Warren Branch

[Nick C]

You'll want more levers in the frame though, to control the signals...

 

I'm sure the GW experts will correct me, but I'd expect something like this - left to right from the signalman's perspective:

 

1. Outer home (off stage - experts, would the GW have had outers/advanced at a small station like this?)

2. Inner home to platform

3. Inner home to loop (I think the GW used shorter arms for goods signals?)

4. Shunt signal at inner home (to allow the engine back onto it's train)

5. FPL on 6

6. Loop points

7. loco release points

8. Shunt signal at loco release

9. Advanced starter (see comment on 1)

10. Starter

11. Loop starter (see comment on 3 - might just be a shunt signal)

 

Signals all red levers, FPL blue, points black.

[5BarVT]

11 minutes ago, Nick C said:

You'll want more levers in the frame though, to control the signals...

 

I'm sure the GW experts will correct me, but I'd expect something like this - left to right from the signalman's perspective:

 

1. Outer home (off stage - experts, would the GW have had outers/advanced at a small station like this?)

2. Inner home to platform

3. Inner home to loop (I think the GW used shorter arms for goods signals?)

4. Shunt signal at inner home (to allow the engine back onto it's train)

5. FPL on 6

6. Loop points

7. loco release points

8. Shunt signal at loco release

9. Advanced starter (see comment on 1)

10. Starter

11. Loop starter (see comment on 3 - might just be a shunt signal)

 

Signals all red levers, FPL blue, points black.

If signalled, much as above (think you can omit 1).

OR

If it’s only one train at a time, then treat it as a ground frame so no signals. All levers released by the train staff.

And a small ground level cover as you intend is much more in keeping with a ground frame.

Paul.

[Nick C]

1 minute ago, 5BarVT said:

If it’s only one train at a time, then treat it as a ground frame so no signals. All levers released by the train staff.

 

Except that Chris has already done a very nice job of bedding the starter into the platform ramp!

[chuffinghell]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

You'll want more levers in the frame though, to control the signals...

 

I'm sure the GW experts will correct me, but I'd expect something like this - left to right from the signalman's perspective:

 

1. Outer home (off stage - experts, would the GW have had outers/advanced at a small station like this?)

2. Inner home to platform

3. Inner home to loop (I think the GW used shorter arms for goods signals?)

4. Shunt signal at inner home (to allow the engine back onto it's train)

5. FPL on 6

6. Loop points

7. loco release points

8. Shunt signal at loco release

9. Advanced starter (see comment on 1)

10. Starter

11. Loop starter (see comment on 3 - might just be a shunt signal)

 

Signals all red levers, FPL blue, points 

Thank you

 

I'm planning on doing this:-

 

My plan was to cut up the ground frames and have six levers but I’d forgotten about the two ground singles or the ‘off stage’ signal, I might need to get a larger signal box

 

@Harlequin has already been kind enough to advise me that the home signal ‘3’ and ground signal ‘4’ need to be swapped so they read left to right so I’m aware of this, I’ve just not modified the drawing

 

However I believe being pre 1960’s the ground signal ‘4’ could be left off?....I need some clarification on this to be honest

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by chuffinghell

[chuffinghell]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

If signalled, much as above (think you can omit 1).

OR

If it’s only one train at a time, then treat it as a ground frame so no signals. All levers released by the train staff.

And a small ground level cover as you intend is much more in keeping with a ground frame.

Paul.

 

The lever frame was just placed on, I intended to cut them up and just use the levers and glue a bank of them together

 

If I can omit 1 it would make life easier as the kit has a pair of four levers I can put together

 

Perhaps I need to get a larger signal box, it’s a shame because I like the wills one

[Nick C]

That looks good - As I say, I'm not an expert on GW Practice, but I think you'll at least need an advanced starter, which would be off-stage. The Southern would have used the ground signal you've labelled 4 for both movements to the main platform (i.e. run-rounds) and to the loop, but I don't know if the GW was the same - the diagram from Staines suggests it was:

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwa/S106.htm

 

In which case you can cut down my list to:

 

1. Home

2. Shunt signal at home

3. FPL on 4

4. Loop points

5. Loco release points

6. Shunt signal at loco release

7. Loop shunt signal

8. Advanced starter (off-stage)

9. Starter

[Harlequin]

Think Moretonhampstead...

 

[chuffinghell]

6 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Think Moretonhampstead...

 

its all very confusing, I thought I’d got it figured out

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, chuffinghell said:

its all very confusing, I thought I’d got it figured out

Chris, just remind us of the complete track plan please.

[Gypsy]

For what its worth I think you should stick with the Wills box - it looks 'right' to my untrained eye.

[Nick C]

10 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

its all very confusing, I thought I’d got it figured out

 

The bottom of the two diagrams here: https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwe/S906.htm

 

Ignoring shunt 6 and crossover 8, and I'd also ignore shunt-ahead 3 (just assume your advanced starter is further out so there's enough room to shunt without passing it), and you've got pretty much as you drew above.

[Nick C]

And yeah, stick with the Wills 'box, a 9-lever knee frame, token machine and a desk for the register would fit neatly in there.

[chuffinghell]

34 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Chris, just remind us of the complete track plan please.

