DJModels - Companies House strike-off notification content

[Marvin]

place your orders in a SAFE pair of hands.

Can you qualify how you have determined that it is 'SAFE', i.e. without risk?

 

1. rest assured there is not a problem with the future of the APT-P

 

2. if there was i would hope Dave Jones would let me know.

I do not see how (1) any assurance can be given when (2) it is based upon 'hope'.

[dogbox321]

To be honest - running a business is not easy.  Dave passing these details on is quite possibly a little embarrasing for him too, but at least he his being honest.

 

If again, I am being totally honest - Organisation is a key art in running a successful business, and whilst I am sure that Dave is doing his best, and is good at at the creation of models - most deadlines/timescales appear to come and go.  We all have weaknesses - but we have to work to our strong points and address our weaknesses.  So what I am saying is Dave, you need either some form of Help, if organizing is not your strongest point, or you need to focus and pay some attention in to how you organize your business affairs, to ensure you meet deadlines.  

 

Likewise, we all want the APT to be a success, and we know you can produce a good model - Class 71 being a notable example. The main risks would appear to be two things - 

1).  Crowdfunders loosing faith due to deadlines falling apart (reading this, some are already having doubts, and ultimately people are investing large sums of money in this venture!)

2).  Delays causing manufacturers to loose confidence, get fed up of waiting and increase prices, the longer the model takes to come to fruition.  Regarding Manufacturers loosing confidence - read Hornby CEO's synopsis of Chineese manufacturers - they like to be kept busy.  So if you miss the production slots they give you - firstly they will be annoyed at lost production time and will look to others to fill production capacity, and then your products will get pushed to the back of the queue again.  Plus, there is the risks presented by price increases the longer production takes, plus possible changes in currency variations etc.

 

Meant in the nicest possible way -  you need to get yourself organised and if you fall behind, try your best to get schedules back on track.  Not keep adding delays, delays and more delays.  As they say, if you don't plan, you plan to fail.  

 

Constructively  - Looking forward to "positive" and timely development of the APT.  You have the money coming in from Crowdfunders, experience in production and design to make a great model so ultimately you have the ideal opportunity to make this model a case study, for how DJ Models can produce a "World Class" model within a reasonable timescale. (But yes, we don't want quality to be compromised and should look at some delays "Sympathetically" - Look at Rapidos delays with the APT-E, TEA, Sterling Single, Pendolino etc. - but not all the time with everything).

 

Best Regards,

 

C.

[jjb1970]

 

I ordered 2 APTs on Friday and then read this thread. In consequence I contacted the company I ordered it off (Durham Trains of Stanley) questioning the situation.

I received a very fast reply from a company representative (which I have posted below). This reply and some additional research suggests this is a common occurrence in many companies. Unfortunately for DJMODELS, Dave still carries a certain amount the tarnish acquired by his former employers and their business model being the major factor in his starting DJM.

Since then Dave has produced numerous exceptional models in terms of quality and accuracy and have won multiple awards. The rancor held by certain companies, has encouraged amplification of every single minor discrepancy that DJmodels in all innocence have fallen into.

 

DJMODELS have proven them wrong time and time again. I say do as I have and place your orders in a SAFE pair of hands.

 

Email explanation from Durham Trains of Stanley:

Hi John

Thanks for your email. The reason for the pay-pal being frozen is that they were accusing dave as there was so much money going in then out ie to pay for scanning. So Dave Jones has spoke with lloyds explaining what's happened and are happy to open an account were future payments are paid into but takes time to link it with Daves site which i know he is rebuilding in order to take future payments. As regards the first payment Dave will send out the invoices as soon as possible and rest assured there is not a problem with the future of the APT-P if there was i would hope Dave Jones would let me know.

Being gazetted for dissolution by companies house is not a common occurrence and just one of those things. And if anyone tries to tell you otherwise then that is another big red flag.

[Legend]

To be honest - running a business is not easy. Dave passing these details on is quite possibly a little embarrasing for him too, but at least he his being honest.

 

If again, I am being totally honest - Organisation is a key art in running a successful business, and whilst I am sure that Dave is doing his best, and is good at at the creation of models - most deadlines/timescales appear to come and go. We all have weaknesses - but we have to work to our strong points and address our weaknesses. So what I am saying is Dave, you need either some form of Help, if organizing is not your strongest point, or you need to focus and pay some attention in to how you organize your business affairs, to ensure you meet deadlines.

