HELJAN UNVEILS ‘OO’ GAUGE 25/3 AND ‘ETHEL’ FOR 2019

[Enterprisingwestern]

26 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

That statement is true of 95% of threads here, and yet we never get tired of arguing.  Thank goodness none of us have access to the nuclear launch codes,  a pre emptive nuclear strike on denmark because of 0.5mm of misplaced plastic would be a real possibility. Or should i say CERTAINTY!

 

 

As much as 0.5mm?????????????

 

Mike.

[Global]

14 hours ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

So you would consider returning a model that may have negligible inaccuracies?

We've come a long long way since Lima.

Basically yes. I think we’ll disagree on whether they’re negligible or not though! 
 

The point I’m trying to make is why would I replace Bachmann models with something that looks less like a Class X (insert class of choice here!) than what I already have?

 

I agree Heljan seem to make a cracking chassis, but the body always seems to let it down with silly (but not unimportant to some) errors. If those errors didn’t matter to sales then you’d expect them to leave them as is, but they do seem to eventually try to correct them as they have with the 33 and 86 for example. So why not put the effort in to get them right at the start?

 

As someone has already mentioned, there will be a percentage who will be happy with something that vaguely resembles what it’s supposed to be and will purchase anyway, but there will be those who will not.

 

Those who don’t care won’t not buy it because it’s correct so you’ll get them regardless! But they’re putting off a potential section of the market by this kind of ‘it’ll do attitude’. 
 

What percentage of the market falls into each category I wouldn’t like to guess though.

 

We’re also encouraged to pre order more these days it seems - so it’s even more of a case of trusting what will turn out at the end. But if that’s not to the standard suggested then yes I’ll return them - but more likely I will have seen the finished article and cancelled the order before dispatch. 
 

Lima were basic models, but for the time I think they actually captured the look ok on most things! 
 

When you think of the technology and research material available now, it makes the Heljan errors all the more annoying. 

[Global]

14 hours ago, aureol40012 said:

“rather than deliver it and then have me return them all because they’re wrong?”

 

Are you being serious?  You wouldn’t have a leg to stand on and I’d be telling you which stop to get off at if I were your retailer.

Quite serious. No different to any other product from a shop if you decide you no longer want it for whatever reason and it’s unused/unopened - unless you know different and model shops have some different set of trading standards?! 

['CHARD]

22 minutes ago, Global said:

 

I agree Heljan seem to make a cracking chassis

 

 

Hopefully mazak-rot is a thing of the past now.

 

 

 

(note, this post contains irony particles)

Edited February 17, 2021 by 'CHARD
to add warning of overhead irony

[Phil Parker]

5 minutes ago, Global said:

The point I’m trying to make is why would I replace Bachmann models with something that looks less like a Class X (insert class of choice here!) than what I already have?

 

Please put Captain Hyperbole back in his box.

[Paul_sterling]

Just now, 'CHARD said:

 

Hopefully mazak-rot is a thing of the past now.

 

Generally I would say yes, as material properties, compositions and quality control should keep the risk low, however, that was the case before the previous 47's started with the issue, Mazak rot had been under control for some time before, but lax quality control is always a risk. Simply put, as long as a manufacturer (and I mean the factory that builds the locos rather than Messrs Heljan Hornby Bachmann etc) does not have a robust system in place to prevent contamination or messed up material ratios, then the risk persists.  

[Phil Parker]

1 minute ago, Global said:

Quite serious. No different to any other product from a shop if you decide you no longer want it for whatever reason and it’s unused/unopened - unless you know different and model shops have some different set of trading standards?! 

 

You get to return an item if it's not fit for purpose, not because you decide you no longer want it "for whatever reason" (different rules apply for distance selling). Anything beyond that is down to the retailer. Not fit for purpose isn't likely to mean a tiny discrepancy in the shape of a window frame, especially since the wheels and track gauge are wronger.

[Gilbert]

8 minutes ago, Global said:

something that vaguely resembles what it’s supposed to be

I appreciate that accuracy as with beauty is subjective but that does seems a little strong?

[Global]

10 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Please put Captain Hyperbole back in his box.

Look I get it - some don’t care or don’t see it, their choice. Some do, their choice.

