HELJAN UNVEILS ‘OO’ GAUGE 25/3 AND ‘ETHEL’ FOR 2019

[gridwatcher]

Sadly a Class 25 is the big seller, the 24 is cleverly designed to make the most out of there tooling, sadly without the 25 being on sale within 12 months they will loose 75% of the market to Heljan.  This 75% is the profit to move onto other things.  Its a shame the the SLW Project has Heljan breathing down there necks but I believe there is no love lost between them due to past issues.   I suggest the SLW 25 is speedly rushed out 'QUICK'

 

Charlie

 

No chance.....

[Phil Bullock]

Good morning Lord Bullock of Abbotswood

 

I hope one noticed my conversion of the Hornby class 25 model is that of a Scottish 25/3 with tablet catcher recess in the photograph earlier in this thread. .

 

One did indeed Mr Mortimore!

 

Nice one....

 

Phil

[Phil Bullock]

My experience with Heljan products running qualities in OO means I’d probably prefer a Bachmann version even if it’s a 25 / other sort.

 

With increasing duplication I think we will see a rise in brand loyalty

 

Would you include Hymek and 27 in that Rob?

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

 

[robertcwp]

I have lots of Heljan diesels and they are almost all very good runners. I have one Hymek where the gear on one axle tends to demesh but others are fine. Their Westerns may not look as good as Dapol's but Heljan's ones are in my experience vastly better runners.

[Downendian]

It was the release of the Bachmann 25/3 that drove the resurgence of my modelling in the 1990s/2000s. With all the errors they still run very sweetly, but the cab shape and false sole bar do still jar with me. I've yet to start on mods to remove the sole bar on my fleet of Derby type 2s, but will certainly have a couple of these. Nice one Heljan, I'm sure they're looking at shrinking a certain O gauge DMU as well. Please get the prominent roof grille right though, this is the major let down on their BRCW Bo-Bos.

Neil

[jjb1970]

On running qualities, Heljan seem to be a bit Jeckyl & Hyde. All of my Heljan diesels run beautifully, very smooth, powerful and quiet however they appear to have had a few issues with steam locomotives and the early class 17 models.

[caradoc]

On running qualities, Heljan seem to be a bit Jeckyl & Hyde. All of my Heljan diesels run beautifully, very smooth, powerful and quiet however they appear to have had a few issues with steam locomotives and the early class 17 models.

 

My early Hymeks and 47s have the horrible dark wheels which do nothing for good running, especially on DCC. Thankfully they now use far better wheels, which are also available as spares (although out of stock from Howes just now). It would have been good for customer relations had they offered replacement wheels for anyone with the earlier version at a discounted price (or even free !).

 

I hope Heljan's new 25 is both a good model and successful, however I wonder how much of a continuing market there is for such locomotives, given that Bachmann's 25 has been around for years, and before that there was Hornby's version. Financial considerations mean I am most unlikely to replace my existing fleet, which performs well enough anyway.

[rob D2]

Would you include Hymek and 27 in that Rob?

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

Never had either Phil, so I can’t commnent, but was seriously underwhelmed with the running and shape of the 47. That said I’m about to hack the bits off that shouldn’t be there off a Bachmann 47 bogie.

 

 

I would echo the thought that SLW should look at the 47.Theres room for improvement over the blue box one and the Vi one is done and dusted .

Edited July 7, 2018 by rob D2

[Steamport Southport]

I think that duplication with diesel locomotives is inevitable. Certainly with the low hanging fruit such as 08, 25, 47, 66, etc. I also think you need to constantly have new models as they become dated quite quickly (twenty years or so).

 

Maybe brand loyalty will come into it. You just have to look at the Hornby threads and Facebook page and the calls of "Why don't Hornby make a Class XYZ?", "Because Bachmann already make one", "I don't buy Bachmann" or "What is Bachmann?".

 

I also don't think that it will hurt SLW too much. I feel that SLW are going for a more niche market than Heljan, Bachmann, Hornby, etc. You don't exactly find them on the high street.

 

 

 

Jason

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...was seriously underwhelmed with the running and shape of the 47...

Their first entry to the UK market. Couldn't stomach the shape but several friends liked the drive - it was one of only about three or four that had the centre motor drive at introduction - but for reasons known only to themselves they manufactured it mechanically very 'tight'. I had to degrease and run them for hours to get the expected silky smooth freedom of movement. Was this a continental HO preference that led them to do this?

