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Farish new 8F


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7 hours ago, queensquare said:

Hopefully, reports of them flying off the shelves will encourage them to do more 2mm/N steam.


An update of some of the older range to the same standard would be nice. A loco drive   Black 5 to this level with sound options would fly equally as well, if not better, given their wide geographical coverage and use on almost every type of service. 
 

The only tech addition I’d really like to see now is either factory fitted stay alive, or provision for it to be added on the PCB. Soldering wires onto the the next 18 connections is a PITA! 
 

Tom. 

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Two steam ranges with sound and two diesel ranges sound ready is where we are, the 108 is a sort of inbetweener - some have sound but fitted the hard way.

 

I would expect perhaps a Peak range with sound to follow the OO Peaks and the 40s, and a Black 5 / Jubilee chassis revision as per the 8F to follow as well.

 

The 08 is another item that needs attention - it's not even got a PCB.

 

Next18 with speaker fitted seems to be the new standard though which I am very pleased about.

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10 hours ago, TomE said:

 

The only tech addition I’d really like to see now is either factory fitted stay alive, or provision for it to be added on the PCB. Soldering wires onto the the next 18 connections is a PITA! 
 

Tom. 

 

I don't have any next18 fitted locos and am unlikely to get any but I though one of the main aims with it was that all connections would be via the PCB. Are there no provided solder pads for stay-alive on them? Seems a shame if not.

 

Using the newer coreless in such as the 03/04/08 would certainly allow DCC ready fitment, but whether sound was readily feasible I'm not too sure about, I know it's been done, but not with the present size decoders. No doubt that will change.

 

Izzy

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Having hard wired a DCC decoder in my 08 (I drilled through the bulkhead and put the decoder in the cab area) this was only possible with a very small decoder. I doubt that it would be possible with today's choices (6 pin or Next 18) to make one fit easily for "plug and play". Indeed the only possible option for simple DCC plug and play I can see is a smaller type of 90 degree 6pin socket on the floor of the cab and use of a Zimo MX 616 or similar (8mm x 8mm x 2.4mm) plugged in vertically. The problem is that currently it is the decoder socket that takes up much of the space needed rather than the chip.

 

But then I don't claim to be any kind of expert!

 

Roy

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11 hours ago, TomE said:

An update of some of the older range to the same standard would be nice.

Absolutely. I’d love to see the V2 upgraded to this standard - an obvious gap I’d have thought.  Also, although not in my area of interest, the Crab & the Midland 4-4-0.

 

RT

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Apologies for straying into wishlist territory but there are lots of classes that have never been touched in N e.g. Southern Railway 4-6-0 locos.

 

But the 8F looks magnificent and awfully tempting.  I'm not sure whether to wait for a plan DC late crest one or buy an early emblem example and some transfers.

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Farish have a DCC sound fitted class 14 due some time - 372-950ASF.

 

I wonder if they'll borrow from the technology in the NGS Hunslet and give us a DCC ready, but very DC friendly class 03, 04 or 08?

 

Missing locos? Agree about the SR 4-6-0 - N15 777 Sir Lamiel would be good for my 1980s steam specials. Otherwise, the 2-6-0s are noticeable by their absence (unless you model SR!). As 43xx, Crab or K1 (LNER Green as number2005 please) would be nice.

 

Steven B.

Edited by Steven B
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3 hours ago, scottystitch said:

 

Hello,

 

Can you elaborate what you mean by fitted the hard way?

 

Best

 

Scott.

I understand it's still a 6 pin PCB with a speaker in a housing, so the non sound 108 is just as it was when first released.  The others coming out now are designed around Next18 and have a speaker fitted.

 

The next class 14 appears to be a Next18 model as well, the non sound version shows the Next18 chip in the additional items.  If that is Next18 then an 08 cannot be far away and will the Panniers/Jinties get an upgrade too in due course.

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20 hours ago, woodenhead said:

I understand it's still a 6 pin PCB with a speaker in a housing, so the non sound 108 is just as it was when first released.  The others coming out now are designed around Next18 and have a speaker fitted.

 

The next class 14 appears to be a Next18 model as well, the non sound version shows the Next18 chip in the additional items.  If that is Next18 then an 08 cannot be far away and will the Panniers/Jinties get an upgrade too in due course.

