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Northbridge and Budleigh Junction - Double Decker


Corbs
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Further to Corbs posts from a couple of days ago, I’ve attached a few photos of the latest ring or circuit to be added to the top of the helix which admittedly is a couple of circuits more than we had anticipated, due to the unexpectedly poor performance on the helix of some of the older locomotives when hauling a number of carriages up the gradient which is  due to a combination of both the gradient itself and the drag factor of the curves themselves. As such, we’ve dropped the gradient angle to allow for this. This is a pretty easy thing to do as the levels are held in place by a couple of bolts and washers on one of eight continual screw threads, and takes a relatively short amount of time to adjust. This reduced increase in height gained in-turn increased the number of circuits needed to reach the height required. The final height we’ve reached should allow the mainline to which these helix lines join to be circa  80mm above the height of the top level base boards frame (scale approx 6m or 20 feet) so enabling us to allow the foreground to drop away from the track, and bridges to be constructed.

Next steps: laying cork underlay on the new helix layer before painting and laying down the circuits of 2nd, 3rd and 4th radius track. 

Edited by Northski
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'With their groundbreaking work 'Helix 2020',  avant garde artists Northski and Corbs sparked off a whole new direction in installation art. Fusing Turner and Warhol, Helix 2020 invoked the absurd circularity of existence and posed the big questions: Where does it all begin, where does it end, and are there really 57 Heinz varietes?' :dancer:

Edited by Mikkel
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Have laid the track underneath the helix that forms the bottom end of the return loop. Like the helix, the curves are predominantly set track (3rd & 4th radius) as it’s much easier then lay than flexi track in places that have accessibility issues and clearly laying these tracks before we’d built the rest of the helix would’ve made a lot more sense, but at the time we hadn’t quite worked out how we would deal with the drop in gradient between the fiddle yard and the return loop. On the approach to the helix we’ve used 2nd radius for the left hand track which we know has the potential to cause derailment issues for some locos. However, as we’d known the room size from day one, we knew that we couldn’t quite fit in a 3rd and 4th radius S shape as we’d need to accommodate the dog bone return loop. With this in mind we’d always intended that this line wouldn’t be used as a main through line and just as large through storage siding and that we’ll have to be careful which locos are sent this way.  

As with the fiddle yard we’ve wired droppers to each piece of track in an attempt to keep things running around the curves which is especially needed around the helix due to it’s inaccessibility. The connections to the main bus have yet to be completed, and I’m hoping to group the wires together to enable us to fit block detection sensors to the layout at some future date. 

Next stages: Laying track on the top level of the helix and then laying track across the removable section across the doorway and somehow wiring it in. 

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Edited by Northski
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10 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Really nice work there, Corbs & Co. The little 6-wheeler appears to be slipping, just like real life!

 

Thanks! I think it was trying to overtake the 2-8-4T!

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Hi Corbs

 

I'm not sure your point control will work as you intend. It looks to me that everything will switch at once as all wires connect somewhere to each other. I'm no expert but do you need diodes fitted?

 

Puck

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On 15/03/2020 at 16:38, puck said:

Hi Corbs

 

I'm not sure your point control will work as you intend. It looks to me that everything will switch at once as all wires connect somewhere to each other. I'm no expert but do you need diodes fitted?

 

Puck

You're right there, it needs a way to avoid one switch acting for all, I have a bunch of diodes that may do the job without too much voltage drop? Haven't wired any of it in yet.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Bit of an update probably needed on what we've been up to. Firstly in the return loop area which is situated directly below the Helix, we've installed an extra storage line which travels right around the helix access area. The two existing lines are 3rd and 4th radius set track. Set track was used because it's much easier to install as it keeps a constant radius, and working in a confined area, you need as much help as you can get. Clearly installing this prior to the rest of the helix would've made a lot more sense, but I didn't and I should have. I've tried to install as many droppers as possible and, like most people, I'm bored of soldering droppers onto fishplates; hopefully it will pay dividends with fewer connection problems in the future. This picture shows both the start and the end of the storage line. I am intending to relay the 4th radius outside track, pictured below, taking it down the other side of the helix support column, thus removing the S bend and allowing the middle line of the 3 (the Up Main) to run a lot straighter, as it climbs the gradient towards the removable section. 

