Another Low-Risk RTR Conversion (but this time it's not even a prototype yet)

[TangoOscarMike]

This is not a prototype, it is more of a sketch. It's the 3D printed equivalent of a doodle in the margin of a notebook.

 

I was going to keep this under my hat and develop it a bit further. But my last post was extremely fruitful, in terms of top-quality constructive criticism, so I'm going to prevail upon your kindness again and ask for feedback.

 

When I was... however old I was back then... I would hold my goods vans alongside my 4 wheel Hornby coaches. And I thought then (and I think now) that it would be nice to have a 2-compartment short-wheelbase coach. It might not be prototypical, but perhaps it could add a pleasing narrow-gauge feel to a 00 layout.

 

Here it is, alongside the inspiration (the 4 wheel coach and the pork van) and an example of the wagon that donated the chassis. In addition to the coach body there is a step board, although it's a little hard to see in this picture.

 

 

I would be grateful for any comments, but I also have a couple of specific questions:

 

1) Copying the style of the Hornby 4 wheel coach, I have used a raised beading to make painting the panels and the lining easier. Is this catastrophically unrealistic?

 

2) This particular type of wagon is useful because it is held together by two screws, so it is very easy to make the conversion (and very easy to put it back the way it was). But the chassis looks a little small, and the buffers are somewhat lower than those of my other Hornby rolling stock. Can anyone comment on this?

 

 

Thanks in advance!

Tom

 

[Ian Smeeton]

Larger Wheels?

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Gibbo675]

 

This is not a prototype, it is more of a sketch. It's the 3D printed equivalent of a doodle in the margin of a notebook.

 

I was going to keep this under my hat and develop it a bit further. But my last post was extremely fruitful, in terms of top-quality constructive criticism, so I'm going to prevail upon your kindness again and ask for feedback.

 

When I was... however old I was back then... I would hold my goods vans alongside my 4 wheel Hornby coaches. And I thought then (and I think now) that it would be nice to have a 2-compartment short-wheelbase coach. It might not be prototypical, but perhaps it could add a pleasing narrow-gauge feel to a 00 layout.

 

Here it is, alongside the inspiration (the 4 wheel coach and the pork van) and an example of the wagon that donated the chassis. In addition to the coach body there is a step board, although it's a little hard to see in this picture.

 

small_coach_body_on_wagon_chassis.png

 

I would be grateful for any comments, but I also have a couple of specific questions:

 

1) Copying the style of the Hornby 4 wheel coach, I have used a raised beading to make painting the panels and the lining easier. Is this catastrophically unrealistic?

 

2) This particular type of wagon is useful because it is held together by two screws, so it is very easy to make the conversion (and very easy to put it back the way it was). But the chassis looks a little small, and the buffers are somewhat lower than those of my other Hornby rolling stock. Can anyone comment on this?

 

 

Thanks in advance!

Tom

 

Hi Tom,

 

I like it, quite well proportioned with the reduced height of the body compared with the Hornby coach. The Hornby coach always looked a little too tall somehow. Are the coach ends match boarded as that is the kind of thing that makes the job look right.

 

Have a look at these contraptions, not that I'm suggesting you should rip them off at all;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/North-Eastern-Railway-P1-Chaldron-Wagon-Kit-Smallbrook-Studio-free-post/273022285934?hash=item3f9165786e:g:CnEAAOSwjVVVn7TK

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Primitive-Open-Wagon-resin-kit-Smallbrook-Studio-free-post/282806891493?hash=item41d89ab3e5:g:pZoAAOSwDNdVoByo

 

Gibbo.

[TangoOscarMike]

Larger Wheels?

 

Regards

 

Ian

That hadn't entered my head. It might not work out, because the clearance under the chassis is a little tight. It also goes against the idea of an extremely simple conversion. Nevertheless, I shall go in search of bigger wheels and give it a try.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. 

[TangoOscarMike]

Hi Tom,

 

I like it, quite well proportioned with the reduced height of the body compared with the Hornby coach. The Hornby coach always looked a little too tall somehow. Are the coach ends match boarded as that is the kind of thing that makes the job look right.

