstead Class 322s, you could then have their variants added to the mix including the original Stanstead livery, the North West Trains goldstar livery and the later First Scotrail colours. That's a lot of liveries - and if they get serious about the Hydrogen conversions and they become a runner, who knows what could be coming along.

 

Frankly, unless Bachmann are working in secret on a 321 now, we are a good three or four years off a 321 from Barwell and to be honest if they are thinking of a late BR EMU it's more likely they will add the Nitromors to the proposed N gauge 319, which has still to make daylight, so even if they announce a 319 this year I suspect it's a couple of years off. Someone like Rapido/Revolution could snatch the model in a quicker timescale and make it to market whilst Bachmann are still trying to bring a 319 to market, and probably for a similar price. I'd be up for possibly two 321/4 in NSE and a Silverlink version if someone made one!

[Simonsteel]

No one needs to be sorry, I should not have been naïve to think that tooling for different classes would have been that straight forward. Knowledge is power after all.   

 

The idea that this project could have lead to other units being available would have helped with further causes should the 320/321 be successful. If you are, at least, down for a model or two, that will help with making a difference. I appreciate you explaining the details as I'm not as familiar with southern locos. Because I live near Newcastle,

142's, 156's, 185s, 320's and 425's are more my speciality. Incidentally, the movements of 320's through Newcastle are part of the reason I want to create an interest in this particular model. Research has indicated that RevolutioN has two different end cars tooled, which would help with more of the sub-classes being catered for.

 

Now that my coffee has kicked in, I realise that I have done the poll the wrong way. Being encouraged to help get other class members out there, the poll for the 320/321 should have been independent, rather than being added t the general poll. I shall create a more specific poll for peoples thoughts on the 321/320 alone. That will help 

determine peoples thoughts more effectively. In terms of Ben and Mike, this is not intending to impede on their projects. This is more to help with getting this particular model out. I'm not claiming to be a miracle worker and this may not work, but it is worth a try at least. The N-gauge model did prove popular up until a certain point. This 

allowed the CAD to be initiated. Why there has been a stall, that remains a mystery. If the  OO scale ends up standing alone then there is not much else that can be done. also, look that train of though I see what you did there... lol

 

You're right in that this will be a far fetched place to find another loco. That was an error on my part of maybe getting too carried away. That poll still stands to be a separate entity.

 

True, until I sort out an actual poll for this loco, this will not be the best way to get the results across. However, I will still take part in that annual poll and I would encourage people who want this loco to do the same. The intention wasn't merely to make a poll and leave it, a time limit could be incurred and a link to send to RevolutioN trains

given the results from said poll. 

 

Wombatofludam brought up the very many liveries held by these trains. They may be boring but they hold some of the most colourful liveries. Anyone wanting a modern image layout based around Scotland, these are a must. Newcastle has seen London Midland and the spotty saltire units moving up, and because Doncaster and London have these units,

there is scope to have them along the ECML, Birmingham lines hold these trains, and Multiple units are frequently run. GreaterAnglia can run these in multiples of three, which would make for an impressive sight. Three car 320's are small layout sizes which would be perfect for most homes. Because the Cads are already made, this train can be quickly 

designed for OO scale and alternatives can go from there.

 

Bachmann and the announced Hornby 66's, 67's and a multitude of diesel traction can act as thunderbird. If sandwiched between RevolutioN's tea's or bachmanns tea's, they could represent stock movements which would make for a unique formation. They would blend well with the Forthcoming Bachmann 158's and also work along their 150's, 

 

I have yet to say to Mike and Ben about this line of interest but it will not be worth it if interest does not work with this model either. If people want something, they have to act. The annual poll will be used to express this interest as well. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and I apologise for how I have handled this thread. I do not intend to rub people the wrong way.

[YesTor]

As to the TEAs, I anticipate their arrival with a mixture of eagerness and dread. I have ordered and paid for more than is reasonably sensible. Where am I going to put them all?

 

I'm so glad I'm not alone on that one. 

[Simonsteel]

We are all with you YesTor; We understand your pain!

 

For the purpose of a specific 320/321 poll, here is a specific one that relates to this thread. Thank you all who voted in the previous poll that was set up earlier on!

 

here is the direct link;

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135029-oo-scale-class-320321-questionaire-poll/

[njee20]

I don't think you've rubbed anyone the wrong way, I'm purely advising because I'm trying to channel your evident enthusiasm. Keep it focused on proving to Ben and Mike there's a market for the 320/321 in OO. Don't try and run before you can walk by showing how popular other things would be and diluting the message you're giving. Currently a OO gauge 321 isn't even on the table, so don't start proving why a 319 would be great.

 

I'm an N gauge modeller, so I'm catered for, aside from the model still not being definitively confirmed anyway!

[Andy Y]

Locked as another poll topic has been started off.