1284473276_1viewofthereturnloopwithnewlyinstalledstaoragelinetravellingaroundtheinsideoftheaccesswell.jpeg.358288ca0a7c70a29daaa90931b27079.jpeg

 

 

 

 

1054736797_4viewofreturnloopupgradienttowardstheremovablesection.jpeg.1a1157dcdd643d982bd27e6a12790dd6.jpegView from inside the helix access well, looking up the gradient towards the removable section and the fiddle yard beyond. Due to the return loop being a level lower than the rest of the layout, half the return loop has a downward gradient and the other half upwards, which the pictures don't convey that well. 

 

 

 

126719517_3viewofreturnlooplinesleaningfromthefiddleyardandremovablesection.jpeg.e487afda3915c7b52d6b5ec8d8b4a0fc.jpeg

 

 

 

37692978_5viewfrominsidethehelixaccesswellshowingreturnloopsstationareaandfirstlevelofthehelix.jpeg.4ca78c647f747424cc8b74e961f4b01e.jpeg

A view again from inside the helix access well, showing the 3 tracks of the return loop at the bottom, the 3 tracks going through the station area approaching the helix, and the first layer of the helix itself. Plus a little bit of wiring spaghetti showing the track droppers splicing into the track bus.

 

 

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Close up of the main helix bus with the return loop bus feed spliced into it. 

 

 

The next piece of work that I'd been putting off was connecting the return loop tracks to the rest of the layout. The two sections are either side of the door into the room and so a removable section crosses the gap. The first problem was how to secure the track either side of the joining gaps, with the added difficulty that there's a pretty steep gradient that leads to the return loop that starts immediately after the removable section. Not knowing how to bridge these gaps, I made a pretty horrible attempt using 2 part epoxy that you'll see below, before abandoning this idea and using copper clad sheet which is fantastic to work with.  

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It's pretty evident I wasn't sure how much copper clad to use, and even more evident that I didn't know how much solder to use. Fingers crossed that I've used enough. I'll clearly need to hide the copper clad at some stage but I'll do that only when I'm sure that it works properly first

 

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A close up view of the 3 tracks, the final cut to separate the rails was done with a razor saw

 

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View from the removable section towards the fiddle yard 

 

 

 

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A view towards the return loop from the removable section showing the gradient on both the down and up lines. 

 

 

Health warning: This how not to do it!

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Dreadful attempt at securing the track at either side of the removable section. Somewhat fortuitously, Buddy the dog knocked the removable section over, bending the tracks and finally signalling an end to this ridiculous way of securing tracks and a new, more successful way to bridge the gap was found. 

N.B. No pets or animals were injured in the pursuit of getting the track across the doorway ...yet.

 

 

The next issue was how could we get track bus power from the main part of the layout across the removable section, and then beyond to the return loop.

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Picture showing the removable section taken out. The two locating pin holes with two magnetic connectors between them. The big ugly holes beneath are access holes allowing me to connect the bus cables to the the magnet feeds. 

N.B. You will note that we have also wired the return loop area in from the main track bus. This is a belt and braces approach that should give us the best chance of getting a live feed to the removable section. 

 

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The magnetic connectors themselves. Capable of transmitting up to 8 amps, so well within our maximum loading.

 

 

 

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Close up of the underside of the removable section showing the locating pins and bus magnets.

 

 

 

1189854048_4.ReturnloopprotectionmadebyTamValleyDepotpurchasedwithadvicefromDigitrains.jpeg.b755963ab8b6124010ddfc386fd75734.jpeg

Another view of the underside of the removable section showing the Tam Valley Depot Reverse Loop module DFJ003U powers the Up Main, taking its feed from the Down Main and is isolated at either end. Many thanks to Digitrains for their assistance with how this is done. 

 

 

 

A couple of general pictures of how the return loop sits beneath the main helix above it, mimicking the 2nd, 3rd and 4th radius tracks. The removable section across the doorway in the foreground. 

 

1175654306_1Generalviewofreturnloopandhelixfromremovablesection.jpeg.5a8a22e9d80683c1bff876065dce8d71.jpeg

 

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5 Removable section looking towards the return loop showing newly aded area to the side.jpeg

The removable section with an added section (still to be painted) 

 

We have also done some work on wiring in the fiddle yard points, The photo shows the underside of the fiddle yard showing the Gaugemaster DCC80 Autofrog polarity switches that we've just installed. 

3 Frog polarity switches beneath fiddle yard.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Northski
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  • 1 month later...

What is the gradient of the helix - and what is capable of climbing it? I'm currently mulling - over the idea of using helixes, but I'm concerned that the extra drag added to the gradient will severely limit what can climb up it. .... 