Yup. I've seen it mentioned in several places that the Hornby coach is a little tall, so I used on of the Ratio 4-wheelers as a guideline.

 

Have a look at these contraptions, not that I'm suggesting you should rip them off at all;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/North-Eastern-Railway-P1-Chaldron-Wagon-Kit-Smallbrook-Studio-free-post/273022285934?hash=item3f9165786e:g:CnEAAOSwjVVVn7TK

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Primitive-Open-Wagon-resin-kit-Smallbrook-Studio-free-post/282806891493?hash=item41d89ab3e5:g:pZoAAOSwDNdVoByo

Oh, I like those a lot. I think I might delve into my pockets and buy one or both.

 

It gives me hope that (although my coach doesn't represent a real prototype), there is probably something from the middle of the 19th century that roughly matches, in terms of general proportions. After all, this is true for the Hornby 4-wheeler itself.

[BernardTPM]

The 4-wheel coach dates from 1976 and was based on the Tri-ang derived long brake van chassis that was first made (in metal) in the mid '50s. In common with most Tri-ang of that era the buffer height was too high, ostensibly to allow clearance under the front bufferbeams for the front bogies of steam locos room to rise into the standard gradient used for the inclines and bridges. The chassis was redesigned in plastic in the early 1960s, still with the high buffers* and was still current when the 4-wheeler appeared. Later versions were in a more flexible plastic rather than styrene and had the coupler bars as part of the moulding, like the GWR one you have. If you want a matching high chassis then later versions of R.16 E.R. and the later R.215 N.E. brake van had a plastic chassis with high buffers which would match the Hornby coach. This was also used under the 1970s GWR shunter's wagon R.028/R.208.

 

Regarding the height of the Hornby coach body; there's a recessed area above the panelled side and below the roof about 1mm deep that seems completely superfluous and could be removed without spoiling the painting, though it would require the windows (integral with the roof) to be removed and adjusted too.

 

 

* The earlier, shorter wagons that had been derived from that used under the original Trackmaster range absorbed into Tri-ang Railways in the early 1950s had correct height buffers when metal, but their 1960s plastic replacements had high buffers.

[TangoOscarMike]

The 4-wheel coach dates from 1976 and was based on the Tri-ang derived long brake van chassis that was first made (in metal) in the mid '50s. In common with most Tri-ang of that era the buffer height was too high, ostensibly to allow clearance under the front bufferbeams for the front bogies of steam locos room to rise into the standard gradient used for the inclines and bridges. The chassis was redesigned in plastic in the early 1960s, still with the high buffers* and was still current when the 4-wheeler appeared. Later versions were in a more flexible plastic rather than styrene and had the coupler bars as part of the moulding, like the GWR one you have. If you want a matching high chassis then later versions of R.16 E.R. and the later R.215 N.E. brake van had a plastic chassis with high buffers which would match the Hornby coach. This was also used under the 1970s GWR shunter's wagon R.028/R.208.

 

Thanks for all that detail Bernard. The Brake vans are appealing because they already have a step board, so that simplifies the conversion.

 

My intention is to provide a straightforward conversion for readily-available R-T-R rolling stock. It might therefore be best to provide a few different versions for a few different chassis designs. I should also consider things from other manufactures, such as the various Dapol wagon chassis, which are available on their own.

 

Regards

Tom

[LNWR18901910]

On 05/07/2018 at 23:03, TangoOscarMike said:

This is not a prototype, it is more of a sketch. It's the 3D printed equivalent of a doodle in the margin of a notebook.

 

 

 

I was going to keep this under my hat and develop it a bit further. But my last post was extremely fruitful, in terms of top-quality constructive criticism, so I'm going to prevail upon your kindness again and ask for feedback.

 

 

 

When I was... however old I was back then... I would hold my goods vans alongside my 4 wheel Hornby coaches. And I thought then (and I think now) that it would be nice to have a 2-compartment short-wheelbase coach. It might not be prototypical, but perhaps it could add a pleasing narrow-gauge feel to a 00 layout.