 

As I said, I very much doubt the 08 will be Next 18 as there simply is no room for even the smallest Next 18 chip. I think Steven B's suggestion of a pre-installed decoder akin to the NGS Hunslet would be more likely. I absolutely agree that DCC in some shape or form for the 08 out of the box is a "must" nowadays so I too would hope that something is on the horizon. It isn't that hard to wire in a chip it is true, but people's expectations have moved on since the 08's original launch, and I would have thought that this loco is a real cash-cow so worth the investment.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 09/12/2020 at 16:11, queensquare said:

As others have reported, haulage is more than adequate. Once I'd fitted a DG temporarily in the NEM socket I tried her from a standing start on the bank with the thirty POs and a pair of six wheel brake vans which I built during lockdown 1. She handled these with ease and would almost certainly have taken many more but I ran out of room at the Junction end. I didn't take any pictures as my the 1920s train looked a little out of place with the shiny black 8F - the photos show the loco posed with pretty much my entire collection of 16T minerals amounting to around a dozen! ....

With  my finescale hat on, the abandonment of the Farish split chassis is a shame as it makes converting the loco to 2FS more difficult involving turning the tyres off and replacing them with 2FS tyres available from the Association. A friend whose lathe skills are much better than mine has already agreed to do this for me in exchange for some buildings though it is hoped, in time, that the Association may be able to produce some drop in wheels.

 

Overall, this is a superb addition to the Farish range. Hopefully, reports of them flying off the shelves will encourage them to do more 2mm/N steam.

 

Jerry

20201125_103549.jpg.53d63e12f338ecd844d5aad45e881504.jpg

 

20201125_103636.jpg.d4eb2f41cec715afa5dc392e5a91c8d3.jpg

 

 

As indicated in the 2mm part of RMWeb, I succumbed to an 8F. It’s hauling capacity may be a function of the traction tyres on the rear wheels. Replacing these with steel tyres may loose quite a bit of performance, but a weighted tender could then help significantly. 
 

Tim

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When Dapol's 9F came out it was roundly panned for being very wide over the valve gear.

 

On another forum a Farish sound-fitted 8F has been measured over the valve gear and it is WIDER than the Dapol 9F re-measured to check.

 

Utter silence about the width......  Too taken aback by the beauty of the loco to notice?

 

Les

who has solved the problem of not being able to run Dapol 9Fs both ways round Hawthorn Dene on the same day in case they met in the wrong place by selling the layout....

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56 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

On another forum a Farish sound-fitted 8F has been measured over the valve gear and it is WIDER than the Dapol 9F re-measured to check.

 

The Farish loco does need that width to get the waggly bits to clear each other. The problem with the 9F isn't the valve gear as such but the cylinders which stick out like a fat kid's waterwings.

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53 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

When Dapol's 9F came out it was roundly panned for being very wide over the valve gear.

 

On another forum a Farish sound-fitted 8F has been measured over the valve gear and it is WIDER than the Dapol 9F re-measured to check.

 

Utter silence about the width......  Too taken aback by the beauty of the loco to notice?

 

Les

who has solved the problem of not being able to run Dapol 9Fs both ways round Hawthorn Dene on the same day in case they met in the wrong place by selling the layout....

 

Thankfully one of our Association members is in the process of drawing up a replacement valve gear etch which will further improve what is already a superb model. Locos with complex outside motion are always going to be over width so long as  the main N gauge market requires them to go round gas works curves.

 

Jerry

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30 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

The Farish loco does need that width to get the waggly bits to clear each other. The problem with the 9F isn't the valve gear as such but the cylinders which stick out like a fat kid's waterwings.

 

As an alternative- to move them inboard would you make them underscale in size, oval in shape or restrict the play in the leading wheels meaning the loco couldn't negotiate the radius of curve most of us are forced to accept?

 

The widest part of the Dapol 9F is the valve gear at 21.2mm.  The cylinders are about a millimetre narrower, set at just far enough apart to allow the "waggly bits" to miss each other when the leading pair of drivers moves to left and right- to allow it to go round curves that we are forced to adopt in the real world.  2mm Finescale modellers could move them inboard if they restricted the lateral movement of the first pair of drivers.

 

The 8F will be over-wide at the same place on the valve gear for the same reason.  Certainly my WDs are about 20.5 to 21mm across the widest point of the valve gear  with lateral play in the front pair of drivers.

 

It isn't an issue- if you are going to sell enough locos to make them viable you have to make them go round sharp corners, and the Germans manage better on tight curves than we do- my new Class BR44 2-10-0 will happily take a 192mm curve (a little under 8" or an inch sharper than UK radius 1), though by the time it gets to the UK it is the thick end of £100 dearer....

 

Incidentally, while measuring up the WD I noticed that on this particular one (which has run every day of every show Hawthorn Dene or Croft Spa has attended) the wheel treads are starting to wear to Copper coloured.  I had thought I could only wear out Dapol B1s with high mileage.....

 

Les

 

 

 

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On 28/12/2020 at 22:52, queensquare said:

 

Thankfully one of our Association members is in the process of drawing up a replacement valve gear etch which will further improve what is already a superb model. Locos with complex outside motion are always going to be over width so long as  the main N gauge market requires them to go round gas works curves.

