Loughborough Junction - graffiti deaths

[Joseph_Pestell]

I have plenty of reason/evidence to believe that I am a compassionate person. But I save that compassion for those that need/deserve it and these three did not.

 

A tragedy: certainly, and in the most classically correct sense of that word. They suffered the inevitable consequence of their actions.

 

As to the reporting of it, I wonder if we are again seeing a difference in the attitude to the railways (led by journalists) by comparison with roads. Roads are intrinsically far more dangerous than railways in that pedestrians are not separated from the moving traffic. How would this incident have been reported if they had been hit by a lorry while spray-painting a wall along a road without a pavement?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Your last paragraph about the comment from a friend of one of the trespassers just seems to reinforce the strange sense of entitlement that some people feel that they can do what they want, where they want without having to accept or comprehend the consequences of their actions. It's an utterley ridiculous mindset which needs addressing somehow, I wish I knew how, but I don't.

A mindset I seem to encounter every time I go out, especially on the road. Too much emphasis is put on 'Rights' but no mention of the converse that every 'Right' is balanced by a 'Responsibility'

[polybear]

That criminal known as 'Banksy' *hawk, spit* has a lot to answer for, to my mind.

 

 

...Though I am rather partial to this little number:

 

https://www.graffitistreet.com/store/banksy-monkey-parliament-official-lithograph/

[lmsforever]

Society is full of people who will not do as they are told even if it keeps them alive and the media encourages them to feel they are right.Graffiti is a cancer in our enviroment but the right on people say its art so its okay so what can we do .

[MarkC]

Society is full of people who will not do as they are told even if it keeps them alive and the media encourages them to feel they are right.Graffiti is a cancer in our enviroment but the right on people say its art so its okay so what can we do .

Laugh at the right-on people. They hate it. Tough.

[Wickham Green]

...Though I am rather partial to this little number:

 

https://www.graffitistreet.com/store/banksy-monkey-parliament-official-lithograph/

Who's the monkey then ? ............... them looks like apes to me, them does !

[The Johnster]

Running lines are very dangerous places for experienced railwaymen to be wandering about in, never mind the incogneciti from the other side of the fences and wall put there for their benefit.  It is, of course, only thinning out the gene pool, but it is important to remember that a very real tragedy has occurred; that these tragic deaths, perhaps the more tragic because of they were so stupidly pointless and wasteful, have occurred to real people who were as 'entitled' as anyone else to a long and happy life.  Their grief stricken relatives and friends are in a quandry; how to honour lives lost through the culpability of those who lost them in an ill advised and illegal act.  

 

I am reminded of a very tragic incident back in the 80s on the SWML at Pontyclun, in which a young couple taking a short cut across the railway at night were struck and killed outright by a down Paddington-Swansea HST at about 90mph.  They had been celebrating a friend's wedding at the local rugby club, which borders the railway, and were planning their own engagement; they were a popular couple and the village was very significantly affected by the incident.  They would have saved about 4 minutes walk by taking this short cut, which they had 'got away' with many times before (familiarity breeds contempt).

 

But the reaction was to start a petition amongst the villagers, who had lost their station a generation before and had little connection with the railway and saw things in terms of road transport, with the aim of restricting the speed of trains through built up areas to 30mph.  Explaining that this cannot be done to a grieving relative is a job I'm glad I didn't have!

 

Deaths have occurred here, wasteful pointless tragic avoidable deaths, and while I cannot approve of thrill seeking trespass on railways I cannot agree either with those who are condemning their actions without considering the feelings of grieving friends and relatives.  These people will be honoured in their community whatever we think, but at the same time the glorification of their undoubted stupidity is clearly wrong.  

[beast66606]

 I cannot agree either with those who are condemning their actions without considering the feelings of grieving friends and relatives.  These people will be honoured in their community whatever we think, but at the same time the glorification of their undoubted stupidity is clearly wrong.  

 

 

Unfortunately in this case there are plenty of quotes in the articles linked which show their friends - and possibly family - knew what they were up to, so I'm afraid my sympathy for them and their immediates, little as it was, went out of the door.

[jjb1970]

I wonder how much of the negative reaction is a response to the media reporting and comments seemingly being made by those who knew the deceased? As much as I regret these deaths and feel sympathy for their loved ones, I also find the tone of some of the reporting, media commentary and quotes rather distasteful in the way they are trying to downplay the simple reality that these three individuals died entirely as a result of their own decisions, trying to infer that the railway was in some way to blame and trying to dignify vandalism by elevating it to "street art".

