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The Funeral Trains of Queen Victoria


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After some, as usual, delightful discussion of this subject on Castle Aching, I had promised to report on the book devoted to this subject:

 

It is an Oakwood Press volume entitled Goodbye to Victoria the last Queen Empress, the story of Queen Victoria's Funeral Train.

 

I somehow sense that the author, Peter J Keat, doesn't know quite when to stop where book titles are concerned. I might add that the eponymous monarch was also the first "Queen Empress", so far as I am aware.  

 

Though train is mentioned in the singular, in reality Her Late Majesty had two trains, one LB&SCR and one GWR, plus the pilots, and they involved three railway companies and their locomotives, the third being the London & South Western.

 

It is a most informative book and a pleasant read.  Among the interesting facts presented is that, at the time of these stirring events, the author's grandfather was Lord Robert's personal bugle boy.  I am assuming that this is not some military euphemism. hitherto unknown to me.

 

The scheme of events in overview is that Victoria died at Osborne on the Isle of Wight, and was taken to the mainland in a diminutive royal paddle steamer.  The coffin was entrained at Royal Clarence Yard, Gosport. The LB&SCR Royal Train was used with strengthening vehicles and a GW Salon for the coffin. The LSWR took the train as far as Fareham, and the Brighton from Fareham to Victoria.  The cortège crossed the capital on foot and GWR Royal Train carriages and strengthening coaches took the Queen and the funeral party from Paddington to Windsor for the funeral, after which it was a short procession to interment at Frogmore. 

 

I hope that the carriage books by Gould for the Brighton and Russell for the GW should enable me to confirm the coaches/diagrams involved. I just haven't had five minutes to look as yet. 

 

So, hopefully more to follow ....

 

In the meantime, HMY Alberta Entering Portsmouth Harbour with the Body of Queen Victoria, 1 February 1901, by William Lionel Wyllie, courtesy of Wiki:

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I believe that the train to Victoria was late and rather than the usual 40mph maximum that HMQ requested she was doing 80 mph on the approaches to Horsham.

I think that was actually down Holmwood Bank, before the reverse curves at Pixham, just south of Dorking. Hamilton Ellis quoted this, and, like me, he was a Dorking boy.

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I think that was actually down Holmwood Bank, before the reverse curves at Pixham, just south of Dorking. Hamilton Ellis quoted this, and, like me, he was a Dorking boy.

 

There was a report somewhere, I don't remember where, that a brake application was required to allow the negotiation of the bend at the North end of the station. I don't know what the restriction is as I have not seen a restriction sign anywhere on the approaches to it.

 

I was born in Dorking, but raised in Horsham.

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The scheme of events in overview is that Victoria died at Osborne on the Isle of Wight, and was taken to the mainland in a diminutive royal paddle steamer.  The coffin was entrained at Royal Clarence Yard, Gosport. The LB&SCR Royal Train was used with strengthening vehicles and a GW Salon for the coffin. The LSWR took the train as far as Fareham, and the Brighton from Fareham to Victoria.  The cortège crossed the capital on foot and GWR Royal Train carriages and strengthening coaches took the Queen and the funeral party from Paddington to Windsor for the funeral, after which it was a short procession to interment at Frogmore. 

 

In which case, this photo does not show the funeral train as it appears to be the Great Western train. However, I don't know what the Brighton's Royal Train carriages looked like. I'd precis'd Nock, who says the 80 mph was attained between Havant and Ford Junction - but as usual isn't specific as to his sources. C. Hamilton Ellis wasn't born at the time either so presumably both are basing their stories on the same contemporary accounts - does anyone know what these were?

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In which case, this photo does not show the funeral train as it appears to be the Great Western train. However, I don't know what the Brighton's Royal Train carriages looked like.

 

I agree, that picture looks more like the GW train.

 

The Brighton Royal vehicles are in the post above, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107713-castle-aching/?p=3204309

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Ah I see - as in the Jas Longden painting. At first sight one could confuse these with the Great Western Diamond Jubilee set - they share the "American" turned-down clerestory - but the lower roof profile is a pronounced single arc on the Brighton vehicles, quite distinct from the Great Western's three-centre profile - what one would call a cove roof in a LNW context. The roof arc is made all the more pronounced for being carried on over the end duckets. When were the Brighton vehicles built?

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Compound,

 

if you go back to the amble round this topic in CA, you will see that the photo you link to doesn't show the funeral train, even leaving aside the coaches, because the loco is not in funereal garb, but celebratory. IIRC the LBSC might have doubl ed-headed the funeral train anyway. And, my guess is that the picture was taken in summer, too.

 

Lots of things written by C H-E read as if he was there on the spot, when he wasn't, which shows that he was a good writer, and maybe a yarn-spinner on occasion.

 

Kevin

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Compound,

 

if you go back to the amble round this topic in CA, you will see that the photo you link to doesn't show the funeral train, even leaving aside the coaches, because the loco is not in funereal garb, but celebratory. IIRC the LBSC might have doubl ed-headed the funeral train anyway. And, my guess is that the picture was taken in summer, too.

