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HELJAN UNVEILS ‘OO’ GAUGE 25/3 AND ‘ETHEL’ FOR 2019


Andy Y
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The other factor to beware of is the detail variations of the 25s - starting out with silencer boxes and circular exhausts, and see through boiler grilles and bodyside steps. Dozens of 25s had the No 2 end boiler room area replated flush. I wonder if Heljan are going to choose numbers carefully to avoid these.

 

Here is a BR Sulzers image of 25123 showing the lack of any ralsed metal work where the boiler room grille and blanking plate used to be

https://www.derbysulzers.com/25123toton.jpg 

 

Its over to you Ben !!! 

 

They have avoided the sheeted boiler grille locos so far, though only about 10% of the 25/3s had this feature anyway.

Edited by stovepipe
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Surprised that D7612 is not included as this is a preserved example, would have snapped that one up as it was the loco that hauled me on my first trip to Fort William in 1966, and therefore would have been appropriate for my layout.  Maybe a later issue.

 

Jim

 

There are quite a few (9?) preserved class 25/3, and D7612 was one of a batch of 13 with tablet catcher recesses.

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I would like SLW to produce the class 25 rather than Heljan as no doubt the SLW one would be the better version in my mind, judging by the class 24.

This kills any hope of SLW making money from a class 25 or at least a large enough amount of money to justify the development cost.....SLW...IT'S A CLASS 47!!! that your next project....please:)

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This kills any hope of SLW making money from a class 25 or at least a large enough amount of money to justify the development cost.....SLW...IT'S A CLASS 47!!! that your next project....please:)

I agree about the SLW 25/3, the shame is they would have had things like the correct wheels which on the basis of the CAD drawings the Heljan one doesn't ( and before anyone pounces yes I know they can still change and it is only a CAD but is it likely..).

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Everyone says it’s a shame for SLW, but while I do appreciate them announcing only when the model is ready ,had they openly declared they were going to make a 25, then they might have avoided this release. That said , as far as I’m aware no one has ever stated they are going to do a 25 it’s just we all assume it’s a follow on from the 24. It took ages to decide what the next 24s were going to be , I’m afraid you’ve got to be a bit more nimble on your feet or another manufacturer encroaching on your territory is what happens.

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I will always reserve judgement on Heljan products until I actually see them (and that's becoming increasingly common with the other 'manufacturers' too).

 

What I'd like to see in the very high detail sector is a range of accurate and highly detailed Mark 1s.

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There are quite a few (9?) preserved class 25/3, and D7612 was one of a batch of 13 with tablet catcher recesses.

 

Not too tricky a feature to model .... here she is with recess 40 seconds in...number at "wrong" end too....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygQG8gXOtUQ&t=154s

 

Phil

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Not too tricky a feature to model .... here she is with recess 40 seconds in...number at "wrong" end too....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygQG8gXOtUQ&t=154s

 

Phil

Good morning Lord Bullock of Abbotswood

 

I hope one noticed my conversion of the Hornby class 25 model is that of a Scottish 25/3 with tablet catcher recess in the photograph earlier in this thread. .

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It has parallels with Hattons 66, other than Heljan leveraging existing design work (Hattons O gauge 66?). I think we may well see more of this as the market gets more crowded with manufacturers/commissioners. Offering lots of liveries at once is probably part of this process of shutting down potential competition...

 The diesel traction fleet has been Heljan's bread and butter in OO, and they must be doing it on the basis of achieveing adequate sales returns. They have trotted out all manner of product that no one else looked at, prototypes, early casualties among pilot scheme designs, rare shunters; all of which suggests to me they can make a go of smaller sales volumes than the principal competitors require.

 

Bottom of the diesel traction barrel time now, 'everything' significant with two bogies has a centre motor drive model (OK, the 21/29 and 59 have yet to see daylight) there's nowhere else to go but duplication. So it is a fishing expedition. Derisked by Heljan having the research from an O gauge model, a well proven BoBo mechanism template in CAD and a popular widespread class with a good number of livery options. What happens if we release a duplicate? Will it do the sales volume required?

 

I suspect it will for Heljan, and only hurts Bachmann

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My experience with Heljan products running qualities in OO means I’d probably prefer a Bachmann version even if it’s a 25 / other sort.