[Enterprisingwestern]

I wonder how much of the negative reaction is a response to the media reporting and comments seemingly being made by those who knew the deceased? As much as I regret these deaths and feel sympathy for their loved ones, I also find the tone of some of the reporting, media commentary and quotes rather distasteful in the way they are trying to downplay the simple reality that these three individuals died entirely as a result of their own decisions, trying to infer that the railway was in some way to blame and trying to dignify vandalism by elevating it to "street art".

 

To the media, calling them trespassing vandalising criminals doesn't sell papers/increase viewing figures because you can't expand it into some sort of moral outrage or public campaign.

 

Mike.

[caradoc]

Three young men in the prime of life with many years ahead of them trespassed on the railway late at night and vandalised it by spraying graffiti. They did not set out to kill or hurt anyone and they did not steal anything or put any railway equipment out of action. They paid for their foolish act with their lives.

 

I was involved (from the safety of an office) in too many railway fatalaties to count but I still have sympathy for these three men, and for their families and friends, who may well now be wondering if they could have done anytthing to prevent such a tragic and needless waste. 

[Dungrange]

I still have sympathy for these three men, and for their families and friends, who may well now be wondering if they could have done anytthing to prevent such a tragic and needless waste. 

 

I partly agree: I don't think these individuals deserved to die, even if they were breaking the law.  I therefore have some sympathy for the loss of life, but of course I have, thankfully, never been involved in a 'clean up' operation, as I don't work on the railway.  However, the problem that I see with society is that in similar circumstances many family and friends don't seem to think about what they could have done.  They just want to blame someone and even although the only people responsible for the deaths of these individuals is themselves, that generally isn't accepted by family and friends.   They want to blame someone else.  That's why they say they want 'justice'.  It's seen as the railway's fault simply because so many people seem to be incapable of accepting responsibility for the consequences of their own actions (or inactions).

[Wickham Green]

Personally I'm not too worried that they were breaking the law - AS SUCH* ..... but laws / rules / regulations are formulated by 'the system' in order to safeguard individuals or the population as a whole from actions which are deemed unacceptable to the majority  -  and strolling about on a live railway with no regard for one's own safety nor for the grief one's about to inflict on those who have to - literally - pick up the pieces resulting from one's actions ( not to mention the grief inflicted on one's friends and relatives ) is not just BLOODY STUPID but it's socially unacceptable. 

 

 

*Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men. : Harry Day
 

[lmsforever]

As an example of just how riduclous society has become ,a thief stole money from a woman at a cash point but was chased and caught and held until the police arrive.Whilst waiting he struggled with his pursuers peple in the crowd said let him go what about his human rights no thought for the victim at all ,what a world we live in .My thoughts to the people who had to clear the remains on the tracks.

[The Johnster]

They weren't breaking the law, in the criminal sense, by being on the railway; trespass is a civil law matter punishable with a fine, not a death sentence.  The railway owes them no duty of care as far as I can see, however, as it was unaware of their presence due to the definitionally furtive nature of their activity.  Had their presence been reported and the railway made aware of it, matters would be different.

 

There is a very clear message here; people who want to trespass on operational railways should be encouraged to do so, to the ultimate benefit of the gene pool, and perhaps the media should be praised for glorifying their misdeeds in the eyes of their peers, who I seriously doubt have anything beneficial to add to said gene pool and will be exactly the sort of people whose removal from it will benefit society as a whole.     

 

None of which detracts from the fact that this is terrible tragedy, and a stupid waste of young men's lives.  Just because you are a potential gene pool removal candidate doesn't, or shouldn't, deny you your human right to a happy and perhaps useful despite everything life ended by a death from old age.  

[Zomboid]

I believe the railway is one of the few places where trespass is actually a criminal rather than civil offense.

[EddieB]

They did not set out to kill or hurt anyone and they did not steal anything or put any railway equipment out of action.

 

Except that graffitied rolling stock is put out of action until the expensive removal process is completed.

[Wickham Green]

Except that graffitied rolling stock is put out of action until the expensive removal process is completed.

Not round here it isn't - there are far too many examples of this so called "art" running round as an example for budding so called "artists" to copy ............ they certainly SHOULD be confined to barracks until cleaned up - but if the roster says unit xxx.yyy should be on the 08.21 then it plays merry hell with the schedule if something needs to be substituted at the last minute !

[John Tomlinson]

I believe the railway is one of the few places where trespass is actually a criminal rather than civil offense.

