Coulsdon Works

[thegreenhowards]

7 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Yep, that's about it.   I know different LNER works did their own thing  - every signwriter on the LMS seems to have been a law unto himself.

That’s a relief because the Fox transfers I bought are a different size to the Parkside ones which should have been included in my kit, but were missing on my eBay purchases. So I’ve had to improvise a bit!

[John Tomlinson]

Hi Andy,

 

Given the BR (ER) focus of this thread, I thought the following little note might be of interest, but if you would like it removed please do say.

 

A few days ago I received from Andy Edgson of Isinglass a 3D print for the vehicle posted at the start of this thread, namely the LNER Kitchen Car conversion from the former GN Restaurant Car. Andy has had the original in his range for a while, and when I approached him for one but asked for the later drawing to attempt my own conversion, he offered to do the CAD work and print me the real thing. I don't think he's yet added it to his website catalogue, but I'm sure would be able to print one should anyone else be interested.

 

We've subjected all our mail to a quarantine period for the last year, but with my box of goodies now clear I made a start yesterday cutting the parts from the sprues, and doing a bit of cleaning up, plus a good scrub with Cif in warm water. There's also a little bag of bits such as gas cylinders, coach end gangways etc., which I forgot to photograph when I took the whole thing outside earlier in our lovely sunshine. As ever the kit comes with the relevant drawing. There are some useful tips on these vehicles on Steve Banks website, plus a lovely shot of one in maroon on p2007 of Wright Writes here on RMweb.

 

Coincidentaly, I've finally finished faffing about with my only other Isinglass 3D kit to date, the Dia.109 Sleeper 3rd, being the one that worked like Couchettes on the Continent. Sadly this has developed a bit of a bow towards the centre, despite some considerable care in storage at all times, but there you go! Underpinnings are MJT, as are the roof vents. I've attached a picture of this also.

 

John.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by John Tomlinson
Corrected Dia.109 from 108

[thegreenhowards]

John,

 

I welcome your alternative take on the Kitchen car. Thanks for posting it. I’m sure yours will make a better model. It will certainly be straighter as mine suffered from lots of Kirk bits being glued together.

 

I note that the ends look very straight with limited turnunder. Was that a feature of these coaches or have Isinglass got it wrong?

 

As for the picture on Wright Writes  - I assume you mean the one below. Be careful interpreting this. It’s the one I used in the main for mine and I painted mine in unlined maroon as a result. But I now think the coach is actually still in teak/ coach brown livery and that’s why it’s not lined. I could be wrong and I’d welcome other views.

I like the sleeper - I think it’s D.109 rather than D.108? I have three of these done from Kirk sides. Two are on Hornby donors and one Kirk/ MJT. Also my research suggested that they were not branded ‘SLEEPING CAR’ although the later and longer D.148s were. I’d be delighted to be proved wrong as I think they look more distinctive with the branding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by thegreenhowards

[davidw]

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Hi Andy,

 

Given the BR (ER) focus of this thread, I thought the following little note might be of interest, but if you would like it removed please do say.

 

A few days ago I received from Andy Edgson of Isinglass a 3D print for the vehicle posted at the start of this thread, namely the LNER Kitchen Car conversion from the former GN Restaurant Car. Andy has had the original in his range for a while, and when I approached him for one but asked for the later drawing to attempt my own conversion, he offered to do the CAD work and print me the real thing. I don't think he's yet added it to his website catalogue, but I'm sure would be able to print one should anyone else be interested.

 

We've subjected all our mail to a quarantine period for the last year, but with my box of goodies now clear I made a start yesterday cutting the parts from the sprues, and doing a bit of cleaning up, plus a good scrub with Cif in warm water. There's also a little bag of bits such as gas cylinders, coach end gangways etc., which I forgot to photograph when I took the whole thing outside earlier in our lovely sunshine. As ever the kit comes with the relevant drawing. There are some useful tips on these vehicles on Steve Banks website, plus a lovely shot of one in maroon on p2007 of Wright Writes here on RMweb.

