HELJAN UNVEILS ‘OO’ GAUGE 25/3 AND ‘ETHEL’ FOR 2019

[sulzer71]

40 minutes ago, w124bob said:

Here is my effort at the alternative letter box exhaust and panelling. A very easy conversion of 25252. I spotted whilst doing this conversion that 25102(TMC limited edition) should have the larger panel as seen in two tone green, however there is a seam running across the roof panel. So this only needs an additional pain plasticard piece adding. 

The exhaust ports/panels have become the bane of my life on 24s and 25s , so many variations

[w124bob]

13 minutes ago, sulzer71 said:

The exhaust ports/panels have become the bane of my life on 24s and 25s , so many variations

I agree, Flickr has proved it's worth more than once. I'm still trying to work away around the sandbox variations. I removed the sand boxes from a couple Baccy class 24's but so far have yet to try replacing the Heljan ones. Two future conversions for the Heljan loco are Tablet catcher recess and a boiler fitted. Boiler water tank from a Baccy loco fouls the bogie on even modest curves, but I'm working on that. Roof detail shouldn't be difficult as I'm using the raised vent from a Baccy cl24/1 (converted to a 25/0 see the baccy 24/1 thread)and a possible boiler exhaust etch for one of the cl47 variations. Watch this space.

[sulzer71]

29 minutes ago, w124bob said:

I agree, Flickr has proved it's worth more than once. I'm still trying to work away around the sandbox variations. I removed the sand boxes from a couple Baccy class 24's but so far have yet to try replacing the Heljan ones. Two future conversions for the Heljan loco are Tablet catcher recess and a boiler fitted. Boiler water tank from a Baccy loco fouls the bogie on even modest curves, but I'm working on that. Roof detail shouldn't be difficult as I'm using the raised vent from a Baccy cl24/1 (converted to a 25/0 see the baccy 24/1 thread)and a possible boiler exhaust etch for one of the cl47 variations. Watch this space.

I only have 24s in the fleet at the moment , some SLW some Baccy , The Baccy 24/1s are being converted to pre-tops tablet catcher fitted ones and I've spent many hours trawling flickr/gleaning info on all the differences between each one I want to model , I've managed to get an assortment of cab roofs from the guy that originally produced them for Brassmasters so I have a winged type one for one end of one I chose to model , he also sent me a fuel tank he had spare , will check when I get home if it's a 24 or 25 style one , you're welcome to it if it's any use to you , he's also looking into 3D printing sandboxes and the different style exhaust ports for me so I will post here if anything comes from it

[w124bob]

Another exhaust port conversion, 7647 carried a unique(?) exhaust mod. When the exhaust ports were modified this loco kept the circular exhaust but in the new position above the engine. I carefully removed the two roof panels, cut the circular exhaust panel  down to size and then reused the various cut down bits to represent the modified exhaust and roof panels. An alternative would be to use plasticard and the circular etch from the Brassmasters class24/25 detail set. More pictures once I've filled the joins and repainted the panels.

 

 

[w124bob]

My version of 7647 is now finished, the only thing I need to do is change the 6 to 0 on one number, some trainspotter wag decided to invent a Derby Hymek! 

 

 

[w124bob]

The next class 25 variation, just a test fit of bits at the moment. Blue boiler vent came from a Bachmann class 24/1(now a 25/0), etch part is from A1 Models and is part of their class 47 boiler and planking plate set(sold via their Ebay page). The water tank will come from an old Baccy class 25, this needs to be widened by about 3mm but shortened by about 2mm to prevent fouling the bogie and limiting the pivot. A Brassmasters one might be an alternative, the five boiler locos in this batch had yet another variation on the exhaust if anyone is looking at a blue variant.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by w124bob
resized picture

[w124bob]

The steam heat project has now been abandoned, big compromise on the boiler water tank and news from Barwell make it not worth while. Tablet catcher version will be done. 

[w124bob]

Well it's been a while but the tablet recess project is now done, here are the pictures. Size of the recess was an estimation based a good image on Derby Sulzers of 7612 in Derby works.

 

[Phil Bullock]

Nice one Bob! Same loco, different starting point 

 

 

Who will be first to do the same to an SLW one? 
 

Phil

[Covkid]

22 hours ago, w124bob said:

Well it's been a while but the tablet recess project is now done, here are the pictures. Size of the recess was an estimation based a good image on Derby Sulzers of 7612 in Derby works.

 

 

Ironically, I believe the preserved 7612 has had an imitation tablet catcher recess let into at least one side.

[w124bob]

2 minutes ago, Covkid said:

 

Ironically, I believe the preserved 7612 has had an imitation tablet catcher recess let into at least one side.

If the work done at Derby is similar to class 20's, the recess was never removed just plated on the outside.

[Ray M]

Like this.

[TheEngineShed]

So what has put me off ordering a Heljan Class 25 is the lack of the diagonal structural framing behind the radiator grill.    I haven't actually seen a Heljan 25 in the flesh, but the photos on-line don't show anything but a plain etched grill.

 

Has anyone had any luck at replicating the diagonals on the model?  I would think some plasticard behind the grill would correct this, but it doesn't appear anyone has tried this.

[meatloaf]

Im a bit late to the party but the 15% off sale TMC recently had saw me aquire a TMC exclusive 2 tone green with tops numbers. 

 

Cost me about £106 with the discount off.

 

Nice looking loco. Runs nice with an AE Models decoder installed. Had to reverse direction using CV29 as forward seemed to be no2 end first.

 

No issues with the headcode blinds or anything.

 

The only thing i wish Heljan wouldnt do is fit all the detailling to both ends. Looks good but ive had to remove it from one end to fit the coupling.

 

But overall a really nice model.

