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HELJAN UNVEILS ‘OO’ GAUGE 25/3 AND ‘ETHEL’ FOR 2019


Andy Y
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3 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

The cab door window in that shot looks no better, however, the photos here seem to show improvement: https://www.hattons.co.uk/384105/heljan_2540_class_25_3_ethel_train_heating_unit_adb97250_in_br_blue_and_grey_unpowered_pri/stockdetail.aspx

 

Roy

But there's still not enough indent/frame around the windscreens - a deal-breaker for me. 

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3 hours ago, Will 1062 said:

Jamie Goodman sound with a Zimo "Dumbo" Speaker in the tank.

 

Thanks....have you got contact details for Jamie ? Zimo or Lok4/5 decoder ?

Not 100% accurate for a planned Class 27 but "near enough" - similar PM with different electrical equipment.

 

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9 hours ago, tractor_37260 said:

 

Thanks....have you got contact details for Jamie ? Zimo or Lok4/5 decoder ?

Not 100% accurate for a planned Class 27 but "near enough" - similar PM with different electrical equipment.

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F303271277241

On eBay. I bought one the other day. Can’t wait to put it in a 25 worthy of it.

66738

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On 03/12/2019 at 16:39, Will 1062 said:

Here is a more detailed look at the sounds :

 

 


lovely Sulzer 6 Cylinder burble once she settles. Characteristic discordant class 25 horns too... IIRC these may not be right for 24/26/27 ...

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12 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:


lovely Sulzer 6 Cylinder burble once she settles. Characteristic discordant class 25 horns too... IIRC these may not be right for 24/26/27 ...

Yeah the sounds were recorded from a 25/3 - Has unique horns compared to the other subclasses and those of a 24,26 and 26. Which are quite smilar in terms of their hron sounds. 

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12 minutes ago, Will 1062 said:

Yeah the sounds were recorded from a 25/3 - Has unique horns compared to the other subclasses and those of a 24,26 and 26. Which are quite smilar in terms of their hron sounds. 

Even more unique if the rear cab horn button jams, a popular fault on the 25/3. If you see one with a missing mesh from over the horn it’s one that’s jammed and had a rag jammed in it.

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On 25/02/2020 at 07:47, Mophead45143 said:

Noticed on some other threads for Heljan projects that there were a couple of cl. 25 EP's on the stand at Model Rail Scotland. They were in the background of the photos so couldn't be sure, but they looked like the same EP's we've already seen. Can anyone confirm? 

 

I didn't ask the question but it certainly looked to be the same, blue painted example.  May have been an unpainted body shell there too, can't quite recall.

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From listening to the above video it sound like the start up was recorded from inside the engine room as the triple pump doesn’t sound that loud from outside plus you forget that it runs all the time. Sounds like a cold start too.

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Hi,

 

I received an e-mail earlier today from Hattons with the update and revised pricing information. The ETHELs are now priced the same as the other non weathered models. I personally don't have a problem with this. Just wondering if anybody knows if they will now be powered or will be unpowered as indicated in 2018 by Brian Daniels.

 

On 06/07/2018 at 09:14, brian daniels said:

ETHELS are indeed un powered.

 

Thanks.  PJ10

 

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"The “ETHEL” train heating units are now confirmed as being powered locomotives, so they will receive the same price as the rest of the range."

 

From today's Hattons email

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Thanks Ruggedpeak. My e-mail doesn't contain this text but just found the info in the Product Description on the Hatton's Website. Better get more chips in

 

Thanks again. PJ10

 

 

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Interesting. I got a completely different e-mail. Looks like you already have a pre-order from the text in the message. I don't which probably explains the different e-mails.

 

Anyway thanks for the info.

 

PJ10 

 

 

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2 hours ago, ruggedpeak said:

"The “ETHEL” train heating units are now confirmed as being powered locomotives, so they will receive the same price as the rest of the range."

 

From today's Hattons email

What’s the point of a powered Ethel?! Is this the ultimate pedants inaccuracy ?

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50 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

What’s the point of a powered Ethel?! Is this the ultimate pedants inaccuracy ?

Manufacturing I guess. Easier to make only one form of chassis - a powered one - than have to design a new chassis set up for just one livery. And we get to pay the full powered model price too :wacko:

 

Not overly impressed and will ponder my pre-order (on top of worrying about whether I can actually afford any pre-orders given the current situation!) £153 is a lot for a wagon with 4 axles (which is what an ETHEL was). Presumably can just pop off the driveshafts to free wheel, and turn off the lights.

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2 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

Isn’t it more accurate to have the engine in? It wasn’t removed, just disconnected from the traction motors etc., so it could provide ETH to the train.