 

Lots of things written by C H-E read as if he was there on the spot, when he wasn't, which shows that he was a good writer, and maybe a yarn-spinner on occasion.

 

Kevin

 

Yes, that's right.  The funeral loco had large swags down the boiler sides.

 

The colours were purple and white, interestingly, so those were purple swags, not black.  

 

I don't think the train was double headed. On the first stretch after the LB&SCR loco took over from the SW's, there was a SW crew in addition to the Brighton's to pilot.  I understood had that to be a pilot crew, not a pilot loco, but this might be a point to check.   

 

Pictures of the train were rare and of poor quality because, for some reason, it was not supposed to be photographed.  I'll have to dig the book out again!  The ones I have seen do not show double heading.

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Yes, that's right.  The funeral loco had large swags down the boiler sides.

 

The colours were purple and white, interestingly, so those were purple swags, not black.  

 

I don't think the train was double headed. On the first stretch after the LB&SCR loco took over from the SW's, there was a SW crew in addition to the Brighton's to pilot.  I understood had that to be a pilot crew, not a pilot loco, but this might be a point to check.   

 

Pictures of the train were rare and of poor quality because, for some reason, it was not supposed to be photographed.  I'll have to dig the book out again!  The ones I have seen do not show double heading.

 

Nock says the train engine was B4 No. 54 Empress and the pilot engine was B4 No. 53 Sirdar. He says the pilot engine was dispatched 10 minutes ahead of the train*. This was normal royal train practice throughout the nineteenth century - on the LNWR for the journey to/from Balmoral even the pilot was double-headed... I think the idea was that once the signalman had accepted the royal train pilot engine he was forbidden to accept anything else other than the royal train itself. Nevertheless, if running hard as on this occasion, it must have been a nagging worry for the driver knowing that there was a light engine just a few blocks ahead. 

 

I linked to the photo of Empress before. The 2nd February 1901 was a bitterly cold day with snow on the ground, I don't suppose the light was that good either. I think that's sufficient reason for photos to be rare and of poor quality!

 

*As usual, Nock doesn't give his sources.

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Ah, that’s what I’d misremembered, the running of a “sweeper” loco.

 

Sirdar was a B4, I think. B5 was used fleetingly as class designation for the atlantics iirc.

 

My typo, now corrected. These two engines were, if the Wikipedia page on the class is correct, the most recent to traffic at the time; in fact only the second and third members of the class, the bulk entering traffic in summer/autumn 1901 as they were delivered by Sharp, Stewart.

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These two engines were, if the Wikipedia page on the class is correct, the most recent to traffic at the time; in fact only the second and third members of the class, the bulk entering traffic in summer/autumn 1901 as they were delivered by Sharp, Stewart.

 

Burtt confirms this. 52 was the first built, followed by these two, all erected at Brighton. 47-51 and 55-74 were then built by Sharp Stewart, hence being known as Scotchmen. Then Brighton built 42-46 May - July 1902. 

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I had a book which had details of the instructions for the running of the train coveying the Tzar of Russia on his way to Balmoral. A pilot loco (CR 123) was to run 20 minutes ahead of the Royal train and after it had passed each lengthman had to walk and inspect his length. Also any other trains on either line had to be either looped or placed in sidings until the Royal train had passed. Crews of these trains were under strict instructions to ensure that their locos were not 'blowing of' as the train was passing. Unfortunately I loaned out the book and didn't get it back, so I can't confirm all the details.

 

Jim

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The 2nd February 1901 was a bitterly cold day with snow on the ground, I don't suppose the light was that good either. I think that's sufficient reason for photos to be rare and of poor quality.

I've always understood that there was an embargo on photography, presumably for security reasons, which would have been enforced by the presence of policemen along the route. Hence the one known shot of the train en route at Carshalton was taken at some distance.
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If there was, my gut feeling is that it would have been more to avoid tasteless commercial exploitation, rather than security.

 

Would be interesting to know if it was in any way legally enforceable. Was there a ‘Defence of the Realm Act’ in being that could have been stretched, using security as a pretext, to cover it? Any lawyers present?

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The Keat book has this to say ...

 

"Because of the number of crowned heads and other Royal and important personages on the train along with all the security implications, the authorities decided that no photographers would be allowed access to any part of the route.   The whole length of all the lines the Royal Train traversed was patrolled by specially delegated railway employees.  The result of this was that any photographs of the Royal Funeral train are very rare and so far, after years of searching, the author has only had a handful come into his possession".

 

 

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The locals were clearly in the know and out in some numbers. Any ideas on the locations?

 

Splendid tall double-armed signal in the first photo!

 

Top left Mitcham Common. Top right "approaching south London"

 

Bottom, Carshalton

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Top left Mitcham Common. Top right "approaching south London"

 

Bottom, Carshalton

No where in Carshalton looks like that any more.

 

Here’s the same location, taken front north street, it’s the school fields in front, there is a railway line there honest !!!

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