 

Meant in the nicest possible way,

 

Best Regards,

 

C.

But there are some basics here. File your accounts in time, with the services of an accountant, this really should not be onerous,there is ample time allowed. Also pay your taxes on time . You need to make sure , of course that there’s money there to pay it, when they are due. It’s not PAYE.

 

There would have been letters notifying of company being struck off.

 

I’m sure Dave is a nice bloke , really he has done a lot to further this hobby , but the impression I’m getting is boundless enthusiasm but lacking in organisation . That can be quite a dangerous combination.

 

The whole refunding thing just sort of smacks of this lack of organisation, the confusion over is it Durham Trains of Stanley or DJM earlier in this thread. The need for proper invoicing . It’s painting a picture

Edited July 1, 2018 by Legend

[Colin_McLeod]

Most railway modellers accept that timescales for a model can slip and so they don't get all excited if a model is late.

 

Companies house on the other hand run a zero tolerance policy regarding late filing.

 

Dave's accounts were late and Dave has now experienced that zero tolerance first hand and has taken action to put things right. The experience together with being on the receiving end of some comments on here will, I am sure, mean that Dave will make damn sure all future filings are done on time.

 

Now let him get on with running his show. If Dave needs administrative help I'm sure he is capable of arranging that sooner rather than "too late"

 

I for one still have full confidence in DJM to produce the APT I have ordered and the only red flag that can be helpfully waved at this time is to Dave himself to prioritise things correctly. e.g. there comes a day every now and then when it is more important to do some boring admin work than to sort out a more interesting technical problem with the latest project.

 

Good luck Dave

 

Colin McLeod

 

 

Edit for typo

Edited July 1, 2018 by Colin_McLeod

[jjb1970]

It's not quite zero tolerance, my understanding is that they have to send two formal letters notifying the company of issues and inviting them to put things in order before gazetting a notice of dissolution. That is intended to avoid lapses or genuine errors leading to a company being dissolved.

[JSpencer]

To his credit Dave has admitted to not filing figures on time and even not filing on time for a couple of years. He just had a big kick up the rear from Companies house.

 

The issue is serious, more like a broadside to the rigging than a shot over the bows but I wish him well to speedily addressing the issue and hope he learns well from this hard lesson.

 

In a small business like this, you have to wear many caps and you to organise time for each one. He is dealing with suppliers, customers, banks, accounts, various government agencies and so on. Problems won,t go away, they will come round and kick the door down.

As a customer, there have been odd aspects I found frustrating but other aspects above expectations. Service is not consistant, it's variable, leaving me with an impression that he does so when he fancies. I just say to myself , he is busy and leave it at that but, over time, this is making it harder for me to be a customer.

I think we all want Dave to do well, and I seriously hope this is a wake call that he needs to address certain weaknesses. In business, you cannot expect the market to shape to your needs, you have to shape to theirs. Look forwards to all this blowing over and Dave getting organised so DJM bounces back like a Phoenix and I can buy some spares for a Well tank and a 92 in sector livery.

[The Stationmaster]

But there are some basics here. File your accounts in time, with the services of an accountant, this really should not be onerous,there is ample time allowed. Also pay your taxes on time . You need to make sure , of course that there’s money there to pay it, when they are due. It’s not PAYE.

 

There would have been letters notifying of company being struck off.

 

I’m sure Dave is a nice bloke , really he has done a lot to further this hobby , but the impression I’m getting is boundless enthusiasm but lacking in organisation . That can be quite a dangerous combination.

 

The whole refunding thing just sort of smacks of this lack of organisation, the confusion over is it Durham Trains of Stanley or DJM earlier in this thread. The need for proper invoicing . It’s painting a picture

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that we are not talking about a major or particularly complex business here plus the fact that it only needs to file a Micro-Entity balance sheet to Companies House.  Its last submitted balance sheet (as at 31 July 2016)  showed  £27,946 in current assets plus £500 in pre-payments and accrued income minus £18, 316 falling due to creditors within one year - giving net assets of £10,149.   As a direct comparison with another concern in the model railway business Hattons net assets with a year end date at 30 June 2016 were a shade over £3.7 million

 

In other words it's not really much more onerous than managing the sort of bank or building society account some people (not this one) have - provided the paperwork which goes to make up the accounts is kept in proper order and evertything is fully accounted for. So it is very much a managerial and organisational thing rather than anything else but when it comes to keeping official bodies informed in a timely manner it can, as here, be critical to the organisation and it has to be managed currently. 