 

 

 

Here it is, alongside the inspiration (the 4 wheel coach and the pork van) and an example of the wagon that donated the chassis. In addition to the coach body there is a step board, although it's a little hard to see in this picture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would be grateful for any comments, but I also have a couple of specific questions:

 

 

 

1) Copying the style of the Hornby 4 wheel coach, I have used a raised beading to make painting the panels and the lining easier. Is this catastrophically unrealistic?

 

 

 

2) This particular type of wagon is useful because it is held together by two screws, so it is very easy to make the conversion (and very easy to put it back the way it was). But the chassis looks a little small, and the buffers are somewhat lower than those of my other Hornby rolling stock. Can anyone comment on this?

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Tom

 

 

Very creative, I'd say. It looks like a luggage van.

[Tiptonian]

For what it is worth, here are my personal views.

Unless one is thinking very early, (e.g., "Rocket" coaches), 4-wheel coaches were usually 4- or 5-compartments. The Hornby coach has 3 very luxurious 7' long compartments! A more common compartment length would have been 5' 6", and Hornby could have put 4 of these compartments in the same coach length. The other striking thing is the high arc of the roof. This would look better if it was more shallow, more like a wagon roof, which you have acknowledged with your very short coach. As others have said, the Hornby coach is aIso too high in the body.

 

Initially, as you want simple kits, I would suggest using the envelope of the Triang type cattle wagon body as a basis for a 4-compartment coach, using the same roof profile as the cattle wagon. This should fit the Hornby coach chassis, the BR and  GWR brake van chassis, the cattle wagon chassis, and possibly others too. With the cattle wagon chassis, you would have to provide running boards, but they could be made narrower than those of the Hornby originals so as to minimize the bulk of the Triang/Hornby type chassis.

 

The result would, I feel, be different enough from the Hornby coach to be worthwhile, and certainly a little more realistic. Something like this....

http://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/images/news/CIMG0780B.JPG

 

Good Luck!

Edited November 18, 2019 by Tiptonian
i)Trying to get better picture, ii)Rubbish computer skills.

[TangoOscarMike]

On 18/11/2019 at 22:30, Tiptonian said:

For what it is worth, here are my personal views.

Unless one is thinking very early, (e.g., "Rocket" coaches), 4-wheel coaches were usually 4- or 5-compartments. The Hornby coach has 3 very luxurious 7' long compartments! A more common compartment length would have been 5' 6", and Hornby could have put 4 of these compartments in the same coach length. The other striking thing is the high arc of the roof. This would look better if it was more shallow, more like a wagon roof, which you have acknowledged with your very short coach. As others have said, the Hornby coach is aIso too high in the body.

 

Initially, as you want simple kits, I would suggest using the envelope of the Triang type cattle wagon body as a basis for a 4-compartment coach, using the same roof profile as the cattle wagon. This should fit the Hornby coach chassis, the BR and  GWR brake van chassis, the cattle wagon chassis, and possibly others too. With the cattle wagon chassis, you would have to provide running boards, but they could be made narrower than those of the Hornby originals so as to minimize the bulk of the Triang/Hornby type chassis.

 

The result would, I feel, be different enough from the Hornby coach to be worthwhile, and certainly a little more realistic. Something like this....

http://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/images/news/CIMG0780B.JPG

 

Good Luck!

 

Thanks Tiptonian - I've only just noticed your reply (maybe I should pay more attention to my own threads).

 

I didn't get any takers for the low-resolution "white strong and flexible" prints. Now, after a hiatus, I'm going to revisit this project and make a 3-compartment version for the Dapol 10' wagon chassis. I think this will produce 5'10" compartments, which are more in line with what you have said.

 

The length, width and number of compartments are all adjustable parameters in my design, so in principle I can adapt it to any chassis. The devil is in the details, specifically (a) the attachment to the chassis and (b) the running boards.

 

I also plan to do my next experiment with a higher resolution print, and to take advantage of that I must first refine the details somewhat.

 

Above all, thank you for bringing the Vintage Carriage Trust to my attention!