Warren Branch

[johnhutnick]

Since we on the subject of goods shed and trusses, Historic England has this and one other goods shed publication as a PDF.

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/railway-goods-shed-and-warehouse-in-england/the-railway-goods-shed-and-warehouse/

[chuffinghell]

They say a picture says a thousand words, so here are four thousand words

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lezz01]

Are you 3d printing the goods shed Chris?

Regards Lez.

[chuffinghell]

20 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Are you 3d printing the goods shed Chris?

Regards Lez.

Hi Lez

 

That was/is my intention, although it does seem to have taken on a life of it’s own

 

Things like the roof, windows, brick arches, guttering and downpipes etc will be from a Ratio engine shed kit

 

Chris

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by chuffinghell

[chuffinghell]

I’m taking my time with this because I want to get it right(ish)

 

I’ve put additional ‘timbers’ in (circled in green) so that I can attach the top of a hoist where they intersect

 

 

Similar to this

 

 

So there will be some proper modelling taking place too 

 

At the moment it places the hoist centre of the inner platform but looking at the photo I need to move it further in towards the edge of the platform perhaps?

 

Although I’m first going to have a look at where it would land if I do a diagonal cross brace as above

 

I am only thinking of doing this amount of detail because I have been considering a lift off roof

 

If anyone has a technical drawing of one of these hoists or can point me in the right direction it would be appreciated 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by chuffinghell

[MrWolf]

The crane jib should be long enough to reach the centre of the track through the shed and positioned to rotate through 360 degrees without hitting the wall of the shed. 

If that makes sense?

[chuffinghell]

2 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

The crane jib should be long enough to reach the centre of the track through the shed and positioned to rotate through 360 degrees without hitting the wall of the shed. 

If that makes sense?

That makes sense, although I didn’t think about it turning through 360 so thanks for that 

[Nick C]

2 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

The crane jib should be long enough to reach the centre of the track through the shed and positioned to rotate through 360 degrees without hitting the wall of the shed. 

If that makes sense?

I'd have thought it'd need to reach the far side of the track, for those cases where someone's loaded several crates into a wagon and you need to lift the one on the far side?

[MrWolf]

On 18/01/2021 at 22:02, Nick C said:

I'd have thought it'd need to reach the far side of the track, for those cases where someone's loaded several crates into a wagon and you need to lift the one on the far side?

 

That would be the ideal situation and I should have said that the minimum reach would be the track centre, sorry for creating any confusion there.

The longer the jib, the heavier the crane you need, the heavier the crane, the greater the supporting structure needs to be. Often with a loading hoist it's a case of swinging items outwards and dropping them or pick up and drag. It depends on how much space that you have.

It's also why an overhead crane is a better option in a large warehouse, but pre electricity, that wasn't an option. Probably the easiest thing to do short of having any drawing is to scale off a picture. Jibs of that type in the photo above are about 10' long. 

The one below came out of the Midland Railway shed at Lancaster Green Ayre. The two angled struts at the back were added when it was turned into a monument.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by MrWolf
Stupid autocorrect

[chuffinghell]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Probably the easiest thing to do short of having any drawing is to scale off a picture. Jibs of that type in the photo above are about 10' long. 

The one below came out of the Midland Railway shed at Lancaster Green Sure. The two angled struts at the back were added when it was turned into a monumenth.

 

is this how they are rigged up?

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by chuffinghell

[MrWolf]

Not 100% certain. There's usually a smaller pulley behind the largest one which the lifting chain runs over. The largest pulley usually has a seperate loop chain around it for quick lifts of lighter loads instead of the hand crank. Might be worth looking for midland railway internal goods cranes, in the prototype information section on here. I am sure that someone from the hmrs was talking about them. I can't post a picture, sketch or link ATM, 4g acting up, although all of the ####ing adverts are loading perfectly! 

[chuffinghell]

5 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Not 100% certain. There's usually a smaller pulley behind the largest one which the lifting chain runs over. The largest pulley usually has a seperate loop chain around it for quick lifts of lighter loads instead of the hand crank. Might be worth looking for midland railway internal goods cranes, in the prototype information section on here. I am sure that someone from the hmrs was talking about them. I can't post a picture, sketch or link ATM, 4g acting up, although all of the ####ing adverts are loading perfectly! 