 

Coincidentaly, I've finally finished faffing about with my only other Isinglass 3D kit to date, the Dia.108 Sleeper 3rd, being the one that worked like Couchettes on the Continent. Sadly this has developed a bit of a bow towards the centre, despite some considerable care in storage at all times, but there you go! Underpinnings are MJT, as are the roof vents. I've attached a picture of this also.

 

John.

 

 

What paint or painting techniques did you use on the sleeper?

[John Tomlinson]

17 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

John,

 

I welcome your alternative take on the Kitchen car. Thanks for posting it. I’m sure yours will make a better model. It will certainly be straighter as mine suffered from lots of Kirk bits being glued together.

 

I note that the ends look very straight with limited turnunder. Was that a feature of these coaches or have Isinglass got it wrong?

 

As for the picture on Wright Writes  - I assume you mean the one below. Be careful interpreting this. It’s the one I used in the main for mine and I painted mine in unlined maroon as a result. But I now think the coach is actually still in teak/ coach brown livery and that’s why it’s not lined. I could be wrong and I’d welcome other views.

I like the sleeper - I think it’s D.109 rather than D.108? I have three of these done from Kirk sides. Two are on Hornby donors and one Kirk/ MJT. Also my research suggested that they were not branded ‘SLEEPING CAR’ although the later and longer D.148s were. I’d be delighted to be proved wrong as I think they look more distinctive with the branding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Andy,

 

I think I'll reserve judgement as to how well my Kitchen Car turns out until it's done, I do have some trepidation about these things given the fragility of the resin! Plus you've actually made yours, with very considerable thought and effort, which is worth a lot in my book.

 

The ends do look a bit straight at the side in the picture, less so in reality, however it may be necessary to do a bit of filing when they're assembled with the sides (the sides do have a nice turnunder). Since I did the Sleeper Andy has modified the ends a bit in terms of the ledges for fitting, however I think they're still not quite there and need a bit of fettling to get a fit to both sides and base - nothing too difficult however. The picture on Wright Writes could be in Teak/ Brown, but a bit late if it is from 1957, however there certainly appears not to be lining. There's a picture of one of the vehicles on Steve Banks site in Carmine and Cream, that definitely is lined.

 

Turning to the Sleeper, quite right it is Dia.109, now amended, I must have BR 16t minerals on the brain to use the other number! I hadn't seen the pictures you've posted of your three before, they look very good and you've made more of an effort with the interiors than me, mine is just sprayed plain brown. There is a dearth of pictures of these or of the Dia.95's that had the flush doors, but one I did see on the HMRS site suggested that the external compartment windows might have some form of Venetian blind. Even if this is so I've no idea how this could be modelled and mine will stay as is, not least as I've had to superglue the roof on to make it fit with the sides having developed a bow.

 

I haven't managed to find one picture of either Dia. 95 or 109 in BR days, so you may be right about the branding. The Isinglass drawing for Dia.109 states in the notes that they were branded "Sleeping Car" by the LNER after 1931 when they were no longer considered to be for day or night use, and just used for sleeper duties, and his drawing shows one side in BR days with the "Sleeping Car" branding in the upper central panel as I have done. However, without a picture who really knows? Sadly Mr. Banks has not to date written the piece on his site concerning these vehicles, so that is no help either. I'm afraid I don't go to the commendable lengths of Andrew (Headstock) in research, so I'm a bit stuck! Also I don't know for sure if my example E1291E ever made it to Maroon as some were withdrawn earlier in the '50's, I simply chose a later number in the hope these lasted longer.

 

A great rule of modelling, "the more one finds out, the less one realises is actually known"!!

 

Happy Easter,

 

John.

[John Tomlinson]

16 hours ago, davidw said:

What paint or painting techniques did you use on the sleeper?

David,

 

After a final good scrub with Cif and a rinse, the initial coat was of Precision Phoenix two part etch primer, applied quite thinly, through my Badger 200 airbrush. This was to everything, inside and out, bogies, roof, main bodyshell and chassis.

