Coulsdon Works

[davidw]

60108 needs a double chimney. That and front steps can be got from Graeme King. He regularly contributes on Wright writes.

[thegreenhowards]

6 minutes ago, davidw said:

60108 needs a double chimney. That and front steps can be got from Graeme King. He regularly contributes on Wright writes.

Good point - Why didn’t I notice that! I have some in stock so will remedy before she makes her debut.

[thegreenhowards]

I’ve also finished off 60061, Pretty Polly which is my own conversion from a standard Hornby ‘St Gatien’. I know the wing deflectors weren’t successful but they’re an important part of the ECML story, so I thought I needed one A3 with them on. This time she’s got the correct double chimney!

 

[thegreenhowards]

...and finally I’ve finished off my two horse boxes - a Parkside d.5 (with the toilet window) and a D&S d.4. They will need weathering in due course, but I will run them like this for a while.

 

[Headstock]

On 19/01/2020 at 12:02, thegreenhowards said:

As I mentioned over on Gresley Junction, when I was at the Stevenage show last weekend, I bought an Isinglass 3D printed resin kit for a Gresley D.307 steel twin artic TO. These are similar to the tourist stock twin artics but made from steel and there were only two of these built. Last night I got it out for a play. The body kit looks like this.

 

You also get an Isinglass drawing and some basic instructions. It all goes together very easily and no instructions are really necessary. The chassis just clips into the body and the bogies are designed to clip into mountings line on Hornby Gresley coaches and are interchangeable with Hornby’s. Provision is also made for MJT bogies if preferred. So after an hour or two in front of the telly, this is where I’ve got to.

 

 

This must be the easiest kit ever! I’ve tried Hornby bogies on the left hand end, and Isinglass for the others. The middle one is Heavy duty. I suspect the ride height is too high, so will need some filing, but other than that, I think it looks the part.  It’s very light so will need ballast. The chassis has the angle iron but no other detail, so I will add white metal MJT bits to give some ballast and then see what else is needed. 

 

One word of caution; the instructions tell you not to use a knife to clean up the bracing parts which have to be cut off, but instead to file them smooth. I got bored with filing so tried a knife and the window frame chipped (far left above) and will need filling. 

 

These kits are not cheap (£85 for the pair with under frame), but you get everything you need except for wheels, interior and under frame castings. So as a quick way of getting an esoteric piece of rolling stock for the layout, I think they’re fantastic. Although for those that like to measure value for money in kits in terms of £/ hour entertainment, they’re not quite so good!

 

Andy

 

Good evening Andy,

 

there were four twins built to dia 307, along with two brake thirds to dia 308, all at York in 1939. They were not similar to the tourist stock, they were tourist stock, the last set to be built by the LNER. The bodies were not made from steel, they were wooden bodied with steel panelling, the underframes were steel but of welded rather than riveted construction. The carriages were not the only steel panelled tourist stock, many of the original plywood batch received steel panels over the course of their lives. I look forward to seeing the quality of the finish on these, the second, not yet available, batch from isinglass may contain some things that I may be interested in. Have you tried or seen any of the teak panelled carriages that they are producing?

 

P.S. The smokebox deflectors on 60061 should lean inwards not outwards.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Headstock
add P.S.

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I’ve had a few days of trying to fit decoders to kit built locos and finish off a few projects. So the operational loco stud for Gresley Jn has just increased significantly.

 

First, the kit built locos. These have all been purchased built from eBay or at shows but, as always, needed a bit of tweeting to get them running smoothly and sometimes a bit more tweaking to get them to run on DCC. 

60842. A Nucast V2 on a brass chassis with (whine free) portescap. It’s got ‘american’ pick ups, so I was worried about short circuits, but it seems very reliable. It’s missing front footsteps and I’m inclined to fit plastic ones for fear of short circuits. Does anyone know of a good source? I don’t really have a use for a NE V2, so she will become 60814 when I get round to it.

 

 

60052, Prince Palantine. DJH with Portescap (low whine). I had to redo the pickups as they were brass and not springy enough. Now with nickel silver she runs like a dream. I think I’ll keep her in ex works livery as the paint job is so good.

