HELJAN UNVEILS ‘OO’ GAUGE 25/3 AND ‘ETHEL’ FOR 2019

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Hmmmmmmmm.

 

 

Builders plate is too high up...

Front OHLE flashes are also too low.

 

confirmed with an actual D7647 picture here

https://www.derbysulzers.com/25297.html

i’m lifted to see a strengthener behind the grill at this end of this EP, so maybe mods to the larger grill are coming.

Edited July 21, 2020 by adb968008

[YesTor]

10 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

The break between the two greens looks slightly too low.

 

10 hours ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Hmmmmmmmm.

 

 

 

Or perhaps it's the hinged panel falling just marginally too high...?

 

Al

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by YesTor

[Clive Mortimore]

11 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Yep, only a fraction out, but out nonetheless. As Stovepipe said, it should be right up to the grill and as your black&white picture shows, the hinge should be in the light green, not the dark green.

 

Roy

 

 

Hi Roy

 

I think we need to question is every thing the right size and in the right place? It is not unknown for the stuff on the side of a Heljan diesel to be all over the shop, the refurbished Baby Deltics had all the windows and grilles in the wrong places.

[Porcy Mane]

11 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 As Stovepipe said, it should be right up to the grill and as your black&white picture shows, the hinge should be in the light green, not the dark green.

 

What stood out for me was the lower join between the Brunswick and Sherwood  (and the SYP) and the distance from the horizontal panel join. On the prototype the demarcation looks to be a smidge above the join whereas on the model it's noticeably above.

[gridwatcher]

On 21/07/2020 at 21:40, tractor_37260 said:

 

 

Good point, I missed that one.............

Separate mouldings....come off. Next!

[newbryford]

Before we get too carried away regarding the paint - is this a hand-painted example or factory finish?

 

I'm looking at the top and bottom edges of the Sherwood green on the cab corner. 

[GD]

On 22/07/2020 at 00:16, adb968008 said:

Builders plate is too high up...

Front OHLE flashes are also too low.

 

confirmed with an actual D7647 picture here

https://www.derbysulzers.com/25297.html

i’m lifted to see a strengthener behind the grill at this end of this EP, so maybe mods to the larger grill are coming.

OMG it's made out of plastic when the real is made out of metal

[Gilbert]

9 hours ago, newbryford said:

Before we get too carried away regarding the paint - is this a hand-painted example or factory finish?

 

I'm looking at the top and bottom edges of the Sherwood green on the cab corner. 

From the press release.....however I agree it has "imperfections that suggest otherwise..

 

However, we can at last report some positive progress with the arrival of the first factory decorated sample.

[Roy Langridge]

4 hours ago, GD said:

OMG it's made out of plastic when the real is made out of metal

Ok, so because it is plastic, you are saying it doesn’t matter if there are errors? 
 

Roy

[Zunnan]

7 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Ok, so because it is plastic, you are saying it doesn’t matter if there are errors? 
 

Roy

 

I take it to mean that the DJH kit is the bees knees because its metal just like the real thing...the wrong kinds of metal, but still.

[adb968008]

14 hours ago, GD said:

OMG it's made out of plastic when the real is made out of metal

I could of course say nothing.

Then wait until its actually made, then say it.

How much fuss was made over D6515’s white vs cream stripe.

 

if you want it right, speak up, or forever hold your peace, as once its made, its made and your chance to whinge expires.
 

This is an easy fix.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by adb968008

[PaulRhB]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

f you want it right, speak up,

I trust these comments have been forwarded by email to Heljan using the contact on their site, like I did with the 009 loco, rather than just posted hoping they will look!  

 

Personally the face looks ok but it’s 25 years since I built one in O and studied the angle in detail, I suspect the exposure is playing tricks? The window looks quite close from similar angle photos to me and only a square on one would allow more accurate comparison. It’s certainly not far too small and several examples have very pronounced rubber surrounds. The colour divide is a fraction low and the plate a little out but easy to correct if it bothers you, I agree the grilles are a bit heavy too. 
Perception is everything. 

[Roy Langridge]

2 hours ago, Zunnan said:

 

I take it to mean that the DJH kit is the bees knees because its metal just like the real thing...the wrong kinds of metal, but still.

I think you quoted the wrong person there. I was highlighting that the material used was irrelevant to the discussion!