[25901]

On 24/05/2022 at 21:18, Covkid said:

 

Ironically, I believe the preserved 7612 has had an imitation tablet catcher recess let into at least one side.

Imitation yes due to her not having her original cabs plus recess not full size due to brake equipment in the way

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, 25901 said:

 plus recess not full size due to brake equipment in the way

 

I wondered if there was a technical reason for 7612's clearly undersized recesses - thanks for the explanation! 🙂

[Covkid]

On 16/09/2022 at 23:14, 25901 said:

Imitation yes due to her not having her original cabs plus recess not full size due to brake equipment in the way

 

On 17/09/2022 at 00:51, Halvarras said:

 

I wondered if there was a technical reason for 7612's clearly undersized recesses - thanks for the explanation! 🙂

 

I had wondered about preserved 25262's aperture. The extra brake valve pipework under the drivers desk were obviously not there back in the early 1960s. 

 

Thanks for that "25901"

[25901]

10 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

 

I had wondered about preserved 25262's aperture. The extra brake valve pipework under the drivers desk were obviously not there back in the early 1960s. 

25262 was to my understanding was built dual braked and it's just that the replacement cabs she got fitted with where built without the recess. There's a lot of equipment placement changes in the recess fitted cabs just not only brake controllers. AWS, cab heaters and electrical ducting play their part too.

Which 25s that were built dual braked and not is a bit of a quiz but I have seen plenty of pics showing recess fitted cabs that were dual braked including 25262 in 1976.

The differences between 25s is massive and no two saved 25s are the same not just outside but also inside too.

Now down to the experts (I've only co-owned two lol)

Edited September 18, 2022 by 25901

[Covkid]

6 hours ago, 25901 said:

25262 was to my understanding was built dual braked and it's just that the replacement cabs she got fitted with where built without the recess. There's a lot of equipment placement changes in the recess fitted cabs just not only brake controllers. AWS, cab heaters and electrical ducting play their part too.

Which 25s that were built dual braked and not is a bit of a quiz but I have seen plenty of pics showing recess fitted cabs that were dual braked including 25262 in 1976.

The differences between 25s is massive and no two saved 25s are the same not jusy outside but also inside too.

Now down to the experts (I've only co-owned two lol)

 

OK Robin.

I will stop digging and am putting my spade down now !!!!!

 

Thanks very much.

[w124bob]

I'm pretty sure no class 25's had dual brakes from new simply because of the image of the final loco, D7677 ex works cover picture for the Derby  works open day programme on the Derby Sulzer site, vacuum only. There were some early conversions with loco's still wearing as built SYE livery. D7647 almost making it into TOPS in that condition. I've trawled Flickr for images of every Heljan body style class 25 as well as using the Derby Sulzer site.

 On a different note is there another run production due?

[stovepipe]

I believe there were a handful of 25s built with dual brakes, but not the last very last ones for some reason. The DB ones were D7660-7669 (25310-319) and possibly D7674 (25324) too. It is on the Derby Sulzers website.

[robertcwp]

On 28/09/2022 at 22:38, stovepipe said:

I believe there were a handful of 25s built with dual brakes, but not the last very last ones for some reason. The DB ones were D7660-7669 (25310-319) and possibly D7674 (25324) too. It is on the Derby Sulzers website.

I think the final two from Beyer Peacock also had air brakes from new. D7658-9. They were green with small yellow panels when new.

[matchmaker]

On 28/09/2022 at 22:38, stovepipe said:

I believe there were a handful of 25s built with dual brakes, but not the last very last ones for some reason. The DB ones were D7660-7669 (25310-319) and possibly D7674 (25324) too. It is on the Derby Sulzers website.

According to my 1971 Ian Allan Combined Volume none of 7660-7669 were dual braked. Neither was 7674, although 7675 was. I'm not sure how accurate this is, though.

[stovepipe]

I have my doubts about the accuracy of Ian Allan's volume on this subject at this time. There is a BR document on Barrowmore MRG's website - MT25 Main Line Diesel locos, dated March 1973, which lists 7660-7669, and 7674 as Diagram No. DE/2000/12, which translates as dual braked locos. 7675 is listed as DE/2000/11 - a regular vacuum braked example.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by stovepipe
typo

[Halvarras]

9 hours ago, stovepipe said:

I have my doubts about the accuracy of Ian Allan's volume on this subject at this time. There is a BR document on Barrowmore MRG's website - MT25 Main Line Diesel locos, dated March 1973, which lists 7660-7669, and 7674 as Diagram No. DE/2000/12, which translates as dual braked locos. 7675 is listed as DE/2000/11 - a regular vacuum braked example.

 

 

 

You're right to have doubts, I looked into this a while back myself and found that, although they had Classes 37 & 47 about right, the Class 25s were inaccurate. D7660-9 would appear to have been dual-braked from new for Euston ECS duties. Others were added, I photographed D7659 still in GSYP livery at Willesden depot in October 1973, clearly dual-braked. On the other hand a photo of 7675 at Penzance in 1973 (by then in standard blue with central logo) and my own shot of 25327 (ex-7677) passing St Austell on the clays in 1974 show vac-only.

The Class 25s sent to the WR to replace the Class 22s in 1970-72, especially those from the LMR, were not exactly in tip-top mechanical condition and were quickly put through Derby Works, but none of them emerged dual-braked, even 25223/5 overhauled in 1976 - I assume that the WR had no need for air-braked Class 25s so declined to pay for the installation. This condemned many of them to an early grave when the WR have up its remaining allocation in autumn 1980. This is not to say that the WR never had any dual-braked 25s, at least 25048 obtained post-1976 was so fitted but it's unlikely the equipment saw much if any use during their time on the Region.