[black and decker boy]

 

I ordered 2 APTs on Friday and then read this thread. In consequence I contacted the company I ordered it off (Durham Trains of Stanley) questioning the situation.

I received a very fast reply from a company representative (which I have posted below). This reply and some additional research suggests this is a common occurrence in many companies. Unfortunately for DJMODELS, Dave still carries a certain amount the tarnish acquired by his former employers and their business model being the major factor in his starting DJM.

Since then Dave has produced numerous exceptional models in terms of quality and accuracy and have won multiple awards. The rancor held by certain companies, has encouraged amplification of every single minor discrepancy that DJmodels in all innocence have fallen into.

 

DJMODELS have proven them wrong time and time again. I say do as I have and place your orders in a SAFE pair of hands.

 

Email explanation from Durham Trains of Stanley:

Hi John

Thanks for your email. The reason for the pay-pal being frozen is that they were accusing dave as there was so much money going in then out ie to pay for scanning. So Dave Jones has spoke with lloyds explaining what's happened and are happy to open an account were future payments are paid into but takes time to link it with Daves site which i know he is rebuilding in order to take future payments. As regards the first payment Dave will send out the invoices as soon as possible and rest assured there is not a problem with the future of the APT-P if there was i would hope Dave Jones would let me know.

But we now all know that this project is solely run by DJM and all monies go direct to DJM so your risk / reward as a crowdfunder sits 100% with DJM

 

Payment facilities changes could be excused though I can’t see why PayPal would get concerned with the crowdfunding explanation unless other matters were at play.

 

The bigger problem is the statutory reporting by DJM as a company. I run a small company, it’s not hard to prepare and file accounts. If DJM is struck off then your crowdfunding project is dead and what guarantees do you have that you get your money back from the administrators / liquidators?

[Ian Hargrave]

I ordered 2 APTs on Friday and then read this thread. In consequence I contacted the company I ordered it off (Durham Trains of Stanley) questioning the situation.

I received a very fast reply from a company representative (which I have posted below).  This reply and some additional research suggests this is a common occurrence in many companies. Unfortunately for DJMODELS, Dave still carries a certain amount the tarnish acquired by his former employers and their business model being the major factor in his starting DJM.

Since then Dave has produced numerous exceptional models in terms of quality and accuracy and have won multiple awards. The rancor held by certain companies, has encouraged amplification of every single minor discrepancy that DJmodels in all innocence have fallen into. 

 

DJMODELS have proven them wrong time and time again.  I say do as I have and place your orders in a SAFE pair of hands.

 

Email explanation from Durham Trains of Stanley:

 

Hi John

Thanks for your email. The reason for the pay-pal being frozen is that they were accusing dave as there was so much money going in then out ie to pay for scanning. So Dave Jones has spoke with lloyds explaining what's happened and are happy to open an account were future payments are paid into but takes time to link it with Daves site which i know he is rebuilding in order to take future payments. As regards the first payment Dave will send out the invoices as soon as possible and rest assured there is not a problem with the future of the APT-P if there was i would hope Dave Jones would let me know.

u

 

Dave Jones left Dapol 5 years ago.To suggest that he is somehow tainted by association with them is wildly fanciful and does neither DJM nor Dapol any favours. Apart from which,Dapol are highly sensitive to some of the innuendo that has been posted on this forum to the extent that they no longer post here and have themselves on one occasion stated their intention to take legal action against any person who in their opinion issues material they consider malicious or damaging.

 

 

The world is a different place five years on.Dapol are producing excellent models in all three scales.If Dave is suffering a hopefully temporary sticky patch it has nothing whatsoever to do with them.

[Persephone]

Before I retired I worked as an internal investigator. My cases were predominantly financial investigations into firms contracted in as service providers so I am well experienced in handling and analysis of companies house data.

 

I came across a few companies who had failed to file their accounts. It's a serious matter and to us investigating indicated 3 possibilities:1 the company does not want to disclose that they are near or at bancruptcy, 2. fraud 3. Incompetence. It could be one of these possibilities. It could be a combination or all 3.

