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jools1959

EMT ex GC HST power cars and trailers

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I see that East Midland Trains are now using the ex Grand Central HST power cars in service with their HST trailer cars but what are their plans for the ex GC trailer cars? I know they were converted from loco hauled Mk 3 stock but are they compatible with production HST trailer cars with their 3 phase electrical system or retained the standard LHCS electrical system?

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Yes the trailers will be compatible as some of the GC stock was HST mk3s, also Cross Country run ex loco hauled stock mixed with HST Mk3.

Since the power cars provide the ETH, the loco hauled stuff would have to modified to HST compatibility for the electrics to work.

 

Jo

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The ex-GC trailers are all effectively HST trailers now in terms of couplings and Electric Train Supply, the former LHCS Mk3s were converted to make them into HST trailers.

 

The sets are formed as 2+6. GC had them as DM-TF-TRSB-TSD-TS-TS-TF*-DM (*declassified). EMT has swapped the GC TRSB for off-lease ex-GWR TRFB, these being the same buffet type as in EMT's other sets, they have also changed the disabled accommodation from being in a TS to being in a TF, again as per their other HST sets, thus the sets are now formed:

 

DM-TFD-TRFB-TS (ex-TF)-TS-TS-TS-DM

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The former Mk3 loco hauled coaches have an invertor underneath to accomodate the HST's 415v AC train supply - this was apparently easier to do than converting all the wiring and equipment to HST spec. So yes , they are compatible.

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The former Mk3 loco hauled coaches have an invertor underneath to accomodate the HST's 415v AC train supply - this was apparently easier to do than converting all the wiring and equipment to HST spec. So yes , they are compatible.

 

I always thought the major difference was the motor alternator set that the LHCS had to convert standard ETS to the three phase required for the electrical systems?

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The seating arrangements in the GC Mark 3s were quite different though, with seats in Standard Class at First Class spacing, to line up with the windows.  So I don't think they would really be able to substitute an ex GC set for one of their own for example as the seat reservations wouldn't fit (neither would the capacity be the same).

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So the ex-GC sets not only fail to meet EMT standards for customer comfort by having too much space, but also the cleanliness standards by being kept fairly immaculate rather than the grotty, stained and careworn red seats of the EMT sets.

 

EMT is declining fast in all respects as it approaches the crumbling fag-end of its franchise.

 

Dava

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So the ex-GC sets not only fail to meet EMT standards for customer comfort by having too much space, but also the cleanliness standards by being kept fairly immaculate rather than the grotty, stained and careworn red seats of the EMT sets.

 

EMT is declining fast in all respects as it approaches the crumbling fag-end of its franchise.

 

Dava

I know I'm getting on a bit but don't think I've reached the fag end stage yet:).

Presuming/hoping you're not including the staff in your comments

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I always thought the major difference was the motor alternator set that the LHCS had to convert standard ETS to the three phase required for the electrical systems?

 

To be honest I'm not fully conversant with what goes on underneath a Mark 3 coach , but I do know that the XC trailers converted from LHCS had some electrical contraption there that enables them to work with the power car ETS , and that they are somewhat troublesome. My remit is mainly the power cars at either end.

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To be honest I'm not fully conversant with what goes on underneath a Mark 3 coach , but I do know that the XC trailers converted from LHCS had some electrical contraption there that enables them to work with the power car ETS , and that they are somewhat troublesome. My remit is mainly the power cars at either end.

 

The ex LHC on XC are done to a different standard to the GC ones, they were overhauled at Wabtec and the air con etc was replaced with HST style modules and it is the battery charger that is totally different to that fitted on HSTs rather than a Brush 3 phase battery charger it is unit supplied by Powernetics.

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I know I'm getting on a bit but don't think I've reached the fag end stage yet:).

Presuming/hoping you're not including the staff in your comments

 

I should have made it clear that I dont include the frontline staff.

 

The EMT staff at our local station [Loughborough] and on the trains are as fed up with the crumbling edge of quality from the franchisee management. A small example is the installation, at great expense, of new ticket barriers at a number of stations on the London line, replacing barriers which were often left open. these now have to be staffed because they don't recognise all the tickets, such as park & ride, actually issued from the stations, resulting in delays and frustration. 6 weeks after commissioning the problem has not been resolved. Just a bit of offsite coding by the contractor should resolve it but its not been done and EMT don't reply to emails. Unlike the claim on their posters, they dont listen and pay attention to getting the small things right.

 

Dava

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I should have made it clear that I dont include the frontline staff.

 

The EMT staff at our local station [Loughborough] and on the trains are as fed up with the crumbling edge of quality from the franchisee management. A small example is the installation, at great expense, of new ticket barriers at a number of stations on the London line, replacing barriers which were often left open. these now have to be staffed because they don't recognise all the tickets, such as park & ride, actually issued from the stations, resulting in delays and frustration. 6 weeks after commissioning the problem has not been resolved. Just a bit of offsite coding by the contractor should resolve it but its not been done and EMT don't reply to emails. Unlike the claim on their posters, they dont listen and pay attention to getting the small things right.

 

Dava

 

As a daily traveller, the condition of the rolling stock has been in decline for some time. Successive, short term contract extensions have prolonged the decline to the point where there's barely a Meridian coach which doesn't have at least one misted window and seats are looking decidedly tired. Worryingly, door faults seem to be judged a minor issue and trains are running with doors locked out of use. In one instance the door of the adjacent coach nearest to the buffet counter was locked out of use, so with no service door at the counter end of the buffet coach, two complete coaches had access to only two doors, at opposite ends of the coaches. 

 

The ex GC stock is no better mind, the seat trim is dull and the upholstery is sagging.  Despite a deep clean before entering service, they still look as tired as the EMT stock. They don't seem too reliable either, on two afternoons of the five that I've caught the 17.47 ex LStP since the timetable change, there's been a Meridian substituted.

 

The prospects for Stagecoach to retain the franchise must be remote given the history elsewhere, but overall they've done a decent job and most regulars will be disappointed to see them go if that happens. They will be a tough act to follow.

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The ex-GC trailers are all effectively HST trailers now in terms of couplings and Electric Train Supply, the former LHCS Mk3s were converted to make them into HST trailers.

 

The sets are formed as 2+6. GC had them as DM-TF-TRSB-TSD-TS-TS-TF*-DM (*declassified). EMT has swapped the GC TRSB for off-lease ex-GWR TRFB, these being the same buffet type as in EMT's other sets, they have also changed the disabled accommodation from being in a TS to being in a TF, again as per their other HST sets, thus the sets are now formed:

 

DM-TFD-TRFB-TS (ex-TF)-TS-TS-TS-DM

 

No TGS? Do they use the former guard's compartment in one of the powercars?

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On a sort of related note, what is the situation with EMT HST power cars being used on East Coast? I've seen some recently and wondered if it was due to shortages/unavailability or just because until recently Stagecoach was involved with both franchises.

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On a sort of related note, what is the situation with EMT HST power cars being used on East Coast? I've seen some recently and wondered if it was due to shortages/unavailability or just because until recently Stagecoach was involved with both franchises.

 

One set NL65 is on hire from EMT, the set is Virgin livery, but has two EMT per cars (usually). EMT also have a spare set at Cricklewood during the day, this has been used for spot hires during the day usually on a KGX - LDS and return. Odd power cars have also been used on diagrams starting at NL due to power car problems.

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