Jump to content
 

HELJAN UNVEILS ‘OO’ GAUGE 25/3 AND ‘ETHEL’ FOR 2019


Andy Y
 Share

Recommended Posts

39 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I can understand why that couldn't pass without comment,  but I was wondering what sort of criteria there is for including or omitting features. 

I ask because where a prototype exists the modelling community expects absolute fidelity but I'm wondering if that is a valid expectation. There has, surely,  to be a cost/benefit line drawn somewhere but if that is so where might it be?

It's done on a case-by-case basis. Sometimes where a particular feature is considered desirable at the start of a project it might have to be dropped during the development process as it isn't possible or practical, or it causes a performance issue. In my experience so far, it's rarely about cost unless it is something very complex or difficult. I can only speak about the projects I've had some involvement in, but I set out wanting to include as many features as possible. What is possible, and what is desirable, is changing all the time. 

With regard to the community expecting "absolute fidelity", that is certainly true for a small segment but most seem to accept that an element of compromise is necessary on small scale, mass-produced models. However, what is an acceptable compromise to one modeller will be a diabolical liberty for another - we all have our 'red lines'. 
It's not simply a cost/benefit calculation, all sorts of factors come into it - practicality, performance, ease (or otherwise) of assembly, whether a part can be moulded as required, risk of accidental damage etc etc. 

  • Like 4
  • Agree 2
  • Thanks 3
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 61661 said:

Hi,

I can't let this pass without comment. We actually made a number of revisions to the tooling after feedback about the first sample. For example, the windscreen frames and tail light frames have been modified to remove the rivet heads that were too prominent. After running tests we also made some modifications to the bogies to improve performance. 

I'm afraid that the old "Heljan never listens to feedback" line of argument is out of date - we've made mods to several models in response to customer feedback in the last couple of years. It's not always possible, but if we can do it we will. 

Ben

 

I understand that revisions were made, it is very clear that they have been. However, other ones remain pertaining to the actual shape of the body of the model and presumably are beyond a reasonable revision to the tooling whereas removing heavy detail and amending smaller components is a simpler prospect and so was carried out.

 

This is where I say that you didn't/couldn't make said revisions. Not for a lack of listening, more from a technical (and time) standpoint imposed by the progress in tooling. They were issues which needed finding and addressing at the CAD stage before metal was cut, were missed and picked up on too late. Given the progress of the tooling and issues presented some were probably a step past a viable fix without considerable reworking that would most likely have impacted on tooling, production slots, release dates etc which would presumably also result in financial impact as well.

 

I can well understand why certain things wouldn't be resolved when things have progressed beyond the point they can be remedied, and I do believe and accept it is as you have said; if you could do it you would have.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Zunnan said:

 

I understand that revisions were made, it is very clear that they have been. However, other ones remain pertaining to the actual shape of the body of the model and presumably are beyond a reasonable revision to the tooling whereas removing heavy detail and amending smaller components is a simpler prospect and so was carried out.

 

This is where I say that you didn't/couldn't make said revisions. Not for a lack of listening, more from a technical (and time) standpoint imposed by the progress in tooling. They were issues which needed finding and addressing at the CAD stage before metal was cut, were missed and picked up on too late. Given the progress of the tooling and issues presented some were probably a step past a viable fix without considerable reworking that would most likely have impacted on tooling, production slots, release dates etc which would presumably also result in financial impact as well.

 

I can well understand why certain things wouldn't be resolved when things have progressed beyond the point they can be remedied, and I do believe and accept it is as you have said; if you could do it you would have.

There have been a few occasions since I joined Heljan where we have invested in mods to tooling to cure shape or positioning issues raised by customers and we will continue to do so if it is justified. Reactions from people who've seen our new 25 'in the flesh' have been overwhelmingly positive so far, but if you have reservations it's absolutely your prerogative to choose the model that most closely satisfies your demands.

 

As an aside, almost all versions of our Class 25 are now sold out at the warehouse (with only small numbers of the green SYP, blue SYP and blue FYE 'D' versions left), so the decision to scale down our O gauge model has already been justified. Now we can start looking at a second batch. Any requests? 

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 61661 said:

There have been a few occasions since I joined Heljan where we have invested in mods to tooling to cure shape or positioning issues raised by customers and we will continue to do so if it is justified. Reactions from people who've seen our new 25 'in the flesh' have been overwhelmingly positive so far, but if you have reservations it's absolutely your prerogative to choose the model that most closely satisfies your demands.

 

As an aside, almost all versions of our Class 25 are now sold out at the warehouse (with only small numbers of the green SYP, blue SYP and blue FYE 'D' versions left), so the decision to scale down our O gauge model has already been justified. Now we can start looking at a second batch. Any requests? 

 

Preserved variants please Ben, Sybilla, perhaps in its off shade livery it carried for some time. 

 

Paul. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Paul_sterling said:

 

Preserved variants please Ben, Sybilla, perhaps in its off shade livery it carried for some time. 

 

Paul. 

 

18 minutes ago, 25901 said:

Some nice weathered rust pots as they were end the end with BR and some more 25/9s, not just the polished tu@d that was 25912

OK. Thanks for the suggestions. I have a weathered and tatty 25/9 on my shortlist already, as well as one of the late blue with stencilled Welsh castle names. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 06/07/2018 at 09:08, Martin_R said:

Think I will reserve judgment until they appear in the flesh or the SLW 25 arrives.........

