MrWolf Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Outstanding. I don't see what all the fuss was about... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2020 11 hours ago, chuffinghell said: My intention is to make it appear that the track exits the tunnel straight, however due to space (or lack there of) I’ve had to compromise. example: If the tunnel mouth is too far back it becomes clear that the line curves on entering/exiting the tunnel Moving the tunnel mouth four inches towards the black line lessens this effect However I cannot move the tunnel mouth any further away from the curve otherwise my longest loco would enter the tunnel on the runaround loop Only just fits I've lost track (pun intended) here. Is that the 4th radius curve or the 2nd radius? If it's the 2nd, I agree that there's not much else you can do but if it's the 4th, then going back to the 2nd will give you a bit more straight track to play with. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNP Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 I think what you need to do is take a step back and imagine what the area looked like before the railway arrived. On my own layout I designed the scenery first and then pushed a railway through it. Remember tunnels where expensive things to construct and where normally only done as a last resort, cuttings where used wherever possible, or even the route changed to miss some problem or other. Have you considered a wooded cutting using the curve as part of the seen layout disappearing under a road bridge (for example) as the view blocker. 3 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chuffinghell Posted September 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2020 6 hours ago, St Enodoc said: I've lost track (pun intended) here. Is that the 4th radius curve or the 2nd radius? If it's the 2nd, I agree that there's not much else you can do but if it's the 4th, then going back to the 2nd will give you a bit more straight track to play with. It’s the 2nd radius in the photo so that’s the best I could do 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chuffinghell Posted September 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, KNP said: I think what you need to do is take a step back and imagine what the area looked like before the railway arrived. On my own layout I designed the scenery first and then pushed a railway through it. Remember tunnels where expensive things to construct and where normally only done as a last resort, cuttings where used wherever possible, or even the route changed to miss some problem or other. Have you considered a wooded cutting using the curve as part of the seen layout disappearing under a road bridge (for example) as the view blocker. I admit that beyond this.... .... I’m a bit stuck Edited September 19, 2020 by chuffinghell 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MAP66 Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) trees.docx Maybe adding a small copse (consisting of fairly tall trees) leading up to the tunnel would mask the view enough to help disguise that the track was on the curve on entering thetrees.docx tunnel? Might only need 2 or 3 larger trees placed strategically in line of sight of the curve. I stole your diagram and placed some silly trees on it to try and explain, thats the limit of my draughtsman ability Mark. Edited September 19, 2020 by MAP66 Oops, diagram didn't upload. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNP Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Chris What I am thinking about is on these lines. I've done a quick sketch to show my line of thought, not the definitive answer but you never know it might provide the spark to get that old brain box thinking... The track is concealed from view and just disappears behind the tree lined cutting, here I would use some large trees to get the effect. The area now looks like a wooded hill that the railway has cut through at a lower level and the road bridge providing the view blocker as the train heads off into the distance. As a plus you now have a vehicular entrance to the goods yard. Remember.... From little seeds mighty oaks do grow. From this little sketch the mighty answer might evolve! 8 2 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) I must admit that I thought about trees atop a deep cutting, but I didn't want to overwhelm you with ideas. Making trees is work, but enjoyable if you have a batch product. As the cutting on the inside of the curve is unseen once you are halfway round, that side could be almost vertical. I felt a scribble coming on, but KNP has beat me to it! Edited September 19, 2020 by MrWolf 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Nice sketch by the way Kevin, it looks very believable. In fact, it puts me very much in mind of the bridge and entrance to the yard at Kinnerley on the Shropshire & Montgomeryshire Railway. (Minus tin sheds and wreckage of course!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, KNP said: Chris What I am thinking about is on these lines. I've done a quick sketch to show my line of thought, not the definitive answer but you never know it might provide the spark to get that old brain box thinking... The track is concealed from view and just disappears behind the tree lined cutting, here I would use some large trees to get the effect. The area now looks like a wooded hill that the railway has cut through at a lower level and the road bridge providing the view blocker as the train heads off into the distance. As a plus you now have a vehicular entrance to the goods yard. Remember.... From little seeds mighty oaks do grow. From this little sketch the mighty answer might evolve! I think that would have to be, at least partly, a rock-sided cutting for two reasons: Banks take up a lot of space and in the real world they were kept clear of trees. You could possibly also attempt the neat visual trick of continuing the cutting towards the backscene so that the line of the track appears to be straighter than it really is. Maybe put some dummy track in the bottom! (But you then need to disguise the junction of the cutting with the backscene somehow.) 