I was just guessing, I’m struggling to find any close up photos or decent drawings

[MrWolf]

I would be guessing too to be honest. If you could walk around one even if the chains were missing, it would be easy to work out.

[Worsdell forever]

Here's a North Eastern goods shed crane, not sure if it was designed in house or was bought in but I think they were all pretty much alike. 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Worsdell forever
Replaced image with a clearer one.

[chuffinghell]

I would appreciate others opinions on this.........

 

 

 

Hoist radius is a scale 7ft 6"

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by chuffinghell

[Tortuga]

Although I have no experience of loading anything using a hoist, I’m going to say ‘B’ because;

1) I’m fairly certain that particular arrangement of supporting timbers is the one best suited to counteract the stresses generated by a load on the hoist being moved through 360 degrees.

2) the hoist being located toward one end of the shed potentially allows a second wagon to be loaded/unloaded (by hand) while the hoist is in use.

In ‘A’ it looks as though only one wagon could be in the shed while the hoist is in use and I think stress generated by a load on the hoist won’t be counteracted as well. The supporting timbers in ‘C’ just looks wrong to my eye; like the hoist has been added as an afterthought; as in “What? You mean you wanted to move heavy items in and out of wagons? Why didn’t you say so BEFORE we built the shed?”

[KingEdwardII]

Triangles. More Triangles. Engineers love triangles.

 

So I suggest option B with the addition of 2 cross-braces parallel with the tracks - to make more triangles.

 

I note that your photo of an original above has the 4 triangles arrangement...

 

Yours, Mike.

[Ponthir28]

B for me I think it looks right so it’s probably is right .

[chuffinghell]

1 hour ago, KingEdwardII said:

Triangles. More Triangles. Engineers love triangles.

 

Are you related to Pythagoras by any chance? 

 

You're quite right

 

1 hour ago, Ponthir28 said:

B for me I think it looks right so it’s probably is right .

 

I thought so too

 

Here is MKXI

 

 

1 hour ago, Tortuga said:

“What? You mean you wanted to move heavy items in and out of wagons? Why didn’t you say so BEFORE we built the shed?”

 

  quite right, it would look like it was build by bodgit and scarper

[MrWolf]

B is how it would have been done. A bit of Victorian belt and braces.

 

 

[Artless Bodger]

16 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

Similar to this

 

 

This is indeed your option B.

Regarding the hoist, looking at this photo; the hoist chain or cable is wound onto the drum on the same axle as the large pulley wheel, so you get maximum mechanical advantage, at a guess about 10 to 1. The big pulley is driven by the continuous chain loop around the small drum at the bottom of the post, this has one direct hand crank drive (left hand square spigot) for light loads (1 to 1), and has a geared drive from the right hand square spigot via the larger pulley / disc / gear furthest from the upright on the left hand shaft again at a guess about 10 to 1. So you have high and low gear winding. One crank handle demountable, put on the desired spigot. The metal loop in the 6-8 o'clock position on the big pulley keeps the transmission chain loop from jumping off. I'd expect to find a ratchet perhaps somewhere to hold the load once lifted.

[chuffinghell]

23 minutes ago, Artless Bodger said:

This is indeed your option B.

Regarding the hoist, looking at this photo; the hoist chain or cable is wound onto the drum on the same axle as the large pulley wheel, so you get maximum mechanical advantage, at a guess about 10 to 1. The big pulley is driven by the continuous chain loop around the small drum at the bottom of the post, this has one direct hand crank drive (left hand square spigot) for light loads (1 to 1), and has a geared drive from the right hand square spigot via the larger pulley / disc / gear furthest from the upright on the left hand shaft again at a guess about 10 to 1. So you have high and low gear winding. One crank handle demountable, put on the desired spigot. The metal loop in the 6-8 o'clock position on the big pulley keeps the transmission chain loop from jumping off. I'd expect to find a ratchet perhaps somewhere to hold the load once lifted.

 

Thank you

 

Have I interpreted correctly?

 

Chris

[simonmcp]

Looking good to me, just need the triangular, most likely cast iron, braces under the main jib.

 

Fantastic work on the rest of the goods shed as well.

[Artless Bodger]

Yes, that's how I interpret it, the crank you have drawn on the low gear spigot, it could be transferred to the high gear spigot concentric with the red circle.

[KingEdwardII]

2 hours ago, chuffinghell said:

Are you related to Pythagoras by any chance?

Great grandmother's second cousin... 

 

Mike