 

I left this a few days to cure thoroughly, and then sprayed Railmatch maroon enamel on the body, inside and out, Precision Phoenix BR freight grey enamel on the roof, this being a separate piece at the time. The maroon was sprayed again after a couple of days as it was a bit thin in places, as I'm sure you know reds don't always cover that well. After a few more days the bodysides were masked off with Tamiya tape and paper towel, and the ends and underframe sprayed Railmatch weathered black enamel. When this was dry I did the transfers using HMRS Pressfix sheet 14.

 

After a few more days I did a wash using a brush of very dilute Railmatch frame dirt (or maybe sleeper grime - they're quite similar) enamel over the body sides and ends, and the underframe, taking most of it off again with thinners, to leave a little residue against the panelling and also dulling down the bright, shiny look of the maroon. It did make a difference, although the maroon still looks quite perky as you see in the picture. The roof was lightly dusted unevenly using the airbrush with either Railmatch weathered black, or possibly their roof dirt, I think these are almost identical. Again this does make a difference, although it's quite subtle.

 

Psychologically, I'm not really cut out for weathering as I'm naturally too precise, and weathering requires more of an artistic temperament, a defect in my make up I recognised some while ago. So I see "weathering" simply as a muting of the colours, to give something of a "scale distance" effect, and also reduce what can be a rather toy like appearance of our creations. However my models and I still inhabit a relatively ideal world of sunshine and high maintenance standards!

 

Hope that helps,

 

John.

[davidw]

12 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

David,

 

After a final good scrub with Cif and a rinse, the initial coat was of Precision Phoenix two part etch primer, applied quite thinly, through my Badger 200 airbrush. This was to everything, inside and out, bogies, roof, main bodyshell and chassis.

 

I left this a few days to cure thoroughly, and then sprayed Railmatch maroon enamel on the body, inside and out, Precision Phoenix BR freight grey enamel on the roof, this being a separate piece at the time. The maroon was sprayed again after a couple of days as it was a bit thin in places, as I'm sure you know reds don't always cover that well. After a few more days the bodysides were masked off with Tamiya tape and paper towel, and the ends and underframe sprayed Railmatch weathered black enamel. When this was dry I did the transfers using HMRS Pressfix sheet 14.

 

After a few more days I did a wash using a brush of very dilute Railmatch frame dirt (or maybe sleeper grime - they're quite similar) enamel over the body sides and ends, and the underframe, taking most of it off again with thinners, to leave a little residue against the panelling and also dulling down the bright, shiny look of the maroon. It did make a difference, although the maroon still looks quite perky as you see in the picture. The roof was lightly dusted unevenly using the airbrush with either Railmatch weathered black, or possibly their roof dirt, I think these are almost identical. Again this does make a difference, although it's quite subtle.

 

Psychologically, I'm not really cut out for weathering as I'm naturally too precise, and weathering requires more of an artistic temperament, a defect in my make up I recognised some while ago. So I see "weathering" simply as a muting of the colours, to give something of a "scale distance" effect, and also reduce what can be a rather toy like appearance of our creations. However my models and I still inhabit a relatively ideal world of sunshine and high maintenance standards!

 

Hope that helps,

 

John.

Just a thanks seems insufficient for such a thorough answer. Most appreciated

[thegreenhowards]

42 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

Hi Andy,

 

I think I'll reserve judgement as to how well my Kitchen Car turns out until it's done, I do have some trepidation about these things given the fragility of the resin! Plus you've actually made yours, with very considerable thought and effort, which is worth a lot in my book.

 

The ends do look a bit straight at the side in the picture, less so in reality, however it may be necessary to do a bit of filing when they're assembled with the sides (the sides do have a nice turnunder). Since I did the Sleeper Andy has modified the ends a bit in terms of the ledges for fitting, however I think they're still not quite there and need a bit of fettling to get a fit to both sides and base - nothing too difficult however. The picture on Wright Writes could be in Teak/ Brown, but a bit late if it is from 1957, however there certainly appears not to be lining. There's a picture of one of the vehicles on Steve Banks site in Carmine and Cream, that definitely is lined.