[Vistisen]

The last few pages have taken a bit of a turn. I admit that I have also in the past cast doubts in this forum about crowd funded models. I know that as a company you have to post you financial state in accounts. And that these are to some extent public. But to see precise figures posted on a public forum is something I would not have done.

 

I really hope that the APT project succeeds. I also hope that DJM makes a profit on the project otherwise its future is not bright. I am beginning to wonder whether the whole crowd funding idea has a downside in that the participants feel that they have a right to inside information being made public, at an even more detailed level than shareholders in a PLC expect. I suspect that managing the PR side of a crowd funded project becomes a major cost factor in time if you do it yourself, in money if you get a pro to do it.

 

I have an idea that is not really thought through. But hey that's what the internet seems to be used for! Rather than crowd funding. What about crowd resourcing? Rather than investing only money, what about investing resources. A project like this for a small company like DJM needs many skills quite apart from the model production ones, f.ex. research, administration, accounting, marketing, communication, even packaging, and posting, servicing and spares and so on. There seems to be a lot of expert knowledge om the forum. why not arrange some way this knowledge  could be converted into investment? It would save small companies from having to cover all these specialized areas. At best it could make the small companies successful, at worst it might make some of us think twice before pouring our 'expert' knowledge onto the forum

Edited July 1, 2018 by Vistisen

[PMP]

I think you’ve just described a ‘co-operative’. I can see it has posibilities for a start up project/company but unfortunately not in this case.

 

It might be worth opening that discussion in the general or small suppliers forum, it might get some interesting responses.

[adb968008]

correct me where I am wrong...

 

1. But Have Kernow moved on ?

2. Hattons appear to have moved on.

3. Accurascale publically separated.

4. Much of the roadmap remains unfulfilled, including crowd funded

5. Much of the roadmap closely coincided to other manufacturers efforts.

6. Class 74 seems to have ended.

7. APT financing arrangements were unclear

8. PayPal are not releasing the funds except for refunds

9. The only other Director has terminated association to DJModels, a month before the accounts were due.

10. Companies house has issued a statement about potential dissolution.

11. n gauge class 17 ?

 

 

I was all up for the APT but the yellow flags urged caution and I gave it a miss. I’ve got to be honest i’m further away from this now than I’ve ever been, indeed if it weren’t for the confused terms of the APT earlier this year, I wouldn’t have spent the time I spent compiling the above 11 cautions.

But it’s more than an APT..how many other projects are crowd funded, when I look at the product matrix..

 

http://djmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/DJM-Matrix-May-2018v1.pdf

 

There’s not a lot in tooling, and the old accounts only show a £10k company... in 2016.

More stuff gets announced as crowd funded, piling up on the back log of other projects, on top of other projects.

 

To be fair

1. no ones lost their money

2. it seems people are getting it back

3. Dave seems to be very honest and genuine and trying his best.

 

but how sustainable is this ?

 

 

I’d be more worried that there’s more issues lurking behind the scenes than a late filing.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but provides little consolation afterwards.

Edited July 1, 2018 by adb968008

[Colin_McLeod]

There's enough comments on here to start a fireside lawyers course on company law!

[timward55]

Speaking as one of the APT crowdfunders I am not unduly worried about the companies house letter in terms of what it means for the financial position. Companies house will move to strike off a company that they think is inactive as indicated by non-filing of accounts. It does not infer a problem in the way that nasty letters from HMRC might (and I had some of those when I managed a small company).

 

As someone said directors/managers of micro-businesses have to multi-task and you can't be good at everything.

 

The equity in the company has increased in three years so something must be going right!

[chris p bacon]

Speaking as one of the APT crowdfunders I am not unduly worried about the companies house letter in terms of what it means for the financial position. Companies house will move to strike off a company that they think is inactive as indicated by non-filing of accounts. It does not infer a problem in the way that nasty letters from HMRC might (and I had some of those when I managed a small company).

 

As someone said directors/managers of micro-businesses have to multi-task and you can't be good at everything.

 

The equity in the company has increased in three years so something must be going right!

 

 

 

Eeerrrr people keep giving it money . . 

 

As for the first part of your post.  Whilst it's true that you have to multi task in small companies (as I do) you have to task the right people to do things such as accounts, the fact that a simple yet required return has not been done indicates that either the accountant is not up to the job or that they have not been given the correct information to compile the accounts.  Either way it falls on the business owner. 

