Heath Town and other signalling diversions

[5BarVT]

TRAIN MOVEMENTS

Trains have run under computer control today.  Yesterday was largely programming and through testing between layout and computer.

A couple more mystery shorts sorted.  One was another air gap issue: sliding a piece of card down it (old rail ticket) sorted it.  I count that as maintenance.

The second was more fun and took a bit longer.  One particular loco caused the cut out to squawk but only occasionally.

Cause? Dapol kadee droop - if the trip pin happens to be in the right place as it passes through one turnout it shorts across the air gap on the other switch rail.  Now I know, I can ignore until I do my next round of kadee set up adjustments.

Watching the trains go by (OK shuttle backwards and forwards) has been pleasing and relaxing.
Paul.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

sliding a piece of card down it (old rail ticket) sorted it.

Edmondson or APTIS? I think we should be told.

[5BarVT]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Edmondson or APTIS? I think we should be told.

APTIS, thin and strong.

And you’ve just made me realise that I can’t remember the names of the systems in between.

There were the large machines which had a two dimensional selection that gave an Edmondson size ticket but with offset break between outward and return.  Then there were those that gave a paper ticket on yellowy ‘seccurity’ printed paper (favoured by LM).

Paul.

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

APTIS, thin and strong.

And you’ve just made me realise that I can’t remember the names of the systems in between.

There were the large machines which had a two dimensional selection that gave an Edmondson size ticket but with offset break between outward and return.  Then there were those that gave a paper ticket on yellowy ‘seccurity’ printed paper (favoured by LM).

Paul.

Umpteen different machines and systems in the ticketing world.  The traditionally equipped WR booking office (i.e those without Multiprinters and/or Miniprinters) went from Edmondson card and (in few cases 'or') paper tickets to the NCR 65 machines which looked a bit like a cash register and printed those vertically arranged red & white larger card tickets.  The only problem with the NCR machines - apart from all the various buttons which a few of my Booking Clerks didn't like one bit - was that it was possible to 'fiddle' them to produce two tickets for a single transaction (I won't explain how and the 'forgeries' weren't too difficult to spot if you knew what to look for).   And that was as far as my involvement at area level went with such things apart from the two types of machine used by Guards/Conductors on the WR as i'd moved on to Divisional/RHQ jobs before the later systems came in.

 

In terms of speed of ticket issue the only thing which was quicker than an Edmondson card was a Westinghouse Miniprinter.  They were extensively used on the London Underground but because each machine could only do a small range of tickets (normally 4 or 6 different tickets) they were only used in the busiest WR offices for heavily used ticket issues.  But the Edmondson card ticket required a lot of accountancy work (the Miniprinter required almost as much) and there were various ways of fiddling the system and pocketing some cash for those who were prepared to take the risk because the easiest one would eventually come to light (officially it should come to light at the end of a four weekly accountancy period but sloppy working ina large booking office could get round that).    

 

All the machine advances have been based on simplifying and reducing the accountancy work while also minimising the opportunity for fiddles but that has often been at the expense of reducing the speed of ticket issue.

 

Back to model railways.

[5BarVT]

TRAINS AND PROGRESS

Foam has been applied to the next two boards and in the background are the test trains from yesterday.

 

 

Since the photo was taken the track across the join and both points have been laid.  I decided to give screws only a chance (i.e. no fishplates).  The alignment from the DCC Concepts dowels is very firm and there should be no problems . . . so with heart in mouth I cut through the rails.  A quick hand test says no problems but until more track is laid and wired I won't be able to do exhaustive testing with different stock and at speed.

Better get laying then!

Paul.

Edited April 2, 2022 by 5BarVT
Photo reload.

[5BarVT]

Little people visited today and I managed to get a bit more working for them coming.  The track and droppers are in final configuration but underneath is a bit more cobbled together.  An advantage of using standardised wiring is that it is much easier to recycle some bits.  The temporary wiring has much using the wrong colours and far too long but it did for today.  Now I can go back and do it properly.

 

Feel free to play 'spot the difference' with the previous photo ('junk' excluded).

 

 

Paul.

Edited April 2, 2022 by 5BarVT
Photo reload.

[5BarVT]

JUST DO IT PROPERLY!

Following the Little People's visit I have now wired the board 'properly'.  That involved building a new Track Interface board and a Point Power board.  There is more track to lay and that will need connections to the Track Interface but that's all.  Here's a before and after of the underside.

 

Before

 

 

After

 

 

Paul.

Edited April 2, 2022 by 5BarVT
Photo reload.

[Graham T]

I daren't show anyone the underneath of my baseboards.  They look a bit like an explosion in a spaghetti factory...

 

 

(I guess spaghetti isn't actually made in factories, as well know that it grows on trees, but hopefully the imagery works).

[ISW]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

JUST DO IT PROPERLY!

