RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 10 hours ago, 25901 said: My spare has six lol Not sure if we are talking holes in wheel or in the bogie frame, or both! Nonetheless, I am yet to find any pictures of a 25 with anything other than six holes in the bogies frame. I note that the Heljan O gauge 25 has six holes as well, as do the Bachmann and Hornby OO Class 25s. Very odd to only have four. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said: Not sure if we are talking holes in wheel or in the bogie frame, or both! Nonetheless, I am yet to find any pictures of a 25 with anything other than six holes in the bogies frame. I note that the Heljan O gauge 25 has six holes as well, as do the Bachmann and Hornby OO Class 25s. Very odd to only have four. Roy Looking at the Rails website from what I can see all the green models have 4 the blue ones have 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, sulzer71 said: Looking at the Rails website from what I can see all the green models have 4 the blue ones have 6 That is interesting - did 25s ever have only 4 holes when new? Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: That is interesting - did 25s ever have only 4 holes when new? Roy Unfortunately that's not something I know but perhaps later in their life they had extra holes drilled for axle weight reduction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, sulzer71 said: Unfortunately that's not something I know but perhaps later in their life they had extra holes drilled for axle weight reduction? Just looked at Derby Sulzer's and D5151 (25001) seems to have had six holes from new: D5151 Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: Just looked at Derby Sulzer's and D5151 (25001) seems to have had six holes from new: D5151 Roy D5000 and D5233 on the same site, as built photographs show the six hole equalizing beam. Edited February 10, 2021 by 'CHARD extra data and gen 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 So the ETHEL EP looks to have 6 holes, but 25102 only four. Heljan have obviously gone to the effort to tool two bogies, so there must be some rationale behind it, I just don't know what that is. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 11 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: So the ETHEL EP looks to have 6 holes, but 25102 only four. Heljan have obviously gone to the effort to tool two bogies, so there must be some rationale behind it, I just don't know what that is. Roy Checking the pictures on the TMC website, is it as straightforward as the flash hasn't been cleared from the bogie frame side pieces? Oddly, one side of the loco has six hole beams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 44 minutes ago, 'CHARD said: Checking the pictures on the TMC website, is it as straightforward as the flash hasn't been cleared from the bogie frame side pieces? Oddly, one side of the loco has six hole beams. It could be, but Andy Y's photo of 25102 show both bogies on that side to have four holes and no hint of the extra two at all. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 How queer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, 'CHARD said: How queer. Yep - all the photos on Heljan's Facebook page have six holes. As I said, it looks as though they have tooled two options, I just can't understand why. Hopefully production models turn up correct for the chosen prototype - which looks to be six in all cases that I have studied. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of IKB Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 How different Heljan threads are compared with accurascale ones! If it were accurascale making these models there would have been a prompt reply either acknowledging the error and promising to fix it, or confirmation that the production model would be correct and that the sample was incomplete. Heljan could learn a lot from those guys, in more ways than one. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said: How different Heljan threads are compared with accurascale ones! If it were accurascale making these models there would have been a prompt reply either acknowledging the error and promising to fix it, or confirmation that the production model would be correct and that the sample was incomplete. Heljan could learn a lot from those guys, in more ways than one. Whilst I agree with you to an extent, I think it is also fair to point out that Accurascale, Cavalex, Revolution etc. are a very welcome break from the norm, and that although not at the level of those just mentioned, Ben's involvement with RMWeb has been somewhat more common than for some other manufacturers. Roy Edited February 10, 2021 by Roy Langridge 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 23 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said: How different Heljan threads are compared with accurascale ones! If it were accurascale making these models there would have been a prompt reply either acknowledging the error and promising to fix it, or confirmation that the production model would be correct and that the sample was incomplete. Heljan could learn a lot from those guys, in more ways than one. Quite. I can understand the mods' frustration with the "hyperbole" on here, but it would be nice if they could see our frustration with Heljan's hyperbole: on p.23 they describe the model as "superb". I'm pretty sure they've also used the word "accurate", which also turns out to have been hyperbole... 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 Time too move on from counting holes and grumbling. Scanned some more of my slides and came across ETHEL in action in 1989. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clagsniffer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Looks like 6 holes on the bogies 39 minutes ago, ColinK said: Time too move on from counting holes and grumbling. Scanned some more of my slides and came across ETHEL in action in 1989. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 I was not aware we were grumbling about holes, rather I am intrigued as to why there seems to be two tooling options. I am beginning to think therapy is needed for my cab door aversion as I like a lot of the model, and I believe a 25093 may be on the cards. Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of IKB Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 55 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: I was not aware we were grumbling about holes, rather I am intrigued as to why there seems to be two tooling options. I am beginning to think therapy is needed for my cab door aversion as I like a lot of the model, and I believe a 25093 may be on the cards. Roy I think i might be grumbling about the holes. I know the doors are wrong, but for some reason they dont bother me, but the missing bogie frame holes just bug me! All the images of the model appear to have 4 rather than 6 holes. And all the images ive seen of the real thing have 6. What i find especially annoying is the o gauge version is correct, so how did this get missed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said: I think i might be grumbling about the holes. I know the doors are wrong, but for some reason they dont bother me, but the missing bogie frame holes just bug me! All the images of the model appear to have 4 rather than 6 holes. And all the images ive seen of the real thing have 6. What i find especially annoying is the o gauge version is correct, so how did this get missed? Most images I have seen of the Heljan 25 have 6 holes - all of them on their Facebook page and those shown on Rails pages. Just the odd one seems to have 4. Roy Edited February 10, 2021 by Roy Langridge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2021 44 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said: . And all the images ive seen of the real thing have 6. What i find especially annoying is the o gauge version is correct, so how did this get missed? The EP I’ve handled 06/08/19 has six holes both sides of the bogie. I can’t imagine that HJ uk would have issued an instruction to the factory after the EP above, take two holes out of the equaliser bar. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I haven't found any photos of the real Class 25s with anything other than 6 holes in the equalising bar. Could photos of the model if it looks like 4 holes be if its at an angle and you're only seeing light passing through 4 of them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted February 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2021 24 minutes ago, GordonC said: Could photos of the model if it looks like 4 holes be if its at an angle and you're only seeing light passing through 4 of them? On 05/02/2021 at 12:36, AY Mod said: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) Now that is weird. PMP’s shot is obvs 6, Andy’is clearly 4 - no light tricks, it’s solid around up to the pieces under the springs , and it’s clearly 4 Edited February 11, 2021 by rob D2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hal Nail said: definitely only looks like 4 and the photo posted of that one in that exact livery condition had obviously 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted February 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2021 I think it’s likely to be a trick of the light. a look at the model on TMC website also shows the other side. And it looks like one bogie has four, the other, six. One of my photos of 25093 looks like four, the same model , same side by Lees Locos shows six. It could be the TMC model has a bogie with mould ‘flash’ in the holes, but based on my pic vs Lees, I’d go for ‘trick of the light’ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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