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On 08/05/2020 at 14:41, Methuselah said:

What is the gradient of the helix - and what is capable of climbing it? I'm currently mulling - over the idea of using helixes, but I'm concerned that the extra drag added to the gradient will severely limit what can climb up it. .... 

 

Sorry I'd missed your message - I think @Northski measured the gradient so he might be able to tell you? There's a list of locos we tried on the first page I believe. Diesels cope much better, but we plan to incorporate banking engines and there is a pair of sidings at the foot of the incline to accommodate this. I'd like to have a model of 92079 which worked on the Lickey ;) 

 

 

Whilst we haven't been able to have a proper train day in months, Chris has not been idle. Here's the current state of play in the railway room.

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New shelves are up which we will also be able to mount lighting to. One of the main reasons is to display stock not currently in use (our plan is to have 3-4 different eras possible on the layout by changing a few things and swapping the stock) but also my grandad is moving in to the old spare room and he has tons of transport books which need a home, and what better room to put them in?

 

 

 

Note the tennis ball anti-head-bang-device. One of the great things about this is 'lifting' the tools and materials off the layout, making it easier to keep tidy whilst work is ongoing.

 

 

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ALSO after having to share workspace with the MPD site and fiddle yard for too long, Chris has made this snazzy desk that can be put away when not in use.

 

The wood at the back will be a test/DCC programming track, with a separate DCC plug on the table. The plug sockets are for lighting, soldering iron, dremel etc.

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It stows upright under the fiddle yard.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Corbs
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  • Corbs changed the title to Northbridge and Budleigh Junction - Learning Curves
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Hey folks, it's been a while. A global pandemic happened during which Chris' Dad (my Grandad) moved in to the room next door to the train room which entailed a whole load of work selling his house, dealing with all the belongings from said house, then the danger of viral transmission between us. Now that we're regularly testing and vaccinated (and the old house has been sold) hopefully we can push on.

 

FIRST we must address the learnings. We made a crucial mistake at the start of the process which was that the 'dog bone' return loop under the helix needed an insane drop in height in a relatively short space. This meant we were dealing with harsh reverse curves and gradients, a bad combo, and trying to work and lay track under the helix was really difficult.

 

We needed to be able to 'dial in' the gradient on the dog bone and thus make it part of the helix, so we pulled the whole lot out. Lots of nut-spinning and lifting.

 

 

The helix comes off in one piece and the dog-bone is dismantled.

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If you don't want to play 'spot the difference' with the next two pics, in the first one the dog-bone base layer is screwed to the support frame. In the second pic, it is now supported only by the helix struts and can be moved up and down like the helix layers.

E249E234-AA8A-49EC-8058-08FB0A4767E5_1_105_c.jpeg.00a00ac577570ea49f18fcd7d7fc4abd.jpeg

 

 

83332DEA-F847-4FB1-ABD7-89D085639394_1_105_c.jpeg.027e6d86cfb36140a0fa8991c8c607ad.jpeg

A much simplified track plan for robustness, and to give the easiest curves possible. The reverse curves at the bottom of the pic are only going to be used in the downhill direction so this can be quite steep, allowing the climbing track to be as gentle as possible.

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Next: test, test, test.

 

The Black 5 was by far the weakest loco for its size on the helix tests, so we wanted to make sure it could pull the same amount of coaches around the reversing loop. 4 was its limit on both. Once this was done we could be satisfied the the slop was as gentle as we could make it.

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Then the helix went back on (Buddy and Mum helped)

 

 

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Because this has entailed reducing the clearances on the reversing loop, we needed to lift the 1st level of the helix by the same amount.

 

 

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The lead-in will occur in the lower station area, thankfully the trackbed was already raised here so we just lifted it up at one end to create a nice gradual slope all the way down.

 

 

 

With that done we could dial-in the helix gaps to try and ensure they are consistent throughout, testing it with the train and carriages. At the moment it needs tuning as the slope on one side is steeper than the other but hopefully we can get it running ok. I doubt the Black 5 will be able to do much unassisted so we will likely need a couple of panniers and a 9F on banking duty....

 

 

Edited by Corbs
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Ok, an update now we have more progress. I've restored most of the missing images to the thread.

 

A sign has appeared!