 

 

60513, Dante. This one had all the trimmings glued on, and they’ve been falling off with Monotonous regularity, but I’ve stuck or soldered (where possible) them back on. She's fitted with insulated drivers both sides and pick ups to all drivers - just what I like for DCC. Motor is a DJH GB1 mashima can and gearbox. Now runs very smoothly. Those who follow Gresley Junction will have already seen her in action.

 

60108, Gay Crusader, a KX regular. DJH kit. Fitted with DJH GB1 mashima can. This one has American style pick ups and runs well so far. Needs front foot steps (plastic I hope) and a smoke box door number, but has entered the operational fleet pending cosmetic finishing off.

 

Look out for them making their debuts on Gresley Jn over the next week or so.

 

Andy

 

 

Yo Andy dude

 

Get out your craft knife and the plastic card.  Or try making some from off cuts of an etched kit. You are more than capable to do so. 

[thegreenhowards]

3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Andy,

 

there were four twins built to dia 307, along with two brake thirds to dia 308, all at York in 1939. They were not similar to the tourist stock, they were tourist stock, the last set to be built by the LNER. The bodies were not made from steel, they were wooden bodied with steel panelling, the underframes were steel but of welded rather than riveted construction. The carriages were not the only steel panelled tourist stock, many of the original plywood batch received steel panels over the course of their lives. I look forward to seeing the quality of the finish on these, the second, not yet available, batch from isinglass may contain some things that I may be interested in. Have you tried or seen any of the teak panelled carriages that they are producing?

 

P.S. The smokebox deflectors on 60061 should lean inwards not outwards.

Evening Andrew,

 

You are, as always, Correct! I think most people think of the tourist stock as being the green and cream plywood bodied stock (I certainly do) and what I meant is that these D.307s are similar to the plywood bodied stock. 

 

This is my first Isinglass kit, although I have some 65ft sleepers on order from him. I suspect the teak panelled stock will be more difficult because the beading will get in the way of rubbing down. These are better than most 3D printed kits I’ve seen, but will still need some smoothing. I’ll report again after I’ve painted them.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

19 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Yo Andy dude

 

Get out your craft knife and the plastic card.  Or try making some from off cuts of an etched kit. You are more than capable to do so. 

Maybe so, but I was looking for a lazy man’s solution!

Edited January 22, 2020 by thegreenhowards
iPad spell corrector!

[thegreenhowards]

Final addition to the fleet (for now) is one that has had a very long wait - a Dapol class 21. I sold my old Hornby class 29 in anticipation about 3 years ago, but its a fine model and worth the wait. 

 

I bought D6120 and have renumbered it as D6106 as I needed one of the pilot scheme locos which were allocated to Hornsey. I chose D6106 on the basis that my Modelmaster transfers had ready made D6100 and D6106 of the pilot scheme locos and the first three or four had the BR emblem in a different location so D6100 would have required it moving. I also removed the Eastfield shedplates (which were applied quite crudely with superglue which was oozing out of the side) and gently rubbed the paint finish back with T cut. I decided not to put Hornsey shed plates on in their place as all the photos of them while allocated to Hornsey show no shed plates.

 

 

The detailing pack went on very easily and all the pipes seem to be designed to work with the tension lock couplings which is an improvement over Heljan’s diesels. Look out for her on an inner suburban working on Gresley Jn.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[FoxUnpopuli]

On 21/01/2020 at 16:51, thegreenhowards said:

 

Yeah...  I was looking at this too thinking 'that's not right...'

 

On 21/01/2020 at 18:37, Headstock said:

P.S. The smokebox deflectors on 60061 should lean inwards not outwards.

 

They should look like this:

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, FoxUnpopuli said:

 

Yeah...  I was looking at this too thinking 'that's not right...'

 

 

They should look like this:

 

 

 

Thanks, I’ll see what I can do. They’re superglued on so should be easy enough to reposition.

[Headstock]

On 21/01/2020 at 21:44, thegreenhowards said:

Evening Andrew,

 

You are, as always, Correct! I think most people think of the tourist stock as being the green and cream plywood bodied stock (I certainly do) and what I meant is that these D.307s are similar to the plywood bodied stock. 

 

This is my first Isinglass kit, although I have some 65ft sleepers on order from him. I suspect the teak panelled stock will be more difficult because the beading will get in the way of rubbing down. These are better than most 3D printed kits I’ve seen, but will still need some smoothing. I’ll report again after I’ve painted them.

 

Andy

 

Good evening Andy,

plywood panelled, not bodied, and have you considered pivoting deflectors that gently wiggle?