 

Whatever, the range appears free from it now, at least as far as their BoBo types I have sampled are concerned. It's the same standard long previously enjoyed in North American HO product, smooth, quiet, ample traction; and on the layout it doesn't matter what the box label says, the centre motor drives from all of Bach, Dapol, Heljan, Hornby, perform indistinguishably once given some running time after any initial adjustments that may be required. (I find it is a rare mechanism that cannot use a little help out of the box to ensure the best is obtained from it.)

[John Tomlinson]

It was the release of the Bachmann 25/3 that drove the resurgence of my modelling in the 1990s/2000s. With all the errors they still run very sweetly, but the cab shape and false sole bar do still jar with me. I've yet to start on mods to remove the sole bar on my fleet of Derby type 2s, but will certainly have a couple of these. Nice one Heljan, I'm sure they're looking at shrinking a certain O gauge DMU as well. Please get the prominent roof grille right though, this is the major let down on their BRCW Bo-Bos.

Neil

 

I'm in the same position with four of these, they run very well but I get feelings of guilt every time I look at the incorrect solebar. I can live with the cab shape which somehow seems less obvious on my green SYP ones.

 

Given Heljan's laudable penchant for making spares available, I'm inclined to hang on now and see if there's a moulding that turns up with their 25 that can be modded to use on my Bachmann examples.

 

John

Edited July 7, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[Downendian]

Excellent point John, I'll be looking straight at the Heljan spare sprues for their 25 when they appear, but they won't be around for very long if they can be used on the Bachmann model.

Neil

[Enterprisingwestern]

Slightly off tangent, but if Heljan could manage a decent Brush 2 there might be a bit of mileage in it, the definitive model is still awaited.

 

Mike.

[25901]

They have avoided the sheeted boiler grille locos so far, though only about 10% of the 25/3s had this feature anyway.

 

All 25/3 were built with boiler room grills but had them covered with a removable panel. In 1978-79 they overhauled some 25's with the boiler room totally replated with no grill but this was a massive mistake as this made the boiler room air tight and the resister banks and compressors would over heat and this mod. was dropped from later rebuilds.

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/25169derby79.jpg

https://www.derbysulzers.com/25214swindonih.jpg

 

The ones built with table catch recesses had a slightly different layout round the drivers desk to make room for the brake controllers, non of these cabs are with us now. D7612 has a standard 25/3 cabs and that is why the recess is a little small due to the train brake controller and AWS in the way.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The definitive Brush 2 model would be the one with a near indestructible chassis block, but a motor that gives up after half a dozen years in a nod to prototype fidelity. If the manufacturer were to kindly use a motor/flywheels/drive coupler combo compatible with the present Hornby, then present long suffering Ped owners would be able to repurpose the motors from rotted Hornby chassis blocks on their scrap lines: equilibrium restored, world peace secured; oh no, that's the heatstroke talking...

[stovepipe]

All 25/3 were built with boiler room grills but had them covered with a removable panel. In 1978-79 they overhauled some 25's with the boiler room totally replated with no grill but this was a massive mistake as this made the boiler room air tight and the resister banks and compressors would over heat and this mod. was dropped from later rebuilds.

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/25169derby79.jpg

https://www.derbysulzers.com/25214swindonih.jpg

 

The ones built with table catch recesses had a slightly different layout round the drivers desk to make room for the brake controllers, non of these cabs are with us now. D7612 has a standard 25/3 cabs and that is why the recess is a little small due to the train brake controller and AWS in the way.

Yes I know, that is what I mean by sheeted. Only 10% the 25/3s (25248 -25327) had the boiler grille removed and sheeted over. So far they have only picked locos with the blanking plate.

 

Heljan and others seem to be defining any later cab style loco as 25/3, including the 25/2, which seems a funny way of going about things as 25/2 included the earlier body style 25218-25247 as we know.

 

The query about D7612, was because someone was disappointed that it wasn't selected for a model, as it was preserved and he'd been hauled by it in 1966. I was just pointing out that with tablet catcher recess it wasn't a run of the mill example.

[25901]

Yes I know, that is what I mean by sheeted. Only 10% the 25/3s (25248 -25327) had the boiler grille removed and sheeted over. So far they have only picked locos with the blanking plate.

 

Heljan and others seem to be defining any later cab style loco as 25/3, including the 25/2, which seems a funny way of going about things as 25/2 included the earlier body style 25218-25247 as we know.

 

The query about D7612, was because someone was disappointed that it wasn't selected for a model, as it was preserved and he'd been hauled by it in 1966. I was just pointing out that with tablet catcher recess it wasn't a run of the mill example.