 

Jerry

 

Sadly my replacement motion parts will make the loco look prettier, but not really very much narrower.

 

The requirement to negotiate tight curves is only one of the issues here. Even if N gauge locos only had to run on straight track, their motion would still need to be wider than the real thing,. Because the combination of (track gauge + 2 * driving wheel thickness) is greater than the prototype, and this applies equally to N and 2mm Finescale. The 4mm boys have it easier, as OO track gauge is 2.33mm less than the prototype, meaning their cylinders can still be set at scale width.   

 

There is a trick used in several 2mm finescale steam loco kits (including my own) which I think that N gauge RTR manufacturers could do as well. Basically make the crosshead and slidebars sit subtly further out in the cylinder than the prototype does. No one will ever notice this, and it allows the cylinders to be narrower than they otherwise would need to be.

 

Sadly our passengers will need to continue jumping big gaps to board their coaches, just so the steam locos can get past the platforms!

 

Chris

 

 

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On 28/12/2020 at 20:51, Les1952 said:

 

 

Les

who has solved the problem of not being able to run Dapol 9Fs both ways round Hawthorn Dene on the same day in case they met in the wrong place by selling the layout....

That did happen occasionally on Chiltern Green with two Minitrix 9Fs. 
 

Tim

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  • 2 weeks later...

My first DCC sound fitted loco's arrived recently - the recently released class 31 in green and the 8F late crest. I'm blown away by the addition of sound even though I'm only running them on DC on a test loop of track. Both loco's are silky smooth at slow running straight out of the box. However, I've noticed that my 8F is behaving like it has 2 and a 1/2 cylinders and I'm getting 5 beats per revolution and so it sounds like it's running faster than it actually is.

I'm not complaining, just an observation, and it doesn't worry me as I plan on running them on DCC to get the full benefit of sound anyway. I assume they're all fitted with the same sound file so has anyone else noticed this?

 

Regards
Hector

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I counted four beats per revolution for my 8F albeit not extremely scientifically. I think it sounds really good personally, and is probably pretty close to correct. If you consider the small wheels the chuff rate will be pretty fast even at lower speeds.

 

You can adjust the "chuff rate" by changing CVs, but from those accounts I have read it seems a pretty hit and miss process to me, so I chose to leave my sound fitted locos alone, even though some two cylinder models' exhausts seem a tad less than four beats per revolution.

 

Roy

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Reading all the comments concerning the Farish sound versions of both the class 31 and Stanier 8f steam locomotive , there appears to a high level of approval. I have several diesels equipped with sound , and as a whole extremely pleased, but in an exhibition environment the sound is often lost in the ambience of the venue, often to other exhibitors pleasure I aways thought sound in n gauge locomotives was not worth the effort, and the earlier release of the GWR Castle I had mixed views;

however with the new re-tooled  8f then my thoughts have changed . In OO gauge I have always liked the sound files produced by the specialists . I won’t mention any names for fear of favouritism, my next purchase will be a non sound version  together with  a sound chip and sound file from my favourite supplier . This may not be everyone’s preferred option and Bachmann are trying to venture into the sound market, and making a good effort , revitalising a limited range of models which are viable . Therefore  I believe the future looks bright ,even if the wallet will be emptied sooner. I wonder if any of the readers have gone down this route and could share their experience . My own experience ,the commercial market of sound fitted locomotives off the shelf; the sound file  whilst being good and representing. There has a few short comings particularly around the “play value options”. There are usually three or four sound options modellers will never use on of the shelf models. With the options of non sound locomotives being available I wonder If over a long term putting a sound chip in after purchase with the appropriate sound file is a better option, and worth the time rather than tweaking the various CV values. The distinct advantage here is these are not included in the after market fit options .Working the cost difference the value is a marginal difference , unless you go down the active drive route , which gives a real feel of driving a steam locomotive or diesel , driving to the beat,  then  this is  unique  value of sound which becomes apparent when you play trains immersing in a distant memory. 

I can only wish the B1 and Black 5 locomotives are re-tooled soon - food for thought . 

 

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I got my 31 with the sound fitted, but my Dapol 50, Farish 40 both have Digitrains ActiveDrive decoders and I am waiting on 4 new zimo sound decoders for my DMUs, again Digitrains ActiveDrives.

 

In the home environment the sound is perfectly pleasant, and not disturbing others in the house so everybody is happy.

 

Given that before Christmas I was firmly a DC modeller and now I've sold all my non DCC ready locos apart from an 08, I think I am a convert.

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22 hours ago, Roy L S said:

I counted four beats per revolution for my 8F albeit not extremely scientifically. I think it sounds really good personally, and is probably pretty close to correct. If you consider the small wheels the chuff rate will be pretty fast even at lower speeds.