 

What’s the point of a forum if not to discuss? It’s agree with us or shut up! 
 

Can’t wait for the review... Heljan have brought out a new 25, it’s wonderful. The End! 

[Global]

12 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

You get to return an item if it's not fit for purpose, not because you decide you no longer want it "for whatever reason" (different rules apply for distance selling). Anything beyond that is down to the retailer. Not fit for purpose isn't likely to mean a tiny discrepancy in the shape of a window frame, especially since the wheels and track gauge are wronger.

I do disagree with that but if you can point me in the direction of that then I’ll take a look, however from the Which site it would appear you have more not less rights to return based on the fact you are relying on a brief description or photograph and may not match what you expected...

 

“The Consumer Contracts Regulations

When you buy goods online you have additional rights to return them.

This is because your decision may be based on a brief description or a photograph – so what you receive isn't always quite what you’d expected.

Under the Consumer Contracts Regulations, you are allowed to return an item if you simply change your mind.”

[The Ghost of IKB]

29 minutes ago, Global said:

  is why would I replace Bachmann models with something that looks less like a Class X (insert class of choice here!) than what I already have?

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you say but can you really be serious about this statement applying to the 25? I get that you feel disappointed that its not as good as youd like, but even with the inaccuracies pointed out its significantly better than the Bachmann model in every way.  Credit were credits due, its a big step up, not perfect but much, much better.

[Global]

15 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

I appreciate that accuracy as with beauty is subjective but that does seems a little strong?

Apologies, it was a bit more generalised than necessarily just about the 25, but I didn’t make that clear. 
 

That honour is probably reserved for the Dapol 150 from years ago! 

[AY Mod]

15 minutes ago, Global said:

What’s the point of a forum if not to discuss?

 

In answer to your question it's not for people to bang on relentlessly on minor points; people will either agree with you or disagree but to keep repeating yourself just annoys people (me included). Hopefully that's clear enough for you.

[The Ghost of IKB]

Anyway when is this arriving, i want to buy some, and whats more when we've got them in our mitts we can start arguing all over again. Hurrah!

[Global]

3 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

I agree with a lot of what you say but can you really be serious about this statement applying to the 25? I get that you feel disappointed that its not as good as youd like, but even with the inaccuracies pointed out its significantly better than the Bachmann model in every way.  Credit were credits due, its a big step up, not perfect but much, much better.

I probably should call it a day now as it wasn’t my intention to fill half a thread this morning! 
 

I guess it’s more born out of frustration than anything, basically being told it doesn’t matter to some so it shouldn’t matter to you! 
 

I agree that it has a lot of potential and maybe on attempt two or three it’ll be a great model, I really wanted to buy some of these (and the 45 - and still hoping they can turn the 47 around) but I don’t think it offers enough improvement visually to ditch the Bachmann fleet just yet.

[Global]

11 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

In answer to your question it's not for people to bang on relentlessly on minor points; people will either agree with you or disagree but to keep repeating yourself just annoys people (me included). Hopefully that's clear enough for you.

Crystal! 

[Gilbert]

37 minutes ago, Global said:

Apologies, it was a bit more generalised than necessarily just about the 25, but I didn’t make that clear. 
 

That honour is probably reserved for the Dapol 150 from years ago! 

There are probably many veterans of the "Lima wars" of the 1980s on here who may think the Bachmann 25 is a gem so I suppose it depends on your expectations...

[AY Mod]

37 minutes ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Anyway when is this arriving, i want to buy some,

 

Soonish; I believe a container landed on the wrong side of the channel last week containing some so that needs sorting and the stuff for the UK sending over.

[frobisher]

59 minutes ago, Global said:

I do disagree with that but if you can point me in the direction of that then I’ll take a look, however from the Which site it would appear you have more not less rights to return based on the fact you are relying on a brief description or photograph and may not match what you expected...

 

Which is not "for whatever reason"... 

[Gilbert]

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Soonish; I believe a container landed on the wrong side of the channel last week containing some so that needs sorting and the stuff for the UK sending over.

I thought we were the wrong side of the channel these days....I'll get me coat..sorry.