 

I have to confess that being dyslexic I find visual instruction easier than written ones

That’s why @Harlequin helps me enormously because his drawings are are work of art and to me drawings are easier for me to digest, I wouldn’t want anyone to think it was because I’m stupid (debatable )

[St Enodoc]

6 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

 

I have to confess that being dyslexic I find visual instruction easier than written ones

That’s why @Harlequin helps me enormously because his drawings are are work of art and to me drawings are easier for me to digest, I wouldn’t want anyone to think it was because I’m stupid (debatable )

OK, combining my own thoughts with what Harlequin, Nick C and 5BarVT have suggested:

 

1. Home signal.

2. FPL on right, where you've labelled it.

3. Crossover points outside signal box - both points on one lever.

4. Disc at foot of home signal - applies only to loop. Home signal can be used for shunting into platform.

5. Crossover points at far end - both points on one lever.

6. Disc at far end for loco release.

7. Disc to exit loop.

8. Platform starting signal.

 

I wouldn't worry about an advanced starter, as a) it won't exist in reality and b) with the signal box right by the starter the bobby could authorise a shunt on to the single line (I won't go into detail as it doesn't matter for the model).

 

There are your 8 levers.

 

[Nick C]

5 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

4. Disc at foot of home signal - applies only to loop. Home signal can be used for shunting into platform.

 

Not so - clearing a stop signal implies that the line is clear to the next stop signal (or in this case, the buffer stops). If the stock is already in the platform, that's not the case - so you'd have to use a shunt signal (or a verbal instruction...)

[St Enodoc]

13 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

Not so - clearing a stop signal implies that the line is clear to the next stop signal (or in this case, the buffer stops). If the stock is already in the platform, that's not the case - so you'd have to use a shunt signal (or a verbal instruction...)

A verbal instruction to proceed only as far as the line is clear would suffice with the signal and the box being so close together - but this is getting too deep for Chris' model.

Edited May 1, 2020 by St Enodoc

[chuffinghell]

26 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

OK, combining my own thoughts with what Harlequin, Nick C and 5BarVT have suggested:

 

1. Home signal.

2. FPL on right, where you've labelled it.

3. Crossover points outside signal box - both points on one lever.

4. Disc at foot of home signal - applies only to loop. Home signal can be used for shunting into platform.

5. Crossover points at far end - both points on one lever.

6. Disc at far end for loco release.

7. Disc to exit loop.

8. Platform starting signal.

 

I wouldn't worry about an advanced starter, as a) it won't exist in reality and b) with the signal box right by the starter the bobby could authorise a shunt on to the single line (I won't go into detail as it doesn't matter for the model).

 

There are your 8 levers.

 

 

Thank you for your help

The crossover points at the signal box have a rod each could they still be operated by one lever? (i.e linked at the single box

 

5 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

A verbal instruction to proceed only as far as the line is clear would suffice with the signal and the box being so close together - but this is getting too deep for Chris' model.

 

That sounds good to me, as long as it gives the right impression and is plausible/looks feasible that’s good enough for me
 

And thanks to @Nick C for you help too

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, chuffinghell said:

The crossover points at the signal box have a rod each could they still be operated by one lever? (i.e linked at the single box

Not only could but should.

[chuffinghell]

12 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Not only could but should.

Phew!!! For a moment I thought I’d got to redo the rods.....again

 

so this is correct?

 

Apologies to all for what may appear to be stupid questions, signalling has always been something that has confused me....hopefully I’m not the only one

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by chuffinghell

[chuffinghell]

3 hours ago, Nick C said:

 

Except that Chris has already done a very nice job of bedding the starter into the platform ramp!

Thank you, very good of you to say, I must admit I am quite proud how the signal on the ramp turned out

[Nick C]

34 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

Apologies to all for what may appear to be stupid questions, signalling has always been something that has confused me....hopefully I’m not the only one

 

They're not stupid questions. I've spent quite a lot of time over the last couple of years learning this stuff (I'm a trainee heritage railway signalman), it's good to have the opportunity to pass some of it on. If you'd like to learn more I can recommend a couple of good books on the subject.

[chuffinghell]

7 minutes ago, Nick C said:

I’m a trainee heritage railway signalman

 

Cool! any particular heritage railway?

 

8 minutes ago, Nick C said:

If you'd like to learn more I can recommend a couple of good books on the subject.

If you could recommend one that has lots of diagrams and drawings that would be perfect thank you

[Nick C]

3 minutes ago, chuffinghell said:

 

Cool! any particular heritage railway?

 

If you could recommend one that has lots of diagrams and drawings that would be perfect thank you

The Mid-Hants. I was hoping to have qualified by now, but Covid-19 has put that on hold...

 

The best is probably "British Railway Signalling" by Kitchenside & Williams (Ian Allan) - lots of text I'm afraid, but a lot of diagrams and photos too. "A Pictorial Record of Great Western signalling" (Vaughan, OPC) is probably worth a look too (I've not got it, but the sister Southern volume is certainly very good).

 

Red for Danger (LTC Rolt) is also a fascinating read (a history of railway accidents), but sadly doesn't have any diagrams at all, at least not the edition I've got.

 

https://signalbox.org/ covers a lot of the basics quite well with lots of pictures and diagrams, but seems to be down as I type this.

[chuffinghell]

I’ve found this photo showing a ground signal behind the semaphore signal almost in line with it

 

Could I do the same?

 

 

 

[Bogie]

You are way braver than me attempting point rodding and signalling.  I know it adds to the realism but some of us just know our limitations.

 

That's why I am cheering for you on the sidelines!!

 

Go you good thing!!!