Following the Little People's visit I have now wired the board 'properly'.  That involved building a new Track Interface board and a Point Power board.  There is more track to lay and that will need connections to the Track Interface but that's all.  Here's a before and after of the underside.

 

Before

 

After

 

Paul.

Paul,

Well worth the extra effort in the second attempt. Made a huge difference>

Ian

[5BarVT]

OH DEAR (1)

 

Having run beautifully when the Little People came, when I turned the board back over after doing the wiring 'properly' I saw this:

 

 

I've laid and cut on curves before with no problems, but its been on cork not foam.  I'm wondering if the flexibility of the foam has allowed sufficient movement for the glue to fail in shear.

 

A quick bodge and I'm hoping this will be sufficient lateral restraint.  I have another two section gaps on this board - screws will be applied as if it is crossing a board gap.  If the bodge doesn't hold a bit of lifting to insert screws under the rail head will occur.

 

Paul. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by 5BarVT
Photo reload.

[Graham T]

I'm curious Paul, why did you go for foam rather than cork?  Noise reduction?

[5BarVT]

OH DEAR (2)

 

I've managed to strain my back - possibly the cumulative effect of a few things that have put extra stress on it.  Any way, working on boards is Off for probably the next six weeks or so!  I am getting caught up on other tasks, like posting here (!) and updating my inventory.

 

I'll let you know when things improve and something photogenic happens.

 

"I may be some time."

 

Paul.

[5BarVT]

3 minutes ago, Graham T said:

I'm curious Paul, why did you go for foam rather than cork?  Noise reduction?

1. To give it a try as others have used it.

2. Limited (largely) to non scenic area so ballasting won't make it solid to the board again (a bit sound quality, but as I have lots of separate boards and on each join the rail is soldered to a screw I'll still get noise).

3. Wickes have stopped doing the pre sealed cork and I was struggling to find some 3mm thick to match what I have on the (to be) reused boards.

 

True, but not desperately helpful!

 

Paul.

[ISW]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

OH DEAR (1)

 

Having run beautifully when the Little People came, when I turned the board back over after doing the wiring 'properly' I saw this:

I've laid and cut on curves before with no problems, but its been on cork not foam.  I'm wondering if the flexibility of the foam has allowed sufficient movement for the glue to fail in shear.

Paul,

 

Why didn't you use IRJs (insulated plastic fishplates) to create the gaps? They keep the alignment, even if/when the glue gives way a bit. I'd be tempted to retrofit some, once your back (oh dear 2) allows.

 

Ian

[TrevorP1]

Sorry to see your problems Paul.

For what it’s worth my hidden sidings are pinned, no glue, on foam. The sleepers need to be drilled first otherwise the foam (and sleepers) will distort. I agree with Ian about the use of insulated joiners but on a curve I’d pin as well to avoid any chance of future problems. 
 

On the joints adjacent to the lifting flap I’ve used PCB sleepers.

 

To be honest I haven’t been entirely happy with the foam. If I was doing it again I’d go for cork.

 

Take care with that back!

[5BarVT]

39 minutes ago, ISW said:

Paul,

 

Why didn't you use IRJs (insulated plastic fishplates) to create the gaps? They keep the alignment, even if/when the glue gives way a bit. I'd be tempted to retrofit some, once your back (oh dear 2) allows.

 

Ian

First reason: many many years ago (47 probably) I had a 2’ radius curve with IRJs (not that I knew what an IRJ was then!) and whilst they kept the rails in line they still had a sharp kink on which a Hornby (probably Tri-ang Hornby) plate wagon would derail.

Second reason: to maximise standage in what will be the yard headshunt I wanted a measured clearance point so I had to wait until all was laid before cutting the rails.

We live and learn and I have a plan!

Paul.

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by 5BarVT
Auto mistake.

[Andy Keane]

Paul, what sort of glue did you use? It does look very much like the glue pulling away from the foam? Glueing to man made materials is always a bit tricksy in my experience.

hope the back recovers soon.

Andy

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

OH DEAR (1)

 

Having run beautifully when the Little People came, when I turned the board back over after doing the wiring 'properly' I saw this:

I've laid and cut on curves before with no problems, but its been on cork not foam.  I'm wondering if the flexibility of the foam has allowed sufficient movement for the glue to fail in shear.

 

A quick bodge and I'm hoping this will be sufficient lateral restraint.  I have another two section gaps on this board - screws will be applied as if it is crossing a board gap.  If the bodge doesn't hold a bit of lifting to insert screws under the rail head will occur.

 

Paul. 

This is off-stage, right? If so, a couple of copperclad timbers either side of the gap with a length of rail joining them together (insulated from the running rails of course) should do the trick.

 

Here's one I made earlier:

 

This one didn't need to be insulated but you get the idea.

[5BarVT]

Thanks St.Enodoc.