[rob D2]

2 hours ago, Global said:

I probably should call it a day now as it wasn’t my intention to fill half a thread this morning! 
 

I guess it’s more born out of frustration than anything, basically being told it doesn’t matter to some so it shouldn’t matter to you! 
 

I agree that it has a lot of potential and maybe on attempt two or three it’ll be a great model, I really wanted to buy some of these (and the 45 - and still hoping they can turn the 47 around) but I don’t think it offers enough improvement visually to ditch the Bachmann fleet just yet.

Has always been the way. Some will be happy with a potato on 8 wheels, some will insist the drivers ashtray has 3D printed Rothmans butts from 1978.

 

The frustration is being on one side or another and being told your view is bogus.

 

I think the killer is the over emotive language that’s sometimes gets applied to a plastic model train.

 

Anybody remember a certain magazine crying , “ blood on their hands “ about something or other. Jeez.

 

 

[Phil Parker]

4 hours ago, Global said:

Look I get it - some don’t care or don’t see it, their choice. Some do, their choice.

 

What’s the point of a forum if not to discuss? It’s agree with us or shut up! 
 

Can’t wait for the review... Heljan have brought out a new 25, it’s wonderful. The End! 

 

There is a difference between commenting on a specific aspects of a model, and saying it doesn't look anything like Class X. Your posts have been light on detail, unlike many of the others on here who have taken the time to list specifics they don't like. There is nothing to be gained on a forum, and quite a lot lost, by filling it with endless posts with fact-free wails of anger.

 

4 hours ago, Global said:

I do disagree with that but if you can point me in the direction of that then I’ll take a look, however from the Which site it would appear you have more not less rights to return based on the fact you are relying on a brief description or photograph and may not match what you expected...

 

“The Consumer Contracts Regulations

When you buy goods online you have additional rights to return them.

This is because your decision may be based on a brief description or a photograph – so what you receive isn't always quite what you’d expected.

Under the Consumer Contracts Regulations, you are allowed to return an item if you simply change your mind.”

 

Which bit of my comment "(different rules apply for distance selling)" did you fail to understand. Buy something you later don't like from a real shop and you have no automatic right to take it back. Buy online and it IS different, as I said.

[Crisis Rail]

5 hours ago, Global said:

Basically yes. I think we’ll disagree on whether they’re negligible or not though! 
 

The point I’m trying to make is why would I replace Bachmann models with something that looks less like a Class X (insert class of choice here!) than what I already have?

 

I agree Heljan seem to make a cracking chassis, but the body always seems to let it down with silly (but not unimportant to some) errors. If those errors didn’t matter to sales then you’d expect them to leave them as is, but they do seem to eventually try to correct them as they have with the 33 and 86 for example. So why not put the effort in to get them right at the start?

 

As someone has already mentioned, there will be a percentage who will be happy with something that vaguely resembles what it’s supposed to be and will purchase anyway, but there will be those who will not.

 

Those who don’t care won’t not buy it because it’s correct so you’ll get them regardless! But they’re putting off a potential section of the market by this kind of ‘it’ll do attitude’. 
 

What percentage of the market falls into each category I wouldn’t like to guess though.

 

We’re also encouraged to pre order more these days it seems - so it’s even more of a case of trusting what will turn out at the end. But if that’s not to the standard suggested then yes I’ll return them - but more likely I will have seen the finished article and cancelled the order before dispatch. 
 

Lima were basic models, but for the time I think they actually captured the look ok on most things! 
 

When you think of the technology and research material available now, it makes the Heljan errors all the more annoying. 

 

We are fast approaching "watchmaking" quality in manufacture today far surpassing anything imaginable even a decade ago.

Yes the bar is high and getting higher.

But maybe you should try building one yourself in kit form and post your efforts up on here.

 

[Crisis Rail]

4 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

Soonish; I believe a container landed on the wrong side of the channel last week containing some so that needs sorting and the stuff for the UK sending over.

 

Can't wait.

 

[ColinK]

7 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Anyway when is this arriving, i want to buy some, and whats more when we've got them in our mitts we can start arguing all over again. Hurrah!

I’ve no interest in your (or anyone’s) arguing. It would be far better if you did it somewhere else.