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) Good point Harlequin, vertical rock cuttings aren't all that rare on UK branchlines. Two very deep ones spring to mind where the MR and LDECR lines ran through Clowne and Cresswell in Derbyshire. Edited September 19, 2020 by MrWolf Stupid autocorrect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chuffinghell Posted September 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2020 I’ll have to give it more thought because it’s a long way from what I originally had in mind 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chuffinghell Posted September 19, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2020 I admit that I’m not keen on having visible curves but only because the radius I’m stuck with is too sharp to be realistic looking A friend is sorting me out some kingspan off cuts so I can at least have a ‘play’ 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNP Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, chuffinghell said: I admit that I’m not keen on having visible curves but only because the radius I’m stuck with is too sharp to be realistic looking A friend is sorting me out some kingspan off cuts so I can at least have a ‘play’ True, but think about it from the photographic angle. Camera set up at track level at the station looking down the line and it curves off to the right and just disappears. At roof level over the goods shed the train will just vanish from view. We always look at our model railways from an aerial perspective, bend zee knees and look at it from say first floor window height - whole different viewpoint. 2 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 38 minutes ago, KNP said: True, but think about it from the photographic angle. Camera set up at track level at the station looking down the line and it curves off to the right and just disappears. At roof level over the goods shed the train will just vanish from view. We always look at our model railways from an aerial perspective, bend zee knees and look at it from say first floor window height - whole different viewpoint. Well said, I built mine 48" off the floor so that whilst I can get at it to work on it (it's only 24" wide) when it's finished, I can run and view it from a chair. The other, equally important reason is that the room is long and narrow and we don't have much storage space, so I built underneath it and whilst it isn't exactly a subtle feature it is useful. I played it smart and gave someone important 80% of the space for her musical instruments, books and clothing overflow. Brownie points ensured! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold simonmcp Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2020 Check out Pendon, their mainline in the Vale Scene uses a similar trick that makes it look like the line gently curves one way when in fact it sharply curves the other way. I still believed it even when I was staring at it and knew about it. To help the illusion make the line of trees on either side of the steep sided cutting go in a straight line or gentle curve. If necessary make the actual line go under the trees, another layout, Swiss, called I think Rapperswill, used the trick of a hollow coach and engine shed to hide the true path of the line. I have complete confidence in your ability to come up with a brilliant solution as you have to every other challenge you have set yourself. 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Just my two penneth, I think Kevin's idea would be what I would go for. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chuffinghell Posted September 20, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) On 19/09/2020 at 11:29, KNP said: Chris What I am thinking about is on these lines. I've done a quick sketch to show my line of thought, not the definitive answer but you never know it might provide the spark to get that old brain box thinking... The track is concealed from view and just disappears behind the tree lined cutting, here I would use some large trees to get the effect. The area now looks like a wooded hill that the railway has cut through at a lower level and the road bridge providing the view blocker as the train heads off into the distance. As a plus you now have a vehicular entrance to the goods yard. Remember.... From little seeds mighty oaks do grow. From this little sketch the mighty answer might evolve! What about something like this as a variation on a theme? Gives access to the goods yard from both over the canal and over the rail or a straight through run for non goods vehicles? Still hides the hideously tight radius curves and hopefully gives the impression of the track exiting Warren in a straight run of track.....through the wall and into my next door neighbours dining room Edited September 20, 2020 by chuffinghell 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponthir28 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) What ever you do it’s a bit of a compromise as model railway nearly always are. But please carry on as your work is inspiring. Edited September 20, 2020 by Ponthir28 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Alister_G Posted September 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2020 5 hours ago, chuffinghell said: What about something like this as a variation on a theme? I like that. I think it looks good and achieves what you wanted. Al. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 6 hours ago, chuffinghell said: What about something like this as a variation on a theme? Gives access to the goods yard from both over the canal and over the rail or a straight through run for non goods vehicles? Still hides the hideously tight radius curves and hopefully gives the impression of the track exiting Warren in a straight run of track.....through the wall and into my next door neighbours dining room Like it 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted September 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2020 Last one looks good, keep it simple! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chuffinghell Posted September 20, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, sjrixon said: Last one looks good, keep it simple! Just a matter of trying to make it a reality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, chuffinghell said: Just a matter of trying to make it a reality I find that a little bit of "Task appropriate profanity" works wonders. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Nick C Posted September 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 18/09/2020 at 15:21, chuffinghell said: However I cannot move the tunnel mouth any further away from the curve otherwise my longest loco would enter the tunnel on the runaround loop Only just fits Nothing wrong with the loco entering the tunnel to run around - see Ventnor, IOW as an example... 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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