 

Roy

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

I trust these comments have been forwarded by email to Heljan using the contact on their site, 

I could or I could just phone Ben as I have his number, but he reads here and he’s trying his best to make the best models out there.

 

I think many are missing the point, A commendable effort in PR is being tried out, we as readers are being given chance to view and offer comment to a prototype ahead of production... People are assuming they are entitled to see EPs, when its really a luxury, a bit like fans getting sneak previews to films. Its upto Manufacturers to chose what they action or ignore, but if no one comments then you cant expect them to be perfect or mind readers.

 

If you dont care, dont want, then ignore it, but don't complain when the end result is missing something you saw/want.

 

Sure you can say its upto the manufacturer to get it right, but if its wrong its not just the manufacturer losing commercially, we as modellers lose a model which could have been better.

 

If you disagree, go look at Hornby's yellow HST... or 60015.
I will say speaking out constructively works.. 60015 came out wrong with its logo, at Hornbys extra efforts to make it right, I have now put my money where my mouth was and bought one, but if we as a community had have chance to have seen it earlier, it may have been avoided.. that logo was only 2mm out too.

Modellers are a finnicky bunch.. moan if its wrong, moan about suggestions to make it right, moan if its not made and on another thread they are actually moaning that its being made at all...

I assume once released, all negative comments will be drowned in an awe of silence as the window to speak will have long closed by that point, and everyone will forever hold their peace.. of course not.. thats when the real saboteurs will unmask themselves.

Edited July 23, 2020 by adb968008

[PaulRhB]

Whatever the method a polite comment with reference is more likely to help at least the next batch, if not this one, than everyone just posting here  Heljan will likely say no one complained to us unless everyone who’s bothered by it makes polite contact with details. Please don’t just say look at Rmweb! 

I’ll be getting an ETHEL for my 37/0’s but to be honest it looks right to me so I’m quite happy with what I’ve seen and I doubt I’ll even bother with the grille as the face is what grabs my untutored eye   

[adb968008]

18 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Whatever the method a polite comment with reference is more likely to help at least the next batch, if not this one, than everyone just posting here  Heljan will likely say no one complained to us unless everyone who’s bothered by it makes polite contact with details. Please don’t just say look at Rmweb! 

Sure, but don’t underestimate rmweb.

i’d imagine its easier to read a hundred comments at leisure here, than handling a 100 emails / phonecalls  (plus taking notes, understanding what someone is trying to say, often about parts where they dont know the actual part name).

This is a small hobby, every line of the chain has some input here.

some of the Chinese factories even read here, they have been known to reach out for feedback and input directly from some members.

 

On the flip side one company I found is very hostile to feedback, unless its received through known channels/friends/networks, but they too still read here.

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by adb968008

[PaulRhB]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

Dont underestimate rmweb.

I don’t and don’t over estimate it either. I also know a polite email / letter is more likely to be read than pages of nit-picking on here from a couple of people in the industry. 

When I read all the comments only the plate location and grille actually stood out, the rest I’d be hard pressed to ascertain from the pictures even when aware of the supposed detail. 
Been there and got the T shirt for an error only discovered later and even the manufacturer we made the models for didn’t notice! It annoyed me when I subsequently found it but the guys who built it were chuffed to bits with the presentation model and didn’t notice the correction on the subsequent one! 

[Roy Langridge]

14 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

I don’t and don’t over estimate it either. I also know a polite email / letter is more likely to be read than pages of nit-picking on here from a couple of people in the industry. 

When I read all the comments only the plate location and grille actually stood out, the rest I’d be hard pressed to ascertain from the pictures even when aware of the supposed detail. 
Been there and got the T shirt for an error only discovered later and even the manufacturer we made the models for didn’t notice! It annoyed me when I subsequently found it but the guys who built it were chuffed to bits with the presentation model and didn’t notice the correction on the subsequent one! 

 

You haven't looked at the cab door then! On a 25 you can't see the top of the door as it is tucked under the gutter. Look at the photo from Porcy Mane and then the EP, you can see they have modelled quite a gap between the gutter and door top.

 

You comment on the face being important. I too have an ETHEL on order, you didn't see the face of them much, they were wedged between stock and loco, the sides are much more important.

