Coulsdon Works

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I suppose it depends what's under the sheet, but I'd put either wooden bracing or straw (loose or in sacks), I think.  A wooden baulk nailed across the wagon would be the minimum, unless the load would override it in a bump.

 

Or you could argue that it is secured to the floor and the sheet's covered it up.  Visible bracing/packing is more interesting, though.

I’d like it to be removable so the wagon can return empty, so straw doesn’t sound practical. A wooden brace each end attached to the load might work - the problem is that with all this lockdown I’ve run out of coffee stirrers!

[thegreenhowards]

I finished off three more wagons last night and this morning.

 

The fish van was a new kit. It’s a bit late for my O gauge timeline not being introduced until 1938, but I forgot this when I bought it and I like them so will make an exception.  The others were from eBay both built but painted and numbered in BR bauxite livery which must be wrong as they were both unfitted vans. The LNER van is the same diagram as the one I showed yesterday. So I repainted both and lettered them up in c.1930 livery. 

 

I think they make a nice looking rake with the two I showed yesterday

 

 

Next project for backdating is this 7 plank mineral wagon, again bought off ebay.

 

I wasn’t to do it as a company wagon, but I cant work out which diagram it is. The underneath states Slaters 7R045-6. I can’t find that exact reference, but 7045 seems to be an 8 plank PO wagon, so I’m confused!

 

 

 

Can anyone help identify this?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

I may be wrong, Andy, but I think the vast majority, if not all, Big 4 RCH (or similar) minerals had steel end posts rather than timber.   Slaters do some quite interesting variants on the 'standard' coal wagon and that one looks as though it might be one (the latching arrangement on the end door caught my eye) so you might find it's not an exact match for any LNER order.

 

Edit  - and it ought to have a hinge bar on the end door.   They're surprisingly visible once you've gone to the trouble of making and fitting them.

Edited February 10, 2021 by jwealleans

[John Tomlinson]

Your rate of progress continues to astound me!

 

The 7mm wagons all look very convincing.

 

John.

[thegreenhowards]

6 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I may be wrong, Andy, but I think the vast majority, if not all, Big 4 RCH (or similar) minerals had steel end posts rather than timber.   Slaters do some quite interesting variants on the 'standard' coal wagon and that one looks as though it might be one (the latching arrangement on the end door caught my eye) so you might find it's not an exact match for any LNER order.

 

Edit  - and it ought to have a hinge bar on the end door.   They're surprisingly visible once you've gone to the trouble of making and fitting them.

Thanks Jonathan,

 

I was afraid that might be the answer. I presume this must have been a PO wagon. The M number lulled me into a false sense of security on eBay. I might just have to pretend it’s LNER and see if anyone notices - don’t tell Headstock! I was aware of the hinge bar. The Slaters wagons do have them so this one must have lost it at some stage. Easy enough to rig up a replacement. 

 

Andy

Edited February 10, 2021 by thegreenhowards

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Your rate of progress continues to astound me!

 

The 7mm wagons all look very convincing.

 

John.

It’s made easier by the weather. Too icy to ride my bike and too cold to go in the loft and run any trains. So there won’t be a Gresley Jn update today.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

I’ve been cracking on with the Kirk O gauge coach sides. I’ve added a BG and now painted all six sides in teak livery.

 

Next job is glazing and grab handles which are both easier done in the flat, then I can start building up the coach.

 

Andy

[Tony Teague]

I am amazed at how you have managed to get all of those little bits joined so well, into something that looks like a cohesive whole!

(And the teak looks pretty good too!).

Tony

[thegreenhowards]

20 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

I am amazed at how you have managed to get all of those little bits joined so well, into something that looks like a cohesive whole!

(And the teak looks pretty good too!).

Tony

Thanks Tony,

 

I have to say it’s a breeze with these O gauge kits as they are designed like this, I.e. ready cut to size. And the bigger scale makes the imperfections less noticeable. It is much more difficult with some of the 4mm cut and shuts I’ve done when I have to do my own cutting.

