br2975 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 See the following links; http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/uk/single-view/view/uk-railway-test-circuit-proposed.html . https://gov.wales/newsroom/transport/2018/180625-global-centre-of-rail-excellence-to-come-to-wales/?lang=en . https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/new-100m-global-centre-rail-14821753 . Brian R 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2018 That's a big 'roundy'!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2018 Makes a lot of sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I know the South Yorkshire area was wanting this. Looks like they lost. There’s also a proposal for a Chinese manufacturer, partnered with an Australian one, to build a factory in the UK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Looking at the article in Wales Online, either they have their pictures muddled up, or KeolisAmey have no idea what a tram:train vehicle has to be. As a railway train, yes, but as a street running tram, or even for off-street line of sight operation, definitely no. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 See the following links; http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/uk/single-view/view/uk-railway-test-circuit-proposed.html . https://gov.wales/newsroom/transport/2018/180625-global-centre-of-rail-excellence-to-come-to-wales/?lang=en . https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/new-100m-global-centre-rail-14821753 . Brian R They could combine it with the proposed motor-racing circuit near Cwmbargoed... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 That's a picture of one of the Stadler trains for Anglia. But one of the others has something that looks very much like one of ScotRail's Hitachis, so neither of them can really be relied on. Have CAF won the TfW job yet? You'd have thought that they could have photoshopped a 195, since that's what they'll actually most likely be getting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2018 Good for Wales, this would be a huge asset for the industry in Britain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Another ill thought out white elephant. it needs a darned sight more capability than 160km/hr if it is to have any real relevance and a welsh mountain is hardly the ideal location. It they are going to do it then start with somewhere level ish as in Lincolnshire or East Yorkshire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2018 I'm not sure a test track really needs to go much above 160kph/100mph. The great majority of UK trains operate within that envelope of only slightly above, although going for 200kph/125mph may be useful. For high speed trains, rather than building a test track I think the Japanese practice of allocating a window of opportunity on their operational lines between normal service and night time maintenance closures makes more sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nightstar.train Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2018 Presumably this will be built to a European loading gauge? If it’s to the British loading gauge it will indeed be a white elephant. And I hope it’s near a port to bring in foreign trains for testing too. Given how variable the U.K. train market is (cycles of feast and famine), it’ll definitely need foreign trains to test to have steady work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 The term 'test track' is prone to being a little ambiguous I think. Having done a lot of work around this opportunity in the past three years, it is the business of fault-free mileage accumulation that is most critical, along with repeat testing of certain systems, such as doors and automatic signalling systems, so that the trains have achieved a certain critical reliability level before they're unleashed on the main line. It 's tempting to think of a new facility as being able to run trains as fast as they can without physically falling off, but this isn't the business need - that's far more prosaic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Another ill thought out white elephant. it needs a darned sight more capability than 160km/hr if it is to have any real relevance and a welsh mountain is hardly the ideal location. It they are going to do it then start with somewhere level ish as in Lincolnshire or East Yorkshire. I'd guess the site probably limits the track to Second Radius curves at best .......... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon47603 Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Another ill thought out white elephant. it needs a darned sight more capability than 160km/hr if it is to have any real relevance and a welsh mountain is hardly the ideal location. It they are going to do it then start with somewhere level ish as in Lincolnshire or East Yorkshire. You have obviously never been there. The entire area around the Washery and Nant Helen Opencast is a large flat plateau. It is mainly Farmland with one Village with isolated cottages, here and they're. It has excellent road links, especially with the A465, as extremely large Mining Equipment is regularly moved up and down the valley. It wouldn't take a lot of planning transporting Rail Vehicles in from the various Ports on the Bristol Channel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Here's a Google Earth view of the site:- https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Onllwyn,+Neath+SA10+9HG/@51.7811943,-3.6988459,4581m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x486e459c01717589:0xbbb363400d3f4f18!8m2!3d51.781182!4d-3.681333?hl=en The line past Colbren Junction was used to represent the South African Veldt in the film 'Young Winston'., so not your typical South Wales valley, which some people seem to have thought it was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Here's a Google Earth view of the site:- https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Onllwyn,+Neath+SA10+9HG/@51.7811943,-3.6988459,4581m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x486e459c01717589:0xbbb363400d3f4f18!8m2!3d51.781182!4d-3.681333?hl=en The line past Colbren Junction was used to represent the South African Veldt in the film 'Young Winston'., so not your typical South Wales valley, which some people seem to have thought it was. Some people stand duly corrected ............