It is indeed off scene, and is an approach I hadn’t thought of.  It would have worked for me as I could have fitted the rough area of the joint with the track upside down and the tracksetta in place.  Only problem is that I don’t build track so copper clad sleepers don’t just fall out of the box of bits!  Maybe I’ll have to get some.  My enforced rest period means that it won’t delay progress!

Out of interest, does anyone make sleepers that match code 100 sleeper depth or will I need to pack to get them level?

 

It’s only the three on this board that are in the off scene section.  There will be two on similarly tight curves in the station throat but that will be on cork.

 

Paul.

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

1. To give it a try as others have used it.

2. Limited (largely) to non scenic area so ballasting won't make it solid to the board again (a bit sound quality, but as I have lots of separate boards and on each join the rail is soldered to a screw I'll still get noise).

3. Wickes have stopped doing the pre sealed cork and I was struggling to find some 3mm thick to match what I have on the (to be) reused boards.

 

True, but not desperately helpful!

 

Paul.

Paul I know - assuming they're still as versatile as they were - of a source of closed cell rubber(ish?) foam available in almost any thickness you care to specify and self-adhesive on one side.  Cut to ballast shoulder width it can be gently curved down to 30" radius without cutting and it does deaden sound quite well on a fairly thin ply surface.  Might be worth trying them to see if  they do 3mm thickness so drop me a PM if you're interested - the company is based in Reading and I know folk who have used it as underlay going back several decades with no ageing problems.  Photos NOW added 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The edges of the foam are machine cut so are vertical so in order to create a ballast shoulder I adopted teh simple tactic of using kitchen roll gluaed to both under;ay and baseboard to create the necessary angle.   A Welsh Valleys portable layout in four sections never completed although it did appear at a small local show as 'a work in the early stages of halting progress' .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by The Stationmaster

[5BarVT]

9 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Paul, what sort of glue did you use? It does look very much like the glue pulling away from the foam? Glueing to man made materials is always a bit tricksy in my experience.

hope the back recovers soon.

Andy

Sorry Andy, missed your post first time round.

I was also trying different glue . . .

I used PVA and then copydex on the sealed cork tiles last time around.  This time I’m using latex, i.e. thinned down copydex, and while fine for track not under stress or where the stress is taken by something more solid it’s fine . . . 
So you are probably spot on in your analysis.

Paul.

[Andy Keane]

3 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Sorry Andy, missed your post first time round.

I was also trying different glue . . .

I used PVA and then copydex on the sealed cork tiles last time around.  This time I’m using latex, i.e. thinned down copydex, and while fine for track not under stress or where the stress is taken by something more solid it’s fine . . . 
So you are probably spot on in your analysis.

Paul.

Paul

I am pondering glues at this very moment - I am going for cork roll which rails of Sheffield got for me but I am stil unsure what to fix the track down with, which will be a mix of Peco and soldered up points on fibreglass sleepers. Clearly there are trades on flexibility while drying, security and the potential to lift track later on if needed. I don't think the prefect glue exists so I am heading towards pins as well where needed. This is complicated by my decision to use Peco code 75 bullhead track in the station - it is remarkably floppy which at least means it won't pull on the glue but I worry about any glue that sets to quickly before I get chance to do fine adjustments. It almost needs card templates cutting out to hold it to shape when laying. I would much appreciate any views on this - the reverse of your own problem!

regards

Andy

[Graham T]

Andy, I used neat PVA to glue Code 75 flexitrack down onto cork sheet - no pins.  The track hasn't moved, but was also relatively easy to lift when I needed to for some fault rectification!

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Paul I know - assuming they're still as versatile as they were - of a source of closed cell rubber(ish?) foam available in almost any thickness you care to specify and self-adhesive on one side.  Cut to ballast shoulder width it can be gently curved down to 30" radius without cutting and it does deaden sound quite well on a fairly thin ply surface.  Might be worth trying them to see if  they do 3mm thickness so drop me a PM if you're interested - the company is based in Reading and I know folk who have used it as underlay going back several decades with no ageing problems.  Photos NOW added 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The edges of the foam are machine cut so are vertical so in order to create a ballast shoulder I adopted teh simple tactic of using kitchen roll gluaed to both under;ay and baseboard to create the necessary angle.   A Welsh Valleys portable layout in four sections never completed although it did appear at a small local show as 'a work in the early stages of halting progress' .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Platform 16! That would have been some layout if you'd finished it.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Sorry Andy, missed your post first time round.

I was also trying different glue . . .

I used PVA and then copydex on the sealed cork tiles last time around.  This time I’m using latex, i.e. thinned down copydex, and while fine for track not under stress or where the stress is taken by something more solid it’s fine . . . 
So you are probably spot on in your analysis.

Paul.

I use water-based impact adhesive, as I have for many years. It sticks plastic (both SMP and Peco) sleepers to both foam and cork very well. You can adjust the alignment, gently, if you don't press the track down hard first time.