 

Thanks for your comments on my teak. I put it off for years and even chose the 1950s for Gresley Jn partly to avoid having to paint teak which I thought would be beyond someone as unartistic as me. But I now really joy it - I find swirling the paint around very therapeutic.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

Today I’ve been working on my latest eBay purchase which was this white metal GCR/LNER F1 bought for £60 which I thought was reasonable given the unbuilt kits often go for over £100. I assume it’s the Cotswold kit.

 

 

 

 

It was a bit ropey and the paint job is poor but the basic build of the kit was OK. The chassis was basic being two slabs of brass and an X04 although the Romford wheels were OK. 
 

A few years ago I started trying to convert a Bachmann L&YR 2-4-2T into a F2 but got stuck and put it back in its box in disgust! The F1 was very similiar to the F2, so I thought this would make a good basis. Today, I hacked the Bachmann chassis around to get it to fit which it now does, so I will have smooth running loco. I also removed the chimney, remains of the smokebox door handles, buffers and safety valve all of which will be replaced by parts I had already got from SEFinecast (from their N5).

 

So it now looks like this (new chimney rested in place only).

 

 

 

As you can see I had to remove quite a bit of metal from the inside to get the chassis to fit. The body was glued together and has come apart in places, so tomorrow I’ll be out with the soldering iron to fit some captive nuts and then reattach the footplate to the rest of the body and then attach the new safety valves (the open Ramsbottom type) and wheel based smokebox door handle.
 

Then I think it will need stripping and a repaint. I intend to finish it as E9111 in 1949/50 guise with ‘’BRITISH RAILWAYS’ on the side. This was one of the last survivors and worked out its time on the Ally Pally push pull.

 

The butchered Bachmann body and brass chassis will probably go on eBay as a project for the brave! 
 

Any comments welcome, particularly on things I may have missed.

 

Andy

 

 

[Jon4470]

Andy

Just a quick thought. You say the body is glued together. As you plan to strip the paint anyway, wouldn’t it be best to do this before you start fitting other parts. Just thinking that the glue may dissolve in the paint stripper.....

 

Jon

[thegreenhowards]

46 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

Andy

Just a quick thought. You say the body is glued together. As you plan to strip the paint anyway, wouldn’t it be best to do this before you start fitting other parts. Just thinking that the glue may dissolve in the paint stripper.....

 

Jon

I did consider that Jon, but the body is generally well glued together. I use duluxe materials ‘strip magic’ which doesn’t seem to affect glue. It doesn’t strip quite as effectively as some others but gives me a good clean surface on which to spray. I may live to regret it, so perhaps I should strip first just in case.

[thegreenhowards]

I decided to follow Jon’s recommendation in the end and stripped the loco first. It proved quite hard work as it was painted with some pretty thick tar like paint. It came off eventually but I had to finish off with a brass wire brush in my Dremel. There’s some nice rivet detail on the white metal which I think I’ve managed to save - we’ll see after it’s painted again.

 

After stripping I’ve added the detail parts, so it’s now ready for the paint bench which should be possible this week as it’s warmed up.

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by thegreenhowards
Original post to wrong thread.

[richard i]

Just out of interest, why could you not get the lanky tank conversion to work? I had been eyeing it up as a possible route to save paying the 100 or so quid for the unbuilt kits. 
many thanks

richard 

[thegreenhowards]

3 hours ago, richard i said:

Just out of interest, why could you not get the lanky tank conversion to work? I had been eyeing it up as a possible route to save paying the 100 or so quid for the unbuilt kits. 
many thanks

richard 

That’s a good question Richard. I think it was a combination of factors. It was a good couple of years ago I tried and I was less experienced then and it depends on how many compromises you’re willing to make. I started a thread on the LNER Forum about it here.