 

I think some teak liveried vehicles made it through to 1959 (see https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/85-modelling/133-teak-coaches) and this wouldn’t have been used very much so perhaps subject to less frequent shopping? I remember Tony querying the lack of lining in maroon which he thought was very odd which is partly what suggests to me that it’s in teak. We’ll probably never know for sure, so crimson and cream might be your best bet.

 

42 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

Turning to the Sleeper, quite right it is Dia.109, now amended, I must have BR 16t minerals on the brain to use the other number! I hadn't seen the pictures you've posted of your three before, they look very good and you've made more of an effort with the interiors than me, mine is just sprayed plain brown. There is a dearth of pictures of these or of the Dia.95's that had the flush doors, but one I did see on the HMRS site suggested that the external compartment windows might have some form of Venetian blind. Even if this is so I've no idea how this could be modelled and mine will stay as is, not least as I've had to superglue the roof on to make it fit with the sides having developed a bow.

 

I haven't managed to find one picture of either Dia. 95 or 109 in BR days, so you may be right about the branding. The Isinglass drawing for Dia.109 states in the notes that they were branded "Sleeping Car" by the LNER after 1931 when they were no longer considered to be for day or night use, and just used for sleeper duties, and his drawing shows one side in BR days with the "Sleeping Car" branding in the upper central panel as I have done. However, without a picture who really knows? Sadly Mr. Banks has not to date written the piece on his site concerning these vehicles, so that is no help either. I'm afraid I don't go to the commendable lengths of Andrew (Headstock) in research, so I'm a bit stuck! Also I don't know for sure if my example E1291E ever made it to Maroon as some were withdrawn earlier in the '50's, I simply chose a later number in the hope these lasted longer.

 

A great rule of modelling, "the more one finds out, the less one realises is actually known"!!

 

Happy Easter,

 

John.

I did find a picture of a D.95 or D.109 on the West Higland line in the ‘50s which appeared to have no branding. I’m away today but will try to dig it out when I’m home.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

My latest O gauge Kirk is nearing completion. This is a Gresley BG. I thought I’d show it now before final touches in case I’ve missed something obvious as I’m prone to do and knowing how good you lot are at pointing things out.

 

 

 

 

 

The ends are the main finishing job. Being used to painting non corridor stock, I forgot that the ends should be teak rather than black, so they will have to catch up when I do the solebars and guard’s handrails. I’m struggling for LNER clip top buffers after the sad passing of Graham Jones of NMRS. If anyone can suggest another source of (sensibly priced) buffers I’d be grateful. Failing that, I’ll have to file down some round buffers but how I’ll then stop them swivelling in their housings I don’t know!

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

Looks very good Andy.

 

The only thing I can think of, and I don't know if this is relevant to these vehicles as I've never made one, would be alarm apparatus on the roof. I assume there isn't a separate toilet in the coach for the guard, and he used one elsewhere on the train.

 

John.

[jwealleans]

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

I don't know if this is relevant to these vehicles

No.   There was no external indicator on a BG.

[Bucoops]

Do invertrain have any stock?

 

https://invertrain.com/product/lner-clip-top-buffers/

https://invertrain.com/product/lner-clip-top-buffers-2/

 

Not sure what the difference is between the two.

[thegreenhowards]

33 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Do invertrain have any stock?

 

https://invertrain.com/product/lner-clip-top-buffers/

https://invertrain.com/product/lner-clip-top-buffers-2/

 

Not sure what the difference is between the two.

No. I have a set on order from them but they rely on NMRS and are out of stock. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

Edit: Having looked at their website is seems that one set is from NMRS and the other from ‘Haywood Railway’. I might give them a ring tomorrow and see if they have found an alternative supplier.

Edited April 11, 2021 by thegreenhowards

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Looks very good Andy.