The tourist stock are quite interesting as quite a few people have produced models of them over the years. The old Mailcoach carriages, though not the most detailed, have surprisingly been the best of the bunch in terms of the general proportions. All of the brass etched versions have cocked up in one way or the other. I have a complete underframe and bogies that have been sitting around for years awaiting a suitable Buffet car body. A friend of mine etched me up some nice windows to modify and correct one of the brass kits but forgot to produce the beading required. I have never found anything suitable as a replacement as the beading needed to be half etched. By the time  the etches had been produced, I had completely backdated the train from 1952 to 1949 and the Buffet car became surplus to requirements.

Interestingly, the arrangement of the underframe that I mentioned above, looks to be identical to your Gresley Kitchen Buffet conversion. I could have sent you the underframe as it has been sitting about doing very little. I've considered rebuilding it as a conventional underframe, but it looks kind of nice and I may return to it one day.

 

When a friend and I were at York some years back, we extracted all the drawings that the NRM had of the Tourist stock. This is a quite considerable amount, everything from windows,  to beading, interior fittings, GA's etc. One that may be of interest to yourself, was the underframe drawing for the Buffet car. There was actually four gas cylinders arranged longitudinally between the queen posts. They were mounted in two pairs, each side of the centre line, close to the sole bars.

I have recently had a look on the Isinglass website, pondering if they produced the body or sides for the Tourist stock Buffet car. It is rather confusing. One section being a long list of things in production that could be by an older printing method, it is not very clear. What is more of interest is a second list that seems to be focused on new or up coming products, some nice goodies there. Then there is another page where you can order not very much from a group of drop down menus. I was left baffled by what is exactly available. I confess to being a little wary of this method of carriage construction, I wouldn't want something of less quality than I am happy with now. However, they may be offering some unobtainium on wheels, this has some appeal. I shall look forwards to the arrival of your giant Sleeping carriage and hope that you will be publishing some revealing photographs of it.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Headstock
clarify a point.

[thegreenhowards]

15 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Andy,

plywood panelled, not bodied, and have you considered pivoting deflectors that gently wiggle?

The tourist stock are quite interesting as quite a few people have produced models of them over the years. The old Mailcoach carriages, though not the most detailed, have surprisingly been the best of the bunch in terms of the general proportions. All of the brass etched versions have cocked up in one way or the other. I have a complete underframe and bogies that have been sitting around for years awaiting a suitable Buffet car body. A friend of mine etched me up some nice windows to modify and correct one of the brass kits but forgot to produce the beading required. I have never found anything suitable as a replacement as the beading needed to be half etched. By the time  the etches had been produced, I had completely backdated the train from 1952 to 1949 and the Buffet car became surplus to requirements.

Interestingly, the arrangement of the underframe that I mentioned above, looks to be identical to your Gresley Kitchen Buffet conversion. I could have sent you the underframe as it has been sitting about doing very little. I've considered rebuilding it as a conventional underframe, but it looks kind of nice and I may return to it one day.

 

When a friend and I were at York some years back, we extracted all the drawings that the NRM had of the Tourist stock. This is a quite considerable amount, everything from windows,  to beading, interior fittings, GA's etc. One that may be of interest to yourself, was the underframe drawing for the Buffet car. There was actually four gas cylinders arranged longitudinally between the queen posts. They were mounted in two pairs, each side of the centre line, close to the sole bars.

I have recently had a look on the Isinglass website, pondering if they produced the body or sides for the Tourist stock Buffet car. It is rather confusing. One section being a long list of things in production that could be by an older printing method, it is not very clear. What is more of interest is a second list that seems to be focused on new or up coming products, some nice goodies there. Then there is another page where you can order not very much from a group of drop down menus. I was left baffled by what is exactly available. I confess to being a little wary of this method of carriage construction, I wouldn't want something of less quality than I am happy with now. However, they may be offering some unobtainium on wheels, this has some appeal. I shall look forwards to the arrival of your giant Sleeping carriage and hope that you will be publishing some revealing photographs of it.

Andrew,

 

I agree that the Mailcoach kits made quite good models.

 

 

I didn’t make this make this rake and I’m aware that its too short, but I suspect they ran in shorter formations from time to time. My experience of Mailcoach kits that I have made (ex streamlined stock) is that they go together well but are an incredible fiddle to paint.