 

With increasing duplication I think we will see a rise in brand loyalty

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I agree with the point that the only way for diesel now is duplication. Yes, there is still the Fell, but we've even had RTR models of prototypes like Kestrel, Falcon and Lion, and obscure stuff like the NBL Type 1. And most of the more oddball releases seem to have been done by Heljan, who carved out a nice niche making models of types that conventional wisdom assured us would never be viable as RTR models. What else are they going to do in OO that hasn't been done or announced in terms of diesels? There are still some electrics to model, the big gaps are in MU trains where we have trains like the Electrostar which operate in huge numbers but which have yet to be even mentioned as an RTR possibility. The same wisdom that says an Electrostar wouldn't be viable is pretty much the same wisdom that said models of SR and BR Southern third rail electrics weren't viable for decades until Bachmann made the 4-CEP.

 

In terms of this announcement, good for Heljan. They're not shafting anybody, and if people want to wait for other suppliers to make these then they're quite free to do so.

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A decent Class 06 at some point would be very nice to see.  The Hornby toy really doesn't cut the mustard and deserves to be confined to model railway history.

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...With increasing duplication I think we will see a rise in brand loyalty

 Maybe. No manufacturer - or kit maker for that matter - can offer anything like a full range of choice in the model railway sphere, which will be far too restrictive for many of us. Personally I am brand blind, it can have any name on the box or none at all, the available* product that best meets my requirements is the one that gets purchased.

 

* Available is important. Bird in the hand and all that...

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I agree with the point that the only way for diesel now is duplication. Yes, there is still the Fell, but we've even had RTR models of prototypes like Kestrel, Falcon and Lion, and obscure stuff like the NBL Type 1. And most of the more oddball releases seem to have been done by Heljan, who carved out a nice niche making models of types that conventional wisdom assured us would never be viable as RTR models. What else are they going to do in OO that hasn't been done or announced in terms of diesels? There are still some electrics to model, the big gaps are in MU trains where we have trains like the Electrostar which operate in huge numbers but which have yet to be even mentioned as an RTR possibility. The same wisdom that says an Electrostar wouldn't be viable is pretty much the same wisdom that said models of SR and BR Southern third rail electrics weren't viable for decades until Bachmann made the 4-CEP.

 

In terms of this announcement, good for Heljan. They're not shafting anybody, and if people want to wait for other suppliers to make these then they're quite free to do so.

If Southern Region Units had been ultra viable then Hornby might have made a profit over the last 5 years, as for the 4CEP, they were giving them away 2 years ago to clear them out. The Bachmann 4CEP was the wrong unit for mass sales & liveries, the 4CIG was the choice for anyone who knows about liveries & units OR the Refurbished 4CEP.

 

Charlie

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If Southern Region Units had been ultra viable then Hornby might have made a profit over the last 5 years, as for the 4CEP, they were giving them away 2 years ago to clear them out. The Bachmann 4CEP was the wrong unit for mass sales & liveries, the 4CIG was the choice for anyone who knows about liveries & units OR the Refurbished 4CEP.

 

Charlie

 

And just how many releases don't end up in bargain bucket sales if you wait long enough? I do agree, all Hornby's financial woes are down to the non ultra-viability of Southern region units xD

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Why????????????

Sadly a Class 25 is the big seller, the 24 is cleverly designed to make the most out of there tooling, sadly without the 25 being on sale within 12 months they will loose 75% of the market to Heljan.  This 75% is the profit to move onto other things.  Its a shame the the SLW Project has Heljan breathing down there necks but I believe there is no love lost between them due to past issues.   I suggest the SLW 25 is speedly rushed out 'QUICK'

 

Charlie

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I agree with the point that the only way for diesel now is duplication. Yes, there is still the Fell, but we've even had RTR models of prototypes like Kestrel, Falcon and Lion, and obscure stuff like the NBL Type 1. And most of the more oddball releases seem to have been done by Heljan, who carved out a nice niche making models of types that conventional wisdom assured us would never be viable as RTR models. What else are they going to do in OO that hasn't been done or announced in terms of diesels? There are still some electrics to model, the big gaps are in MU trains where we have trains like the Electrostar which operate in huge numbers but which have yet to be even mentioned as an RTR possibility. The same wisdom that says an Electrostar wouldn't be viable is pretty much the same wisdom that said models of SR and BR Southern third rail electrics weren't viable for decades until Bachmann made the 4-CEP.