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9104&p=126332&hilit=F2#p126332

The project grew from a basic conversion to using lots of SE Finecast bits from the N5 kit to make it more GC. I then creased the brass overlays and got into problems with lengthening the cab roof and dealing with the transitions around the cab sides and roof - I forget now exactly what the problem was. When I hit a problem I often lose patience and put it away - this one stayed in its box for too long! I probably could have made it work eventually but I like white metal kits, so when this F1 came up I snapped it up.  The picture below shows the progress on the old conversion.

 

 

If you (or any other readers but Richard has first refusal) want the parts to have a play yourself you’d be very welcome - PM me.

 

Andy

 

[Keith Turbutt]

Andy,

 

I'm not sure  how the wheelbase of the F1 compares with the F2 but you may wish to take a look at the position of the spring over the leading axle before it goes into the paint shop. The spring should be central over the axle but appears to be quite a way off . The casting looks a bit low down and generally looks anemic. If you have a better set in the spares box or can find a better one among the small suppliers such as Alan Gibson it may be worth changing. I attach an extract from a photo in LNER Encyclopedia which I found by searching LNER F1 in my browser (and hopefully not breaching copyright). I think you will agree that it is quite a prominent feature.

 

Good luck with the project.

 

 

[Asterix2012]

31 minutes ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Andy,

 

I'm not sure  how the wheelbase of the F1 compares with the F2 but you may wish to take a look at the position of the spring over the leading axle before it goes into the paint shop. The spring should be central over the axle but appears to be quite a way off . The casting looks a bit low down and generally looks anemic. If you have a better set in the spares box or can find a better one among the small suppliers such as Alan Gibson it may be worth changing. I attach an extract from a photo in LNER Encyclopedia which I found by searching LNER F1 in my browser (and hopefully not breaching copyright). I think you will agree that it is quite a prominent feature.

 

Good luck with the project.

 

 

I see what you mean, spring looks too far back and sitting too low.

 

it may be about the right size but the lower part is below the running plate on the model.

[thegreenhowards]

11 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Andy,

 

I'm not sure  how the wheelbase of the F1 compares with the F2 but you may wish to take a look at the position of the spring over the leading axle before it goes into the paint shop. The spring should be central over the axle but appears to be quite a way off . The casting looks a bit low down and generally looks anemic. If you have a better set in the spares box or can find a better one among the small suppliers such as Alan Gibson it may be worth changing. I attach an extract from a photo in LNER Encyclopedia which I found by searching LNER F1 in my browser (and hopefully not breaching copyright). I think you will agree that it is quite a prominent feature.

 

Good luck with the project.

 

 

Thanks Keith and Asterix,

 

I see what you mean. The problem is not so much the difference between the F1 and F2 as the difference between the L&YR 2-4-2T and the F2 as the chassis is pure Bachmann. In fact these were pretty similar (which is why I chose it as a donor) but there was a 6” (i.e. 2mm) difference at the front as you may be able to see in the photo below which explains some of  your observed problem.

 

This wouldn’t have been so obvious if using the Bachmann body and chassis as per my original intention - they would both have been equally wrong! 

 

The issue has been exacerbated by my fixing the chassis too far forward in the body. This was me being lazy and trying to reuse existing fixing holes.

 

I think I can solve both problems by moving the chassis back about 3mm. This will mean that the drivers and rear axle are slightly too far back but that is less noticeable because they don't have leaf springs. Before I start hacking into white metal does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

Thanks for your help. That is why I post things on here half completed as I can rely on people to spot things I have missed.

 

Andy

 

P.S. I also note from the pictures that I have managed to knock off the whistle I put on top of the cab. I will have to try to find another in my spares box but will leave it to the end as it’s very vulnerable.

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

I have a detailing question. Does anyone know where I can get push pull gear like the one in the photo below?

 

 

I remember struggling to find one for my C12 and eventually settled for an LMS (I think) version as below.

 

The trouble is that firstly, it’s not quite right and even if it were, I cant remember where I got it! I remember touring all the stands at Scaleforum asking about it but can’t remember which one I bought it from. Gibson list push pull gear but with no picture, so it may be him?

 

Can anyone help with a source?