I knew I was right to wait, my wallet is saying otherwise but I am going to ignore it big time........

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
5 hours ago, 61661 said:

so the decision to scale down our O gauge model has already been justified. 

 

Don't encourage those who think a "shrink gun" exists! 

 

Perhaps you could confirm or dispel one thing which comes up time and again - is there actually much cost saving when doing an existing model in a different scale?

Link to post
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

 

Don't encourage those who think a "shrink gun" exists! 

 

Perhaps you could confirm or dispel one thing which comes up time and again - is there actually much cost saving when doing an existing model in a different scale?

Haha. The existence of the 'shrink gun' and its counterpart, the 'bigginator', is finally confirmed! 

 

In reality, it doesn't really save any cost when we reduce or scale up a model. It saves a bit of time in the research phase as you have the materials to hand, and it can give you a bit of a head start on the deco artwork, but the CAD still needs to be done (with extra bits added, or smaller parts turned into mouldings, depending on whether you are going up or down in size) and by far the biggest part of the cost is the tooling, which cannot be repeated. 

 

In the case of the OO 25, we also went from one body version in O to two in OO, so that we could offer both the original and revised exhausts, which added time and additional cost. 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, 61661 said:

 

OK. Thanks for the suggestions. I have a weathered and tatty 25/9 on my shortlist already, as well as one of the late blue with stencilled Welsh castle names. 

Yes, definately some late surviving banger blue versions would be most welcome. Obviously you cannot please 'all of the people all of the time' but I was a little surprised at the blue TOPS domino versions chosen in the first batch being relative early withdrawals; 093 withdrawn in 1982 and 252 in 1980 respectively.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
19 hours ago, 61661 said:

As an aside, almost all versions of our Class 25 are now sold out at the warehouse (with only small numbers of the green SYP, blue SYP and blue FYE 'D' versions left), so the decision to scale down our O gauge model has already been justified. Now we can start looking at a second batch. Any requests? 

Hi Ben

 

Boiler fitted 25/2, in green and small yella.

 

ScR one with a tablet catcher recess, again in green.

 

Please

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

The one-off celebrity locos don't do it for me, and these are missing in the first batch

 

Pre-TOPS blue, non-celebrity

TOPS blue, headcode, non-weathered

 

I know the TMC Ltd Ed covers TOPS green, but there were another 21 locos to chose from so could be a main range item down the line.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Based the the sold out at the warehouse comment, I'd just like to see blue/green FYE no number versions. As for  headcodes, as long as I can alter digits for dots or vice versa I really don't mind. In fact I'd go as far as leaving of the double arrow as well. Some years ago there was a US company moulding 1.87th air hoses in rubber, whilst they are not suitable for BR use, It's something I'm surprised no body has picked up on. 

Edited by w124bob
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Ben

 

Boiler fitted 25/2, in green and small yella.

 

ScR one with a tablet catcher recess, again in green.

 

Please

Hi Clive,

Thanks for the suggestions. Both of these would require new tooling, which we do not have planned for this model at the moment. One to consider for the long term though. 

 

Ben

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, WILLIAM said:

Yes, definately some late surviving banger blue versions would be most welcome. Obviously you cannot please 'all of the people all of the time' but I was a little surprised at the blue TOPS domino versions chosen in the first batch being relative early withdrawals; 093 withdrawn in 1982 and 252 in 1980 respectively.

Thanks. Some late survivors are definitely in the plan. 25093 was chosen because it looks a bit different with the numbers on the bodyside and 25252 was selected as we had some excellent photos of both sides. We also needed a good spread of regions to *try* and keep as many people happy as possible. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, 61661 said:

Thanks. Some late survivors are definitely in the plan. 25093 was chosen because it looks a bit different with the numbers on the bodyside and 25252 was selected as we had some excellent photos of both sides. We also needed a good spread of regions to *try* and keep as many people happy as possible. 

Thanks Ben. 25912 in its special livery will keep me duly occupied until then but great to hear they are in the plan.

 

Here's a shot I took of 904 and 903 passing through Shotton in late 1986 just as I remember the 25s from my early spotting days.

25904+25903 Shotton 23-12-86.jpg

Edited by WILLIAM
  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
11 hours ago, 61661 said:

Hi Clive,

Thanks for the suggestions. Both of these would require new tooling, which we do not have planned for this model at the moment. One to consider for the long term though. 

 

Ben

Hi Ben

 

That surprises me when your company has been able to produce class 26 and class 27s with body variations like tablet catcher recesses.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Ben

 

That surprises me when your company has been able to produce class 26 and class 27s with body variations like tablet catcher recesses.

Don’t forget the 17 has them as well

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

He didnt say it wasnt possible to tool recesses, he said they weren't planning to make changes to the existing tooling at this stage.

 

If a model sells out quickly, a further run of the existing one makes sense as the margins are likely to increase given the high level of fixed cost originally.

 

If you start introducing cost, with the risk there is less demand left so soon after the first run, it is no longer a shot to nothing.

Edited by Hal Nail
  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, brenn said:

Don’t forget the 17 has them as well

 

I think Clive was referring to the BRCWs that featured class members with and without tablet catcher recesses; whereas all Claytons had the recesses throughout their short lives.

 

Tooling long-lived prototypes usually introduces plenty of detail variants.

 

Edited by 'CHARD
tidying up
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...