 

In terms of this announcement, good for Heljan. They're not shafting anybody, and if people want to wait for other suppliers to make these then they're quite free to do so.

 

Why does it need to be diesel though? Heljan are a modelmaker and have made Steam, Diesel and Electric prototypes ... they're all just plastic bodies on a heavy die-cast chassis after all. I'm surprised they've gone for duplication when there would seem to be more open goals for them to aim at ... Class 120 anyone? re-bodied Class 86? Classes 81-84 locos?

 

While I like Heljan models (I must have about 30 of their locos) I'm not convinced they really match the best of the other manufacturers in terms of detailing ...a definitive model. Which for me would raise questions about whether they can really persuade people to replace their fleets of Bachmann or earlier Class 25s. Unless they differentiate what they're offering then duplication could be risky.

 

I'd really have preferred to see an SLW Class 25 being announced as an obvious follow on from their fantastic Class 24, but we'll see what Heljan can come up with

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The SLW Class 24 was released almost three years ago. If Heljan was simply trying to gazump SLW or stamp on them I don't think they would wait three years before announcing their model, which probably means the model will come out four - five years (or maybe more) after the class 24. If a company sits around and doesn't move on then they really can't complain if other companies progress projects.

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Bachmann have been gazumped here though... first the 66 now the 25... I suppose the 47 will be next by someone else.

 

 

Bachmann haven't been gazumped, they have been asleep at the wheel. If you don't react to the market for years and years, turning out the same old model in various liveries but not reflecting market requirements for greater fidelity, taking nice profits on old tooling etc,you are sending a clear signal to the market that there is demand for 66's. The fact that there are hundreds of them in reality, they will be on our railways for the foreseeable and there is a profusion of liveries means a large sustainable market for models. Bachmann may have to "Railroad" their model or do something else. The bottom line is that various manufacturers have struggled over the last 5-10 years to adapt to a wide range of changes (well discussed on RMWeb!) and this has left the door open for the more organised and, crucially the more financially savvy/stable companies to enter the market and compete head on.

 

Model choice is not only tactical in terms of what customers want but perhaps strategic in also making life difficult for competitors. That's business and Bachmann are having to play catch up for lost years of product and tooling development. At the moment no one seems to be tackling key Hornby models head on, which is presumably where Railroad helps them since they do a 66 but are not worried by more detailed £150+ versions. Bachmann don't have a mechanism at the moment to exploit older tooling.

 

Anyway, very much looking forward to the ETHEL's

Edited by ruggedpeak
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I agree with the point that the only way for diesel now is duplication. Yes, there is still the Fell, but we've even had RTR models of prototypes like Kestrel, Falcon and Lion, and obscure stuff like the NBL Type 1. And most of the more oddball releases seem to have been done by Heljan, who carved out a nice niche making models of types that conventional wisdom assured us would never be viable as RTR models. What else are they going to do in OO that hasn't been done or announced in terms of diesels? There are still some electrics to model, the big gaps are in MU trains where we have trains like the Electrostar which operate in huge numbers but which have yet to be even mentioned as an RTR possibility. The same wisdom that says an Electrostar wouldn't be viable is pretty much the same wisdom that said models of SR and BR Southern third rail electrics weren't viable for decades until Bachmann made the 4-CEP.

 

In terms of this announcement, good for Heljan. They're not shafting anybody, and if people want to wait for other suppliers to make these then they're quite free to do so.

Obscure, the NBL Type 1, I only have six of them, four scratchbuilt and two Heljans. I must say their NBL type 1 is darn good compared to some of the horrors they have dumped on the market, DP2, the Baby Deltic, the BTH Type 1 and the 86. That is why I question have Heljan scuttled any plans by SLW in regard to the class 25/3. They might beat Bachmann to the post with delivery time and steal sales form them but I don't think Phil is over worried by Heljan.

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