 

I think you're right, and that prosecution for such leads to a criminal record. The same must be true for unauthorised entry to MOD property, RAF bases and the like.

 

John.

[birdseyecircus]

Sad but that's the price you can pay for tresspass.

Funny if you change the method of transport it can change things.

'Youths mown down under motorway bridge' or '3 teens killed walking across the main runway at heathrow'

Would Jeremy vine propose closing roads and airports for folk to have the place to themselves for all sorts of mischief?

 

Paul

[Dungrange]

They weren't breaking the law, in the criminal sense, by being on the railway; trespass is a civil law matter punishable with a fine

 

According to Network Rail, it is a criminal offence, punishable by a fine or even a prison sentence - see https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/warning-it-is-a-criminal-offence-to-trespass-on-the-railway

 

I agree that trespass shouldn't be punishable by death and also that the railway owes them no duty of care.  They didn't follow the rules and unfortunately, that means paying a very high price - in this case, death.  I also agree that the media have a lot to answer for - a lot of published articles are very one-sided.

[The Stationmaster]

I believe the railway is one of the few places where trespass is actually a criminal rather than civil offense.

 

Trespass on the railway and 'vandalism' (i.e. deliberate damage to railway infrastructure and equipment) are both offences against the Byelaws and are therefore criminal offences.  If proven in court leading to a conviction the punishment sentencing is based on the appropriate parts of the tariff system for criminal convictions and depending on the severity and the Judge can, as Dungrange has said, levy a fine or commit the guilty party to a prison sentence.

 

In neither case in the event of conviction is a death sentence involved (obviously).  The fact that they died in this incident was purely a consequence of their stupidity and a side effect of their seemingly carrying out criminal acts.  And they are not of course the only trespassers who, over the years, have been killed or have died as a consequence of trespass on the railway and in that respect, whatever their peers might think of them, they are no different from others who have suffered that fate.  And every single one of them has no doubt ruined the day, and in some cases even the livelihood, of others caught up in their action simply because they happened to be doing their jobs or were travelling (or trying to travel) on the railway.

 

Suicide has sometimes been described as a selfish act because of its potential and actual effect on others but it is usually the result of a very disturbed mind working on a very different pattern of logic from what we might consider the norm.  Despite the horror of it I do not regard suicides as selfish and always try to have considerable compassion for those who suffer, even if their action ruins my day and a few subsequently.  But people of apparently sane mind who deliberately wander onto the railway or regard it as some sort of personal entitlement to be there are in a very different category in my book and I have no compassion for them whatsoever.

[jjb1970]

Not round here it isn't - there are far too many examples of this so called "art" running round as an example for budding so called "artists" to copy ............ they certainly SHOULD be confined to barracks until cleaned up - but if the roster says unit xxx.yyy should be on the 08.21 then it plays merry hell with the schedule if something needs to be substituted at the last minute !

 

It's something that our railways seem to be very good at, I'm always taken aback at the number of trains sporting graffiti I see in most other European countries, some of which is heavy and appears to have been there for a while.

[EddieB]

Something that seems apparent from certain media reports is that these men had friends and family that were routinely aware of their activities and did nothing to dissuade them. They would probably deny, but they gave tacit approval. To prevent a crime, and in this case save the young men’s lives, they could at least have called Crimestoppers. But they chose not to.

 

A different social background, and some of these same media would be clamouring about irresponsible parenting. The shaming ought to apply, regardless of background or supposed age of responsibility, since their upbringing betrays no respect for other people’s - or public - property.

 

Were this an act of terrorism, we would expect those connected to the perpetrators to be questioned. Were it a suicide, then aiding the suicide would be an offence.

 

Should it not be that the parents and associates of these men be subject to a very public grilling by the police? Likewise those media outlets that exist to promote this form of criminal vandalism. I say this, not to pile on their grief, but in the hope that support is removed from those planning similar acts - to the safety and security of all concerned.

[108]

According to Network Rail, it is a criminal offence, punishable by a fine or even a prison sentence - see https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/warning-it-is-a-criminal-offence-to-trespass-on-the-railway

 

I agree that trespass shouldn't be punishable by death and also that the railway owes them no duty of care. They didn't follow the rules and unfortunately, that means paying a very high price - in this case, death. I also agree that the media have a lot to answer for - a lot of published articles are very one-sided.

death wasn't a punishment for their trespasses, it was a consequence of their trespasses. If they weren't there then nothing would have happened