Roy

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

You haven't looked at the cab door then!

I have and it took me a whole to see it as I was drawn to other details, that’s what I meant about the face. Humans often see what they know and miss other details, the familiarity means that’s what’s probably happened at Heljan, you’re blind to stuff because we each pick up different things. 
I’m not disputing it’s there, I did eventually grasp what but as it wasn’t highlighted it didn’t jump out, still doesn’t to be honest  

Much like the 37’s nose controversy, I’ve worked with them and had rides in them for work but the ‘wrong’ noses still look ok to me!

People are saying how can you miss such n such but even if you’re familiar it doesn’t mean you notice certain details. It would be better for people to post comparisons with the errors ringed so they stand out as the experts text isn’t always clear. 
Heljan will then take a financial decision if it warrants a major change in tooling. So yes some of these may have been noted and decided they weren’t viable to change because they see them as minor. 
Anyway where would Shawplan etc be if they started making perfect models! 
 

[Roy Langridge]

35 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I have and it took me a whole to see it as I was drawn to other details, that’s what I meant about the face. Humans often see what they know and miss other details, the familiarity means that’s what’s probably happened at Heljan, you’re blind to stuff because we each pick up different things. 
I’m not disputing it’s there, I did eventually grasp what but as it wasn’t highlighted it didn’t jump out, still doesn’t to be honest  

Much like the 37’s nose controversy, I’ve worked with them and had rides in them for work but the ‘wrong’ noses still look ok to me!

People are saying how can you miss such n such but even if you’re familiar it doesn’t mean you notice certain details. It would be better for people to post comparisons with the errors ringed so they stand out as the experts text isn’t always clear. 
Heljan will then take a financial decision if it warrants a major change in tooling. So yes some of these may have been noted and decided they weren’t viable to change because they see them as minor. 
Anyway where would Shawplan etc be if they started making perfect models! 
 

It is just such a shame, and with this model having competition, it needed to be right. I will keep my ETHEL order, but I am not rushing for more. 
 

Roy

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

You haven't looked at the cab door then! On a 25 you can't see the top of the door as it is tucked under the gutter.

 

Just goes to show what a difficult job the model manufactures have dealing with pedant such as us.

 

The large version Barking Bills photograph clearly shows side between the rain guttering and top of the door aperture.

 

R0039 - Sandiacre by Bill Wright, on Flickr

 

The Derby Sulzers page for D7559 shows a number of images where again a flat surface is clearly visible.

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/25209.html

 

He also has a splendid image of the nose of D7534. The cab front guttering on this particular loco is undoubtedly green.

 

R0005 - Nottingham Shed by Bill Wright, on Flickr

 

P

Edited July 24, 2020 by Porcy Mane

[Roy Langridge]

17 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Just goes to show what a difficult job the model manufactures have dealing with pedant such as us.

 

The large version Barking Bills photograph clearly shows side between the rain guttering and top of the door aperture.

 

R0039 - Sandiacre by Bill Wright, on Flickr

 

P

 

I think I explain what I mean badly. The top of the door itself is is not below the gutter - bearing in mind that the gutter has a row of screws beneath the trough to mount it (maybe rivets, I am sure 25901 will know). It is this gutter mounting that you are calling side.

 

Look at the photo posted by 25901:

 

 

And again in this example: https://flic.kr/p/Xby4gW

 

 

Cheers,

Roy

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Roy Langridge
Edit: clarification

[Porcy Mane]

43 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

And again in this example: https://flic.kr/p/Xby4gW

 

 

Yep, I see were you're coming from now.

[stovepipe]

Also here

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/news/Heljan-show-more-class-25-decorated-samples/

[Roy Langridge]

I would love to know what the "few minor improvements" will be.

 

Generally looking like really good livery application but there are a few small issues with liveries that I hope they are able to correct. Things like the name on the blue Tamworth Castle is too big and centred when it was smaller and to the left of centre between the windows and the black cab windows are spoilt by having yellow showing on the insides were the glazing mounts. ETHEL 3 in intercity should have red buffer beams. The arrows of indecision on 25252 don't look quite right but I can't quite put my finger on why.

 

Also ETHEL 3 doesn't have plated over access steps and grill like the prototype - was this supposed to be done?

Roy

Edited September 15, 2020 by Roy Langridge