47EF56DC-E95E-419D-BD9A-D9C9CD4B6360_1_105_c.jpeg.020f6634e92fd0a878e9192a00da6631.jpeg

 

Newly renumbered and renamed No.8001 'Bristol Cathedral' has been our clearance checking loco as it's got quite long overhangs.

It revealed a few spots where the track needed to move, such as this gap where it clouted the wall (in true Swindon style).

5527959B-F3CA-4AF5-9126-DFCED5942BBE_1_105_c.jpeg.28579a47382be80818fe5e8194f8455b.jpeg

 

The safety valves were also scraping the roof in places (which I think actually happened to a King on a mainline tour), so we adjusted the helix to suit.

926BE347-F18E-4AF1-A2A4-6A3B837C3475_1_105_c.jpeg.d57ac4b1844e9bd8b6000494519c6ff8.jpeg

 

 

In the interest of 'lets run some bloody trains' we have built and installed a temporary top deck with duck-under section coming off the top of the helix. The 4th and 3rd radius lines form the dog bone around the reversing loop, while the 2nd radius has a balloon loop all its own - climbing trains can scoot across to this in order to descend on the inside line rather than the middle one (the inside line may end up being used to store long trains).

 

4A16D328-9029-483C-9303-62AD5FD1A3C2_1_105_c.jpeg.21340be7c71514f5190b750d79d371f9.jpeg

 

Whilst the DCC hasn't been fully wired in, I did bring over some RC locos which enabled us to run trains around the entire layout for the first time!

 

The inaugural train was a 2-wagon goods hauled by the WSPG Co. Borrows 0-4-0WT (a TSdesign body on a Hornby Pug chassis, utilising a 3-6v motor with RC rather than the massive 12v motor).

7D982060-06C7-445B-AF2F-69FB95865603.jpeg.53379cb408b77c16ee3f97aff9b1a4ad.jpeg

 

Here it is running 'wrong road' around the top deck.

 

This was joined by the Cathedral hauling a mineral train (later strengthened to something like 26 wagons with the addition of some Rapido ones).

 

We then spent the afternoon retracing our steps with the DCC. We have 3 power districts, each is protected by an EB1 board as show here (with a reset switch wired in in case of short circuits). So far we have connected up the fiddle yard district and tested it.

We have also begun to rationalise the track feed wiring, previously we tended to use the scotch connectors to feed every track dropper into the bus, but in busy areas we are replacing these with soldered connections (3 into 2 into 1 etc.) that then feeds into the bus. This is followed by taping up and securing the dropper wires under the board which is much neater and less risk of snagging anything.

Track power is the priority here, point wiring will follow when the track feeds are done.

 

Finally feels like a layout again!

 

811529F8-0DD0-4D86-964D-CFF7904D95F3.jpeg.75654403db33487c0d6cbc6788de40a8.jpeg

 

We also worked out that at a scale 45mph the Cathedral took 4m 42s to traverse the entire layout, we estimate it's about 67 metres of track in total.

 

A5FF529F-25B7-409D-A83A-0E428D646C38.png.28eff6be0f72fd20175589baaae85c2b.png

 

Edited by Corbs
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Just found this thread, very interesting, not least as some of the features (helix, reversing loop under, double track, etc) also feature in my evolving plans. I note you are not working to a defined track plan, but any chance of an outline sketch of the outline, and the room / baseboard dimensions?

TIA

Ian

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I'll need to check dimensions when I am back in there but here is a rough sketch of the track (not to scale) on the bottom level.

We used to have sidings for bankers but this was badly affecting the curvature/length of the through roads in the fiddle yard so bankers will be dispatched from the MPD instead.

The shortest road in the 'up' and 'down' yards will generally be kept clear for through running. Small trains will be kept in the kick-back sidings accessed from the switch on the removable section, while the long mineral train (20 ish wagons) and the express (approx. 5-6 coaches) will be kept in the longest through roads. Trains can be strengthened to be longer but will either need to be kept on the inside of the helix or be broken up when they are being stored.

Note that Northbridge is now a 2-platform station with the inside helix line joining the Down Main before the station. This freed up the MPD line to have a coaling stage.

 

1609190964_Screenshot2022-12-29at17_41_01.png.ff25845e1d2c7b1afcb090b2e2e01635.png

 

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  • Corbs changed the title to Northbridge and Budleigh Junction - Double Decker
  • RMweb Gold

They say that a picture tells a thousand words, so surely these short video clips are the equivalent of a dissertation.

 

Test trains running on RC
 

 

Edited by Corbs
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