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HELJAN UNVEILS ‘OO’ GAUGE 25/3 AND ‘ETHEL’ FOR 2019


Andy Y
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8 hours ago, brenn said:

O No SLW had just announced their 25/2 25/3 and Ethel........well that blown it for me I’ll wait and see that first.......if it as good as my sound SLW 24 I’ll not be getting a Heljan  25 

 

B

Same here, whilst the Heljan samples have looked great. I’m sure the SLw model will have less errors. Although still interesting to see how the Heljan model arrives. Maybe a price drop? Although it’s very early. 

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47 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

Maybe a price drop?

 

One thing that I suspect is massively overestimated on these threads is the percentage of people that are actually concerned about details to the degree expressed here. 

 

Even the supposedly poorer stuff Heljan produce sells and this is clearly a well detailed model and for most represents an improvement. So the number of people that would actually prepared to switch and pay considerably more, probably wouldn't touch Heljans margins that significantly.

 

So really depends what the price differential is and we dont know yet but would have to be fairly comparable to affect Heljan's, I suspect.

 

Would actually be interesting to know the numbers as it would be a pointer to the old debate around what level of detail most people are prepared to pay for!

 

Edit: removed my assumption about price difference.

Edited by Hal Nail
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Have to say that I have, with a heavy heart, canceled my Heljan order for their ETHEL .... be interesting to see is SLW produce a motored or un-motored one .... either way am looking forward to this model and this may be a case of the 'smaller' manufacturer usurping the 'bigger' manufacturer and their offerings .... time will tell I guess ...

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The SLW one is £185 in DC form so I think Heljan under cuts it already (discounted ) so I cant see a reduction of price . 

 

I'm not technical and don't know detail on the 25 , but I've always thought the Heljan one looked too flat faced . It might be I'm comparing it to the Bachmann one , which maybe wrong , but looking at the SLW one it somehow looks the part .

 

As a "nice to have" customer rather than "I really must have one " I think I'll wait and see the comparisons .  I am tempted to own an SLW model though as I've always thought of them as being something rather special . There's just too many models emerging at moment , going to have to reign it in a bit . I quite fancy an Accurascale Deltic too , as I think it will also be rather special , then theres the Heljan 86 .............as well as all the other things I've got on order

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

Do we know how long the slw one has been in development compared to the Heljan model? 

 

The flyer states: 'The complicated tooling is complete. The decoration has been passed. The final samples have been examined, refined and approved.'

 

...and it appears from other content that Phil has had the concept of a definitive 25 in his sights for over 40 years.

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1 hour ago, Class 158 productions said:

Do we know how long the slw one has been in development compared to the Heljan model? 

I think for a very long time, the chassis block on their first release class 24 has engine room details and PCB has locations for LEDs to light up the interior of the engine room. Only the late bodied class 25/2 and the class 25/3 have windows to see inside.

 

I haven't spoken to Phil for over a year but in my last conversation with him he didn't say yes or no to a class 25 but more of wait and see.

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1 hour ago, 'CHARD said:

 

The flyer states: 'The complicated tooling is complete. The decoration has been passed. The final samples have been examined, refined and approved.'

 

...and it appears from other content that Phil has had the concept of a definitive 25 in his sights for over 40 years.

Wow! Just seen this announcement on the Scalefour Forum. And they're doing an ETHEL too. Saved at the 11th hour! 

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2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I think for a very long time, the chassis block on their first release class 24 has engine room details and PCB has locations for LEDs to light up the interior of the engine room. Only the late bodied class 25/2 and the class 25/3 have windows to see inside.

 

Plastic inserts to enable different details to be represented.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/129904-Bachmann-class-25-retool-announced-2018/&do=findComment&comment=3032951

 

Cant remember if the SLW 24 PCB has provision for the engine room light/LEDs. The latest B'mann 25 definitely has.

 

 

 

Edited by Porcy Mane
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45 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Cant remember if the SLW 24 PCB has provision for the engine room light/LEDs. The latest B'mann 25 definitely has.

 

 

Whilst I cant recall light capability on the PCB, I am pretty sure that the Class 24 chassis has recesses for Class 25/2 25/3 windows.

 

Edit: the wiring diagram shown on the front page of the SLW Website lists "F07 cab and engineroom..." so I assume that is lights.


Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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May I suggest, only partly tongue-in-cheek, that rather than duplicate themselves to death over a small number of diesel classes the manufacturers opt for steam items - the Fowler 2-6-2T mysteriously springs to mind - where the possibility of being gazumped is almost non-existent. 

Edited by Downer
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18 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

I am pretty sure that the Class 24 chassis has recesses for Class 25/2 25/3 windows.

 

 

Ermmmmm, I thought that's what my posted link, linked to a photograph of.

 

Bang goes my idea of saving bandwidth.