Being pedantic yes if the model had a model of the actual engine in it, which it doesn't. The ETHEL's were effectively a generator wagon like a NR GUV or similar and not capable of moving under their own power, so including a motor and transmission in the model is less accurate. The model should be the same IMHO. And most importantly cost less!

 

But I get it is easier for Heljan to make all the 25's in one manufacturing batch to the same internal spec.

 

I ithnk the key for me is how accurate the model is, if it is an accurate model of the ETHEL I will probaly stick with the pre-order. If not then I have a selection of Hornby and Bachmann models ready for conversion.

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On 20/03/2020 at 19:38, ruggedpeak said:

Manufacturing I guess. Easier to make only one form of chassis - a powered one - than have to design a new chassis set up for just one livery. And we get to pay the full powered model price too :wacko:

 

Not overly impressed and will ponder my pre-order (on top of worrying about whether I can actually afford any pre-orders given the current situation!) £153 is a lot for a wagon with 4 axles (which is what an ETHEL was). Presumably can just pop off the driveshafts to free wheel, and turn off the lights.

 

how much cheaper would you expect it to be ?
 

I admit the price of Heljan spares just went through the roof, whole sprues used to be  available for the shafts for around £3, now you only get each individual piece for circa that price + p&p and handling charges, But previously I bought replacements motors for my 15/17 and Garratt for £2 each, direct from China.

 

i’ll put it another way, theres a source of new online chassis for 26/27 at less than £40 for some years... thats a whole motorised chassis..inc lights and DCC bits.

 

so if you want to see how much the savings are.. take out the motor and shaft.. you might get a £10 on ebay, taking advantage of those recent price rises.

 

So think of it as a unmotorised 25 with a free motor in it..its still got the electronics, dcc and other gizmos.. so its still much more than a coach.

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

 

how much cheaper would you expect it to be ?

Probably about 50% cheaper. A good direct comparison

 

Dapol Hymek £115 powered £47 unpowered

Dapol 122 £134 powered £58 unpowered

 

At the end of the day they just need a bogie moulding to hold the wheels in the bogies and can leave out the motor and electronic gubbins. Lights aren't required.

 

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1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

Probably about 50% cheaper. A good direct comparison

 

Dapol Hymek £115 powered £47 unpowered

Dapol 122 £134 powered £58 unpowered

 

At the end of the day they just need a bogie moulding to hold the wheels in the bogies and can leave out the motor and electronic gubbins. Lights aren't required.

 

Try taking out the DCC board, motor and shaft, stick it on ebay and see if you get £75 for it.

 

As I said, you can buy a whole motorised chassis, wheels, dcc board all in for £40 new.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heljan-Replacement-Class-26-Chassis-OO-Gauge/283440784769?hash=item41fe632581:m:miNO6H71ePY9vw3QjdQNF-Q

 

even without the motor, you've got more detail, paint detail and of course packaging and parts bags than an ordinary coach. You dont get many coaches with brake pipes, sprung buffers, ploughs, separate hand rails, etched parts, screen wipers etc all factory fitted... 

 

The economics of n gauge and oo gauge are completely different... Lima did try this with twin packs of class 20’s, their cost was £80, when individually they were £50, but take up was generally restricted to limited editions. The advantage they had the body was only 2 pieces (body and glazing)+ 4 buffers... the limited editions they made were the same livery, just different numbers...(much like your Dapol examples) so saving on numerous paint masks, print patterns too, unlike Ethels which is unique to 3 locos, that just happen to be unpowered.

 

As I said, if you so confident in your math.. buy it, strip it, sell off the bits and then you’ll get an idea of the cost difference... i’ll give you £2 for the motor.. thats what I paid for replacements to fit my 15/17 & Garratt in the past, i’ll give £1 for the DCC blanking plate too.

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44 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

As I said, if you so confident in your math.. buy it, strip it, sell off the bits and then you’ll get an idea of the cost difference.

Calm down dear, its only a model train. I'm not doing any fancy maths or getting overexcited, just demonstrating that it is possible to sell unpowered versions at a lower price than powered.

 

That £40 price is a clearance price from Olivia's who clearly have very large quantity to get rid of, having sold 50 already and having "more than 10" left. So it is not necessarily representative of the cost of a chassis. And stripping parts and selling them has no relation to the cost making a powered or unpowered chassis.

 

Frankly only Heljan know the cost differential but I'd wager £1 it is possible to build and sell unpowered ETHEL's for less than the powered ones, just for business reasons they have chosen not to. Doesn't mean that Heljan are the root of all evil or anything, just disappointing having been led to expect a price differential.

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