 

I was quite pleased with my (plywood panelled) tourist buffet car.

 

This is based on the RDEB etches. What is wrong with this?

 

I also have a set of Mousa etches for a twin TO in the to do pile. Are they not worth bothering with?

 

My understanding is that all of the Isinglass range is being produced by the new method and that, in theory, he can produce anything of which he has a drawing (which means most LNER carriages). But those not yet listed will need some work to bring them on stream, so if you want something, it’s worth speaking to him.

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

Andy,

 

I think your tourist set is too long if anything - my understanding is that they ran in sets of 12 or 7 - so your set should be BTO - TO/TO - RB - TO/TO - BTO.   That was the formation of the set we ran on Grantham once or twice when Roy Mears had just built it.   I've heard that referred to as a 'half set', but I'm not sure that was the official term.

[thegreenhowards]

4 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Andy,

 

I think your tourist set is too long if anything - my understanding is that they ran in sets of 12 or 7 - so your set should be BTO - TO/TO - RB - TO/TO - BTO.   That was the formation of the set we ran on Grantham once or twice when Roy Mears had just built it.   I've heard that referred to as a 'half set', but I'm not sure that was the official term.

Yes, I think I’d heard that. Weren’t some built as 7 and some as 12? I meant short for a 12 set. Sadly it doesn’t get much use as it’s too early for my period. Do you know when the last of the green and cream coaches were painted into Crimson and cream?

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

I'm sure I've seen at least one (colour) picture from after the War showing a buffet still in green and cream.

 

Were they painted brown during hostilities?   A buffet might have been stored out of use and so retained its peacetime livery.

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Andrew,

 

I agree that the Mailcoach kits made quite good models.

 

 

I didn’t make this make this rake and I’m aware that its too short, but I suspect they ran in shorter formations from time to time. My experience of Mailcoach kits that I have made (ex streamlined stock) is that they go together well but are an incredible fiddle to paint.

 

I was quite pleased with my (plywood panelled) tourist buffet car.

 

This is based on the RDEB etches. What is wrong with this?

 

I also have a set of Mousa etches for a twin TO in the to do pile. Are they not worth bothering with?

 

My understanding is that all of the Isinglass range is being produced by the new method and that, in theory, he can produce anything of which he has a drawing (which means most LNER carriages). But those not yet listed will need some work to bring them on stream, so if you want something, it’s worth speaking to him.

 

Andy

 

Good evening Andy,

 

your Buffet car looks very smart. As far as I can remember, the problem with the brass Buffet cars that I have encountered is the size of the windows.  Hopefully, the photo below shows what I am talking about. The windows occupy about half the height of the sides. I think that the Bedford windows are too small and there is not enough room for the cornice and the window frame above them. The RDEB ones also have slightly too small a window, but too much space above the window, it also needs a window frame. I did check the dimensions with the NRM drawings to confirm this. The interesting thing that becomes apparent when you look at the drawings, is that the windows were produced as a unit that was inserted from the front and bolted in place, On that basis, I had separate etched windows produced as I find them such a prominent feature.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Headstock

[FoxUnpopuli]

@HeadstockIt looks as if the best way to make that Buffet coach pictured as a model would be use a transparent coach side, paint the livery onto it, and bond etched metal windowframes onto that!  I wonder if thick aluminium foil can be laser cut...

 

@thegreenhowardsI do like your tourist stock set - any more action photos of them?  I don't know if their livery survived the war, but rule #1 would apply for me, I'd put them behind an apple green V2 and run a seaside special!  I think I'd be in a queue if they ever came up for sale...?

[Headstock]

20 minutes ago, FoxUnpopuli said:

@HeadstockIt looks as if the best way to make that Buffet coach pictured as a model would be use a transparent coach side, paint the livery onto it, and bond etched metal windowframes onto that!  I wonder if thick aluminium foil can be laser cut...

 

@thegreenhowardsI do like your tourist stock set - any more action photos of them?  I don't know if their livery survived the war, but rule #1 would apply for me, I'd put them behind an apple green V2 and run a seaside special!  I think I'd be in a queue if they ever came up for sale...?

 

Good evening Mark,

 

I could solder them on to the brass sides along with the half etch beading and file out the existing windows to match, that was the original plan and not that big a job.