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2018 Speed depends on what you are testing for, and is not really needed unless you are testing for speed or braking performance, which can be done in service or acceptance trials on proper railways. If the site is more to test equipment in operating conditions, or train staff in the use and maintenance of stock, then this site will be plenty big enough, and I can state from experience will be able to expose stock to the worst possible weather conditions. Local legend has it that St Patrick was from Banwen, just around the corner from this site! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 So amazingly, if this comes off, the Neath and Brecon which was one of the dodgiest of all the South Wales railways will be at the forefront of technology and this should guarantee its future for a few decades at least. Good news! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 So amazingly, if this comes off, the Neath and Brecon which was one of the dodgiest of all the South Wales railways will be at the forefront of technology and this should guarantee its future for a few decades at least. Good news! ............. except you can't actually get to Brecon on it ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2018 Have CAF won the TfW job yet? Nearly - they are the "preferred bidder". http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/caf-to-supply-wales-borders-regional-train-fleet.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted June 25, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2018 Another ill thought out white elephant. it needs a darned sight more capability than 160km/hr if it is to have any real relevance and a welsh mountain is hardly the ideal location. It they are going to do it then start with somewhere level ish as in Lincolnshire or East Yorkshire. Why does it need to be flat? Trains go up and down hills. Its not all about speed, also the effects of passing through tunnels etc. Far better than sending them through the chunnel for testing. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 To what extent is a circuit of track useful to test trains, as it in no way represents the actual environment that the trains will operate in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 26, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 26, 2018 To what extent is a circuit of track useful to test trains, as it in no way represents the actual environment that the trains will operate in? Mileage accumulation for one before acceptance into traffic. IIRC Siemens units pretty much go straight into traffic as they have done their "miles" on Siemens' own facility ay Wildenrath. In the UK, stock has to take up valuable track space and time on a working railway to accumulate mileage. Driver training can also be carried out at the test track with similar benefits. It won't just be a circle of track, there are other facilities proposed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted June 26, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 26, 2018 I wonder if the plans will necessarily entail the retention of the ex N&B line up the Dulais Valley. In this day and age I wouldn't be surprised if it were considered preferable to bring the trains in for testing by road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 26, 2018 The term 'test track' is prone to being a little ambiguous I think. Having done a lot of work around this opportunity in the past three years, it is the business of fault-free mileage accumulation that is most critical, along with repeat testing of certain systems, such as doors and automatic signalling systems, so that the trains have achieved a certain critical reliability level before they're unleashed on the main line. It 's tempting to think of a new facility as being able to run trains as fast as they can without physically falling off, but this isn't the business need - that's far more prosaic. Very much agree about the mileage accumulation aspect but I would seriously hope for an even greater, and wider, extent of testing. As you know many problems have emerged with new trains that have satisfactory mileage accumulation under their belts but then suffer a whole raft of problems once they enter everyday service. The Class 800s are probably reasonably typical of this - better than some, worse than others but still suffering from what mainly appear to be software related problems in traffic, even on the most recent deliveries. My experience in test programmes is now more than a little rusty but the last one I had any direct involvement in (other than as an ISA reviewing various aspects of the programme) involved extensive tests of just about every operational feature of the vehicles concerned (hauled stock) including the climatic tests carried out at Vienna but even back then little which equated to what would be experienced in everyday operation with passengers joining and alighting and doing the sorts of things passengers are inclined to do to passenger vehicles - such as riding in them. If Britain is to have a test facility then I hope it would have facilities to test the wider aspects of a vehicles operational life rather than simply putting on mileage and making sure that everything worked correctly during that process. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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