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Just now, Porcy Mane said:

 

 

Ermmmmm, I thought that's what my posted link, linked to a photograph of.

 

Bang goes my idea of saving bandwidth.

 

Sorry Porcy Mane, I saw Bachmann in the link and your statement "The latest B'mann 25 definitely has." and thought that was what your link was referring to.

Roy

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16 minutes ago, Downer said:

May I suggest, only partly tongue-in-cheek, that rather than duplicate themselves to death over a small number of diesel classes the manufacturers opt for steam items - the Fowler 2-6-2T mysteriously springs to mind - where the possibility of being gazumped is almost non-existent. 

I know what you mean, but I dispute the use of the word "duplicate". The dictionary (well, Google) defines this as "exactly like something else, especially through having been copied" and "one of two or more identical things" [my emphasis in both cases]. What I want in a model of a Class 25 is precisely not a duplicate, since I don't want anything which is exactly the same as or identical to the existing / imminent models; I want something that is more than "near enough" or "that'll do, it's almost right". I now have my wish, and those that want the "near enough" model have theirs. Everybody wins. (Except, admittedly, those who want a Fowler 2-6-2.)  

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43 minutes ago, Downer said:

May I suggest, only partly tongue-in-cheek, that rather than duplicate themselves to death over a small number of diesel classes the manufacturers opt for steam items - the Fowler 2-6-2T mysteriously springs to mind - where the possibility of being gazumped is almost non-existent. 

Ah!!!

 

Many of the classes of steam loco we would like to see do not exist so a lot of research is needed and you could end up with a poor looking model. Many diesels do remain intact it is possible to 3D scan them, take detailed measurements from them, photograph them at angles not normally taken and still end up with a poor looking model.

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3 hours ago, Downer said:

May I suggest, only partly tongue-in-cheek, that rather than duplicate themselves to death over a small number of diesel classes the manufacturers opt for steam items - the Fowler 2-6-2T mysteriously springs to mind - where the possibility of being gazumped is almost non-existent. 

 

Steamers have been suffering greatly from duplication as well. 2 Manors and  2 Terriers for a start. And those Great Western saddle tanks Heljan did also covered by Kernow.

 

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6 hours ago, JSpencer said:

 

Steamers have been suffering greatly from duplication as well. 2 Manors and  2 Terriers for a start. And those Great Western saddle tanks Heljan did also covered by Kernow.

 

Yet no K4 and no decent Saint. Bachmann was just starting a custom of announcing a new model at the annual Collectors’ Club event and having the prototype present but stopped again, just when I had convinced myself that a Lanky 0-6-0 was going to be announced. There are many steam locomotives which have not been modelled RTR at all. There seems to be a voracious appetite for new models; I wonder, seeing as I’ve mentioned Bachmann, if minds might be changed and the Royal Scot and J39 started up again. They were announced, then suspended.

 

I wonder how the Bachmann and Heljan 25s will compare on price.

Edited by No Decorum
To drag myself back on topic.
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Its a shame that Heljan didn't (couldn't?) act on information given by so many people to correct known errors with their rat. It was plainly obvious from the class 24 chassis that SLW were going to do the 25/2/3 eventually, being a question of when(?) rather than if. Plus there has been the new tooled Bachmann ones looming on the distant horizon, so they needed to get it absolutely spot on.

 

I may have pounced on seeing one in my local shop who do stock Hj, but my pre-order decision to go with Bachmann was strengthened by how good the headcode class 24 is so I trust that they will get the cab correct where Hj have fallen short; plus they're doing the 25/1. Even so, that has been the easiest decision to cancel pre-orders that I've ever taken. Sorry to both Hj and B, there is a definitive Rat on the way. And knowing that I simply can't in my right mind fork out for a known to be erroneous model when there is something significantly superior on the way as well as a presumably dimensionally correct this time around retool from Barwell. Cost doesn't factor in for me on this one where normally I'm quite critical of the way prices are going; with their 24/0 track record I'd happily be paying even more for the SLW model.

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On 26/02/2021 at 21:32, Zunnan said:

Its a shame that Heljan didn't (couldn't?) act on information given by so many people to correct known errors with their rat.

Hi,

I can't let this pass without comment. We actually made a number of revisions to the tooling after feedback about the first sample. For example, the windscreen frames and tail light frames have been modified to remove the rivet heads that were too prominent. After running tests we also made some modifications to the bogies to improve performance. 

I'm afraid that the old "Heljan never listens to feedback" line of argument is out of date - we've made mods to several models in response to customer feedback in the last couple of years. It's not always possible, but if we can do it we will. 

Ben

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I can understand why that couldn't pass without comment,  but I was wondering what sort of criteria there is for including or omitting features. 

I ask because where a prototype exists the modelling community expects absolute fidelity but I'm wondering if that is a valid expectation. There has, surely,  to be a cost/benefit line drawn somewhere but if that is so where might it be?

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