 

You can adjust the "chuff rate" by changing CVs, but from those accounts I have read it seems a pretty hit and miss process to me, so I chose to leave my sound fitted locos alone, even though some two cylinder models' exhausts seem a tad less than four beats per revolution.

 

Roy

 

Having listened to Farish factory fitted sound steamers the synchronisation is very impressive.  I just wish Hornby had sung from the same hymn sheet with TTS sound....

 

Adjusting CVs to get synchronisation isn't difficult, just time consuming.  It does help to have an old-fashioned analogue device to hand in the form of a pencil and paper, however.

 

Les

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11 hours ago, 4firstimes said:

Reading all the comments concerning the Farish sound versions of both the class 31 and Stanier 8f steam locomotive , there appears to a high level of approval. I have several diesels equipped with sound , and as a whole extremely pleased, but in an exhibition environment the sound is often lost in the ambience of the venue, often to other exhibitors pleasure I aways thought sound in n gauge locomotives was not worth the effort, and the earlier release of the GWR Castle I had mixed views;

however with the new re-tooled  8f then my thoughts have changed . In OO gauge I have always liked the sound files produced by the specialists . I won’t mention any names for fear of favouritism, my next purchase will be a non sound version  together with  a sound chip and sound file from my favourite supplier . This may not be everyone’s preferred option and Bachmann are trying to venture into the sound market, and making a good effort , revitalising a limited range of models which are viable . Therefore  I believe the future looks bright ,even if the wallet will be emptied sooner. I wonder if any of the readers have gone down this route and could share their experience . My own experience ,the commercial market of sound fitted locomotives off the shelf; the sound file  whilst being good and representing. There has a few short comings particularly around the “play value options”. There are usually three or four sound options modellers will never use on of the shelf models. With the options of non sound locomotives being available I wonder If over a long term putting a sound chip in after purchase with the appropriate sound file is a better option, and worth the time rather than tweaking the various CV values. The distinct advantage here is these are not included in the after market fit options .Working the cost difference the value is a marginal difference , unless you go down the active drive route , which gives a real feel of driving a steam locomotive or diesel , driving to the beat,  then  this is  unique  value of sound which becomes apparent when you play trains immersing in a distant memory. 

I can only wish the B1 and Black 5 locomotives are re-tooled soon - food for thought . 

 

 

I have three N-Gauge locos retro-fitted with sound.  A WD with a Pauliebanger sound file fitted by Jeremy at Digitrains before he decided N Gauge was too small, and a 2MT and a Dapol A3 fitted with YouChoos sound by Wickness Models.  All needed a little tweaking to get the synchronisation to my exact satisfaction (all were close- within plus or minus 2).  All work slightly differently.

 

Of the three the A3 is perhaps the least satisfactory, largely because the prototype for the sound file is Flying Scotsman, which has an anaemic and unsatisfying whistle. At speed the prototype tends to lose the individual chuffs, and this is reflected in the model.  On Hawthorn Dene it showed off its repertoire (as did the WD) by stopping at a signal placed out front for that purpose.  Croft Spa is a prototype which has no signals in the area modelled other than ground signals, no reason for an A3 to stop out front. 

 

In the case of the other two the sound files have been more reliable than the models themselves.  The WD has had to have its valve gear replaced on one side after it shed a pin- the sound fitting invalidated the warranty so getting this done was problematic and only resolved when Lee Palmer set up his own business (many thanks, Lee).  The 2MT cogs at speed steps 1 and 2 of 128, which wouldn't normally show up except that with a sound fitted loco you do tend to shunt that bit more slowly.

 

However, all things considered if the layout is suitable I would recommend sound fitting- Croft Spa isn't suitable as most trains dash or trundle across the front which isn't really the best use of sound.  If I had a layout which involved more shunting that is the direction I would be looking to.  Maybe the next project?

 

Les

 

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  • 4 months later...

I got my sound fitted 8f last week and its brilliant apart from a slight issue when it comes around a left then right turn on the layout. When it's half way through the right turn the front drive wheels jam, so the whole thing stops and I have to 'click it' out of the jam before it will run again. I've had no issues with any other locos or rolling stock around this curve, anyone else had a similar issue or got any ideas? 

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2 hours ago, RichSt said:

I got my sound fitted 8f last week and its brilliant apart from a slight issue when it comes around a left then right turn on the layout. When it's half way through the right turn the front drive wheels jam, so the whole thing stops and I have to 'click it' out of the jam before it will run again. I've had no issues with any other locos or rolling stock around this curve, anyone else had a similar issue or got any ideas? 

How tight is the curve? Does the jam happen where 2 bits of track join - if so it could be the curve tightens up due to a slight kink. 

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