 

Andy

Edited February 16, 2021 by thegreenhowards

[jwealleans]

The only person I can remember who did it (for a G5) was Dave Alexander, sadly.  Gibson would have been my next port of call.

 

Failing that, try one of the 3D printing specialists?

[thegreenhowards]

Progress on the F2. I tried moving the chassis back on the body but that looked very front heavy. So In looked again at the photos/ drawings that i have and realised that whoever fitted the springs on the original F1 kit did so in the wrong position. So I moved the springs forward by 2-3mm so they line up with the front wheels and raised them slightly to make them more prominent. I think it now looks OK.

 

On the push pull gear I decided that I wasn’t prepared to pay postage for one small part that isn’t even quite correct for LNER engines. So I dug around in my spares box and knocked one up out of half a Westinghouse pump and some bits and bobs. Here is the result. The push pull gear doesn’t bear close scrutiny but it gives an impression.

 

 

Any more comments before she enters the spray booth?

 

Andy

 

[65179]

Looks very good. I note the prototype photo shows a snifting valve beside the chimney on the smokebox (the square plate for it is just at the top of the cropped image above). I've got a feeling the C13s with p-p gear had one either side of the chimney. Worth a quick check of other photos to see if you need one or two?

 

Simon

[65179]

To possibly answer my own question:

 

7113 at Cranley Gardens . Paul Johnson Transports of Delight collection:

 

My only worry is that on the C13 at least the other snifting valve seems to have played hide and seek round the chimney. Starting opposite the one on the far side and then in later years being moved to the normal position for most LNER locos in later years behind the chimney.  I don't have the relevant Yeadon to check either.

 

If it's an easy switch replacing or filling in the chunky coal rails to look more like the solid bunker extension might be another change to suggest F2 rather than F1.

 

Simon

Edited February 17, 2021 by 65179
To add photo attribution

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, 65179 said:

To possibly answer my own question:

 

7113 at Cranley Gardens . Paul Johnson Transports of Delight collection:

 

My only worry is that on the C13 at least the other snifting valve seems to have played hide and seek round the chimney. Starting opposite the one on the far side and then in later years being moved to the normal position for most LNER locos in later years behind the chimney.  I don't have the relevant Yeadon to check either.

 

If it's an easy switch replacing or filling in the chunky coal rails to look more like the solid bunker extension might be another change to suggest F2 rather than F1.

 

Simon

Thanks Simon,

 

I should have spotted that snifting valve. From Yeadon vol 36 it’s clear that it was on the LH side only. I’ve added it this evening along with some lamp irons. I think the plating over was more a timing thing than an F1/ F2 thing. But you’re right that it should be done on mine. It seems a shame to cover up the nice rails, but it’s all in the interests of accuracy. I think it should be done on the outside, but it won’t be easy to do without being too thick.

 

Nice photo of 7113. Those carriages appear a lot on the Ally Pally shuttle pictures. Are they just standard Gresley non corridor stock? The roof line looks a bit different between the two which makes me wonder whether one is different.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[65179]

33 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks Simon,

 

I should have spotted that snifting valve. From Yeadon vol 36 it’s clear that it was on the LH side only. I’ve added it this evening along with some lamp irons. I think the plating over was more a timing thing than an F1/ F2 thing. But you’re right that it should be done on mine. It seems a shame to cover up the nice rails, but it’s all in the interests of accuracy. I think it should be done on the outside, but it won’t be easy to do without being too thick.

 

Nice photo of 7113. Those carriages appear a lot on the Ally Pally shuttle pictures. Are they just standard Gresley non corridor stock? The roof line looks a bit different between the two which makes me wonder whether one is different.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

No problem Andy. On reflection there's no room for a snifting valve behind the chimney on a F2!

 

The first carriage isn't LNER, but the second is Gresley. Possibly a cascaded NER third, although my knowledge of GER stock isn't good enough to rule that out. That nice Mr Headstock will no doubt set you straight at some point!

 

Simon