I would say that in 20 years I've never had a late filing or nasty letter from HMRC as both are easily avoidable.

[jjb1970]

A lot of accountants specialise in supporting small businesses and offer some good packages at modest cost (well, certainly modest compared to the possible costs if it all goes wrong). Clearly there is some risk in selecting the right partners in any business, but then again the ability to carry out due diligence and evaluate these things is a pretty important skill for a business and most people considering opening a small business will know others who can offer recommendations if necessary.

[blueeighties]

Absolutely agreed. 6 years in for me now, it's not rocket science to keep on top of your business and ensure that everything is in order.

[Legend]

It is a simple as you give your records , in my day it was a cash book and receipts/invoices,but we’ve moved on a bit now, no doubt it’s some form of data from a computer or at least a spreadsheet. The accountant goes away and produces a set of accounts, gives advice on tax and makes the requisite returns. You pay him a fee for his services. This is the norm . These days with things like quickbooks your accountant can have direct links with your system . It really is very unusual that trading companies are under threat of being dissolved because of non filing of accounts.

[The Stationmaster]

There's enough comments on here to start a fireside lawyers course on company law! :)

 

No need for one - the full details in respect of the procedure leading up to the issue of a dissolution gazette notice are amply and very clearly explained on the relevant website which includes information on how to deal with both the letters and the gazette notice itself, the latter only being issued in the event that no response to the letters was received by the Registrar (i.e. Companies House).

 

Refer item 10.1 to see the procedures which lead up to the issue of a gazette notice -

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/company-strike-off-dissolution-and-restoration/strike-off-dissolution-and-restoration#offences-and-penalties

[LongRail]

If your business is busy then things such as filing with companies house gets left till the end . I have just filled the VAT for my business on the last day yes I knew it had to be done but I was busy I suspect Dave is the same guys if we don’t support people like Dave we get these special models, and I am putting my money where my mouth is

[chris p bacon]

If your business is busy then things such as filing with companies house gets left till the end . I have just filled the VAT for my business on the last day yes I knew it had to be done but I was busy I suspect Dave is the same guys if we don’t support people like Dave we get these special models, and I am putting my money where my mouth is

 

 

If the business is that busy that you can't spend the time to carry out simple but required tasks you employ someone who can.  If the business doesn't make enough money to do that even though all your time is taken up with running it, then there is something wrong with the business.

 

If like me you are owed VAT on every return,  you file it on the first day.

[jjb1970]

I think something that gets lost a lot on RMWeb is that having the skills needed to run a successful business is not the same as having the skills to be a successful product designer, operator, engineer or whatever else. Clearly there are people who combine both skills sets, but there are plenty who don't, and it is very easy to ignore or deride the sort of skills needed to lead and manage a business as opposed to having a mastery of the technical details of what that business does. I've said before on the various Hornby threads that Hornby doesn't need an enthusiast in the hot seat, it needs somebody with the expertise to run a small business, supported by a good general manager. Yes, if those people are also enthusiasts then all well and good, but if not then they can make sure they have enthusiasts with the right passion in the right positions. All this stuff with some may write off as trivia and details are as much the lifeblood of a business as the end product for the simple reason that if you can't do it then your business won't last long and you'll crash. A former colleague of mine was fond of saying that if you can't get the basics right then there's not much point trying the harder stuff, and he wasn't wrong. I have no ill will towards DJM and want them to succeed, but part of succeeding is being on top of the seemingly more prosaic aspects of running a business such as filing your accounts and supplying your account with what they need to make sure things are kept ship shape on that side of things.

[tetsudofan]

Reading the postings here over the last few days I'm amazed at the number of posters crawling out of the woodwork discussing not the ATP but seemingly trying, as much as possible, to stir up a hornets nest.

 

Life is full of risks. I can be crossing the road and a car being driven by somebody sending a text can run me down, I can buy some shares on the stock market and the value of those shares can fall, I can enter into a crowd funding and lose what I put in - these are all risks that can be faced every day by anyone. Nobody is forced or coerced into taking these risks. It's what's called life.

 

May I suggest that those interested in company law or the risks of crowd funding create a thread somewhere else and discuss these matters there so that the progress of the ATP model can be discussed here.

 

Keith