 

Useless fact of the day is that D7612 now carries 25322 No. 1 cab, found out when we sanded the cab down and found the number

Edited July 7, 2018 by 25901

[Nick G]

Useless fact of the day is that D7612 now carries 25322 No. 1 cab, found out when we sanded the cab down and found the number

 

 

 

So what cab does 25322/25912/7672 have at No.1 end?

[25901]

So what cab does 25322/25912/7672 have at No.1 end?

 

When / ever that loco gets her body work done we may find out but I'm not holding my breath. Cabs were swapped all the time when in works, even off scrappers

 

 

Anyway, back on topic.

If Heljan want to give us a 25/3 then thank you from a least me. Any body who wants to offer us a new model should get all our thanks, 

We can now start the froth about numbers and paint work but I would have liked a blue 25/9 in very weathered finish like the real thing

Edited July 7, 2018 by 25901

[Legend]

If Southern Region Units had been ultra viable then Hornby might have made a profit over the last 5 years, as for the 4CEP, they were giving them away 2 years ago to clear them out. The Bachmann 4CEP was the wrong unit for mass sales & liveries, the 4CIG was the choice for anyone who knows about liveries & units OR the Refurbished 4CEP.

 

Charlie

I think that’s right though the CIG would have been a more logical choice given the restrictions of the CEPs being refurbished relatively early on. I do think the days of models of 4 car emus are passed though , and even three car dmus. Not is it more expensive to make three or four different carriages there is the new need from DCC to have electric couplings between cars to avoid double chipping. Just increases the cost.

 

We are digressing a bit from the thread which is a 25/3 but I think it’s relevant that Heljan have chosen to duplicate an existing model rather than say produce a three car120 or 116

Edited July 7, 2018 by Legend

[wombatofludham]

What's to stop SLW wading in with a new class 25 based on the older body style? They are sufficiently different in detail to the Class 24/1 to get Rat lovers buying one and the 24/1 if it comes out, and then they are not going toe to toe with the Danes. Most buyers of their Class 24 will be in the market for both early and late bodystyle Class 25s and probably in multiple so I can't see any reason to suggest SLW should now abandon all aspiration to release a 25 of some sort.

 

As for the days of the three car dmu coming to an end, I assume that's why Bachmann are launching a brand new 3 car 170 and Class 117 in the next year or so, to prove to the model soothsayers that the received wisdom is correct. Given people have been prepared to pay £400+ for a Blue Pullman and not far off £400 for an APT, and even £400 ish for a contemporary Class 800 then I wouldn't write off units yet. Frankly if Rapido or someone else was to offer a definitive Class 321 or Class 310 for around that money I'd snap them up. Bachmann clearly think the market can stand £300 for the SWT Desiro, and based on the projected pricing for the 158 which is already over £100 per vehicle, probably something in the region of £300 for the new 170 and 117 units.

[Dan Griffin]

First samples have been released, of the secretly developed 25/0.

 

looks ok but I don't think they'll get away with the incorrect numbering!

 

Just Kiddin', Weybourne, NNR 2010

 

   

Edited July 8, 2018 by Dan Griffin

[Enterprisingwestern]

Useless fact of the day is that D7612 now carries 25322 No. 1 cab, found out when we sanded the cab down and found the number

 

Probably not only 25322's cab, more than possible it has resided on a number of loco's as Derby refurbished cabs seperately to the rest of the machine. I remember seeing one with traces of the number starting with a serifed D5 and and a non serifed D7 under the existing number, so they didn't always get stripped right back to bare metal every time.

 

Mike.

[adb968008]

I used to own a blue class 31 flame cut cab side, nothing wrong with that you might think...

Except the class 31’s whose number was on the cab, was still in service and extant today still.

I know it wasn’t dodgy, I bought it at Collectors Corner !

 

It’s wide spread across BR locos.

Edited July 8, 2018 by adb968008

[Swindon 123]

Probably not only 25322's cab, more than possible it has resided on a number of loco's as Derby refurbished cabs seperately to the rest of the machine. I remember seeing one with traces of the number starting with a serifed D5 and and a non serifed D7 under the existing number, so they didn't always get stripped right back to bare metal every time.

 

Mike.

Also the case in this view of 25117, i had the pleasure of working on. The number underneath was not 25117, and there was even traces of a pre-TOPS number.

25117 [uN--021. (A682A)] by Paul James, on Flickr

 

 

Paul J.