fezza Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 (edited) Anyone interested in the railways of Egypt - standard or narrow gauge - is welcome to contact me either through these pages or by email - museum@rail.co.il. While not an expert on this subject, I have been collection information for a long time, and am more than happy to share, e.g. the attached scanned pages from the official book about the railways of Egypt, by Wiener, published in French in 1932. This PDF containes the chapter concerned with the Egyptian Delta Light Railway. Wiener - EDLR.pdf Many thanks for that - I bought a rare copy of Wiener many years ago and now I can't find it! The 4-4-0s of the Port Said railway were some of the most attractive on any narrow gauge railway - all ended up on the Delta system as the PS railway was converted to standard gauge very shortly after its completion. Most of the carriages seem to have ended up on the Delta system too. Some mystery still surrounds when the Delta system was finally officially abandoned - probably in 1952 but it is interesting that British shareholders were still complaining to the British government about lack of compensation in 1961... When I was in Egypt in September the last remnants of the narrow gauge Heliopolis tramway were being torn up around the Basilica area. There were many local objections on heritage grounds but no-one listens. The poor are now required to use the underground- now six times more expensive for a single journey. The underground airport line still hasn't reached Zamalek or the airport - something that was originally planned for completion in the 1990s... Edited December 18, 2018 by fezza 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Here are a few files I've found relating to the Egyptian Delta system - map and typical wayside halt. I also found a goods tariff list. Oh for a time machine... a huge system and almost nothing remains. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 An even more obscure prototype--the narrow gauge military railways of Egypt during WW1. There are some great pictures on the Australian War memorial site. Diesel and petrol power in 1917. These seem to be from the Port Said system and possibly the railway to and around El Arish. The captured Turkish engine and skips would be a nice HOe project, perhaps using the Roco 060t and stock as a basis. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, fezza said: Diesel and petrol power Not, I would say with near-certainty Diesel. If you do know of a Diesel, and there might be one or two possible candidates, somewhat shadowy prototypes that may have been Diesel, I would be almost embarrassingly excited to know. Haven't these operations been covered in a bit of detail in The Narrow Gauge at some point? Kevin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I will check my notes - I thought the military authorities did experiment with diesel but I could be wrong? It was very new technology certainly. I am not an expert and would be interested to hear of other sources. I got interested during my time living in Egypt. The Egyptian NRM had very few sources on either the Delta or military railways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 The admiralty had a 2'6" gauge loco that may have had a Diesel engine, built by McEwan-Pratt and named "Eardley Wilmott". Some sources cite it as Diesel, but I've never seen conclusive information. The Germans had in the latter part of WW1 one, possibly a few, experimental 0-8-0 locos on 600mm gauge that had Diesel engines, and which seem to have been prototypes for a design to succeed the classic 0-8-0T loco for feldbahn use. Beyond those, which are unlikely to have served the British Army in Egypt, I can't think of another candidate. The Swedes had some very successful small diesel-electric railcars working pre-WW1, and DE locos during/shortly after WW1 (beating the US to it, incidentally), but I think we can discount those. As I say, I will get very excited if you have unearthed something else. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 The locomotives shown in the first three (certainly the first two, the third is less clear but looks the same) are petrol locomotives built by Hawthorn Leslie and deployed on 2'6" lines laid on the Sinai side of the Suez Canal by the British army (which included Australian troops) during WW1. Similar petrol locomotives built by Avonside were also used. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Thanks I am happy to defer to your knowledge. I think my comment came from looking at a website source so it could be a misinformation. I will check. Meanwhile here are two nice Egyptian modelling projects. The second is a narrow gauge military nurses' transport. Can't see Bachmann producing a model of this anytime soon! The first is a camel transporter complete with camels. It's standard gauge but rather fun! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I also found this. Any help with identifying the loco would be appreciated. I am always amazed by the expertise on this board. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted February 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, fezza said: Thanks I am happy to defer to your knowledge. I think my comment came from looking at a website source so it could be a misinformation. I will check. Meanwhile here are two nice Egyptian modelling projects. The second is a narrow gauge military nurses' transport. Can't see Bachmann producing a model of this anytime soon! The first is a camel transporter complete with camels. It's standard gauge but rather fun! Funnily enough we asaw the modern day equivalent of that when we were on holiday near Hurgada a few years ago. On our way back from a a trip to Luxor our coach was overtaken by an articulated lorry with a long dropside trsiler that contained 10 rather ungappy looki g canels. All tied down with just necks and humps showing above the sides. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I forgot to post this one - a fine image of an original Port Said Railway train. Perhaps one of the most elegant narrow gauge trains anywhere in an attractive setting... As the PSR was quickly converted to standard gauge, there aren't many photos of this line either. If anyone knows of others, please post or link. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, fezza said: I also found this. Any help with identifying the loco would be appreciated. I am always amazed by the expertise on this board. That's one of the 2'6" gauge Avonside petrol locos I mentioned earlier - the same illustration appears on p35 of "Making Straight The Way" (as does the earlier G01462), where it is captioned as carrying Eastern Arabic numeral 6 on the buffer beam. It is on the light railway between Port Fuad and Mahemdiya. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) Strictly OT, but since I mentioned the possibly-Diesel McEwan-Pratt loco before, here is a quotation from an old IRS article about the Chattendon & Upnor Railway: "The biggest white elephant on the line was the EARDLEY WILMOT, a diesel locomotive built in 1911 by a firm (McEwan, Pratt & Co. Ltd.) which went bankrupt before construction was finished. It was completed at Chatham Dockyard but after four years’ efforts it still would not run. Finally by liberal and frequent applications of petrol the engine was persuaded to haul a load of some fifty tons up from Upnor to Chattenden. Shortly afterwards approval was given to scrap the STAFFORD, but not the EARDLEY WILMOT, so the nameplates were hurriedly switched and the white elephant was buried at last!" Its a good story, probably gathered first-hand from staff on the railway, but I'm not totally convinced that the loco actually had a Diesel engine ...... it might have, the technology had just about got to the point that would have allowed it, but equally there was a bit of a race going on at the time between British and German makers to exceed 100hp with any form of internal combustion engine in a loco at this date, and the troubles related in the story could equally well have applied to a large 'hot bulb' engine or a petrol-paraffin engine with spark-ignition. McEwan-Pratt did indeed go bankrupt, getting subsumed into Baguley, but more because they were too far out on the then cutting-edge of technology for their own good than because they were incompetent, which the story sort-of implies. The Germans did succeed in making a working 100hp petrol-engine loco at this time, exported to Australia, but it wasn't really much good either, because the transmission, rather than the engine, was unsuitable for the duty. Edited February 19, 2020 by Nearholmer 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 A short article on the Port Said railway appeared in Locomotive Magazine* for June 1899 (pp94-5), including a rather indistinct picture of "a train running alonside the Suez Canal". However it gives a gauge of one metre instead of the 750mm to which the line was originally constructed. The first two locomotives were 0-6-0s supplied for construction by Corpet-Louvet, and were followed by five (LM says six) from SACM/Graffenstaden (nos. V1-V4 being 2-4-0s, V5 a 4-4-0 of similar dimensions). These latter five passed to the Egyptian Delta Light Railways (becoming EDLR nos. 105-109) when the Port Said railway was re-gauged. *Scanned copies of a full run of the magazine between 1896-1923 are available on DVD from the Great Eastern Railway Society. Although we are discussing a single article here, it is worth mentioning that later volumes included a survey of Egyptian standard gauge locomotives by EL Ahrons. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Eardley Wilmot had a petrol engine, and the story about the name plate swap has been showed to be false. One problem with the loco, a feature of many McEwan Pratt locos, was that the hand brake and the clutch were operated by the same control. Winding off the hand brake released the clutch. Presumably it was to prevent a driver letting the clutch out while the hand brake was still applied: remember this was before the 14-18 war, when not many people were at all familiar with ic engined vehicles. It is not difficult to see that this feature would have made the loco difficult to drive, especially on a slope, and may be why drivers found it "difficult" to start, so they would not have to take it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Sheffield said: Eardley Wilmot had a petrol engine, and the story about the name plate swap has been showed to be false I quite believe it, but have to ask how you speak with such certainty about the engine being petrol? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 4 hours ago, fezza said: I forgot to post this one - a fine image of an original Port Said Railway train. Perhaps one of the most elegant narrow gauge trains anywhere in an attractive setting... As the PSR was quickly converted to standard gauge, there aren't many photos of this line either. If anyone knows of others, please post or link. Looking on another device, I see that the loco pictured is V-4, the last of the 2-4-0 series (SACM 4461/1893). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Found this in my collection - the Bagnall 4-4-0 built for the Egyptian Delta Light Railways from the Bagnall catalogue. In service they seemed to have had a few modifications. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) There’s an online resource from ETH Zurich, a Swiss University, that includes a few thousand images of railway subjects, most of which can be downloaded. From my first impressions, it seems there are quite a number from Egyptian State Railways, disproportionately well represented. I can’t guarantee there will be subjects of wide interest, and take no responsibility for time spent going through the site. The following link has applied a filter* that seems to bring up most railway items: http://ba.e-pics.ethz.ch/#1582239371228_1 *Filter doesn’t appear to have applied, if not key Ans_05373 into the search box. Edited February 20, 2020 by EddieB 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted February 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2020 I have one photo taken by my Grandfather in 1913 which shows tiny bits of railway details around a main subject of a rather heavily laden donkey. Grandpa was an electrical engineer installing electrical systems in the Abbassia Barracks near Cairo, so I assume this would have been in that area, although he did visit Alexandria, probably on his way home by sea. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted February 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 21, 2020 Sugar cane train Luxor 1979: 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Quote I quite believe it, but have to ask how you speak with such certainty about the engine being petrol? An article, by Rodney Weaver, in the April 1976 issue of the Industrial Railway Record dealt with Eardly Wilmot in some detail. The loco was the only example built of a McEwan Pratt type P 100 HP petrol loco. It was offered for sale in 1922 under its own name, and the name was later transferred to a steam loco, to perpetuate the name, rather than facilitate disposal of the loco. Hope that helps. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Well, that’ll learn me - I sold all my IRR last year, so can’t go away and read what is doubtless a fascinating article! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 If you let me have an email address I will scan and send it to you. Or post a copy if you prefer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 A Fayoum picture from Calthrop... A van for transporting mules and the manager's horses. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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