[thegreenhowards]

50 minutes ago, FoxUnpopuli said:

 

@thegreenhowardsI do like your tourist stock set - any more action photos of them?  I don't know if their livery survived the war, but rule #1 would apply for me, I'd put them behind an apple green V2 and run a seaside special!  I think I'd be in a queue if they ever came up for sale...?

Thanks for your kind words, I’m afraid they’re not for sale!

 

I don’t have any other pictures as the layout is DCC but I haven’t fitted my pre war stock. I tend to just run it on the club layout. I’m away for a few days on a rail tour in Spain but when I return I’ll stick a chip in the V2 and take some video.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

Spurred on by needing it for a train to run on my Gresley Jn thread, I’ve finally finished the D.16 rebuilt RKB today. Here she is.

 

 

In cruel close up you can see that the sides are slightly wonky, but I think that’s inevitable (at least for me) given the number of cut and shuts that were required (as a reminder see the original post here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135510-coulsdon-works/&do=findComment&comment=3760679).

 

As a layout coach she is OK and certainly looks a bit different to other coaches. Moreover it now enables me to form the correct formation for the 1845 King’s Cross- Cleethorpes. Follow Gresley Junction (link below) to see that running in the next few days.

 

Both the roof and the under frame were educated guesswork from the photos I had available. If anyone knows better then please let me know.

 

Andy

 

[thegreenhowards]

I’ve just finished another Kirk cut ‘n’ shut. This time it’s a Gresley 66ft SLF. These are very elegant coaches and a particular favourite of mine. I’m hopping that Isinglass will do some kits in due course, but until then Kirk cut ‘n’ shuts are the way to go. Here is the coach.

 

The sides and ends come from the shorter SLF which Kirk did. The roof and under frame is MJT with Heavy Duty bogies.

 

 

This will form part of my Aberdonian rake which I‘ve been backdating from 1957 (mixed Maroon & C/C) to 1955 (all C/C). The displaced maroon SLF will form party of my Night Scotsman rake.

 

[thegreenhowards]

I’ve been building signals again. 

 

This one is for our club exhibition layout Oakbourne. It will be a platform starter with the left hand doll for the branch exit and the right hand for what is currently a headshunt and will eventually be a short branch leading to an industrial complex. It’s waiting for finials which I will add later for fear of breaking them. The layout runs in different regional guises, but I’ve based this on LNER practice hoping it will also pass for Southern to the less discerning eye.

 

This is built from MSE components.  I’ve built a straightforward MSE kit before, but never a signal from separate components and the instructions were rudimentary. So some questions for any signalling experts out there:

1. It looks too tall. I realise that signals were all sort of different heights for sighting purposes, but is there a standard height for situations where sighting is not a problem? If not I’m inclined to take 10mm off the larger doll and 30mm of the main post.

2. Can I get away with a normal home arm for what is currently a headshunt, or should this be some sort of shunt signal?

3. Have I made any glaring errors with the ‘kit’?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

[John Tomlinson]

I'm not a signalling expert, but....

 

IIRC there are standard heights for signals, although less helpfully I don't know what they are. Suggest you don't cut anything off just yet as someone on here will know the answer.

 

I think a headshunt should have the smaller shunt signal, although if it turns into a branch line then fine as is.

 

I wonder if the balance arms should be situated as you've done them, or at the foot of the tower on which each signal sits, or even at the foot of the main tower?

 

Presumably you'll add ladders and a safety rail on the platform in due course when the height is sorted.

 

John.

[thegreenhowards]

4 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

I'm not a signalling expert, but....

 

IIRC there are standard heights for signals, although less helpfully I don't know what they are. Suggest you don't cut anything off just yet as someone on here will know the answer.

 

I think a headshunt should have the smaller shunt signal, although if it turns into a branch line then fine as is.

 

I wonder if the balance arms should be situated as you've done them, or at the foot of the tower on which each signal sits, or even at the foot of the main tower?

 

Presumably you'll add ladders and a safety rail on the platform in due course when the height is sorted.

 

John.

John,

 

Thanks for those comments. Yes, ladders and rails will be added in due course. I forgot them on my first order so they’ll have to wait for a bit. The instructions say balance arms should be four feet below the signal arm if the signal is in a public area and 4ft above ground level otherwise. This will be just off the end of a platform, so I’m assuming that’s a public area.

 

Andy