 

The only thing I can think of, and I don't know if this is relevant to these vehicles as I've never made one, would be alarm apparatus on the roof. I assume there isn't a separate toilet in the coach for the guard, and he used one elsewhere on the train.

 

John.

Thanks,

 

I was thinking about that but couldn’t see one in the photos I was looking at. I was also struggling with how to model it. In 00 I just slap on a couple of blobs of plasticard and some .45mm wire between them but I think 0 gauge would require a bit more detail.

 

48 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

No.   There was no external indicator on a BG.

And Jonathan usefully confirms that I don't need to bother on this coach. I will still have the problem on my next coach which will be a BSK(4), so any suggestions on how to model it would be gratefully received.

 

Andy

[MikeTrice]

5 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

My latest O gauge Kirk is nearing completion. This is a Gresley BG. I thought I’d show it now before final touches in case I’ve missed something obvious as I’m prone to do and knowing how good you lot are at pointing things out.

 

Cornice plates over the doors?

[thegreenhowards]

20 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

Cornice plates over the doors?

Thanks Mike. Do you mean the rain strips which run along the roof above the cornice? If so, quite right. I’ve done that on my other Gresleys, so how did I forget on this one?! 

[MikeTrice]

Those are they.

[Bucoops]

Back to buffers - pricey though - https://www.crtkits.co.uk/product.php/2378805/

[thegreenhowards]

43 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

Back to buffers - pricey though - https://www.crtkits.co.uk/product.php/2378805/

That’s almost half the price of the kit! I’m afraid I regard that as extortionate and will wait for something more sensibly priced to come back in stock.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though.

Edited April 11, 2021 by thegreenhowards

[thegreenhowards]

The BG is now finished bar the final buffers.

 

 

I’ve done the rain strips as Mike suggested (thanks Mike) and finished off the ends and painting. Some of these coaches seem to have teak coloured wheels and some black. Can anyone enlighten me as to when each is correct?

 

As for the buffers, I’ve spoken to Invertrain and their Haywood Railway clip top buffers are being produced but they’re not imminent, so I’ve stuck some round buffers on for now and will replace with the correct ones as and when they become available.

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Long time no post!

 

Here is my main current work in progress. This is the  NMRS (ex Meteor) C12 O gauge kit. 
 

 

 

There’s still some detail and a lot of cleaning up to do and it needs a motor as the one I ordered was too big. MSC models have very kindly agreed to exchange it for a smaller version which I should get later this week.

 

As those who follow Wright Writes will have seen, I had some problems creating the curves for the cab roof. I managed to rectify that by filling the creases with high temperature solder and sanding/ filing . @Ian Rathbonesuggested annealing the brass to make bending easier and I tried that for the smokebox wrapper for which it worked perfectly. A good tip!

I’m still struggling a bit with how to attach the bogie.

The instructions are not clear but there is a lot of talk of sideways and vertical springing before a statement that they found this to be unnecessary! For now I have tack soldered the central casting in place but fully expect to have to make it move in some way. Having posed the question on the Gauge O guild forum, I think the answer will be to leave it fixed and see how it copes with my curves before deciding what to do. I will report back.

 

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

Andy,

 

Just to follow up on a post earlier, I've now done most of the work on the Isinglass 12 wheel Kitchen Car, as at the very start of your Workbench Thread, and have done a little write up and pics on my own thread as referenced below. Painting remains O/S!

 

I think you were right about the sides not turning in enough, although I've managed to mitigate this a bit by filing the ends a tad and fitting the sides to go in a bit at the bottom.

 

John.

Edited May 9, 2021 by John Tomlinson

[thegreenhowards]

Some progress on my next couple of O gauge coaches recently. Here are the sides for a BTK and a non corridor full brake painted in ‘teak undercoat’ (aka Hycote filler primer).

 

 

The full brake was a second hand acquisition in crimson which I’m backdating to 1920/30s condition.

 

It started like this. Quite a nice finish so a bit of a shame to paint it, but it was reasonably priced so a good addition to the fleet.

 

 

 

Andy

 

 

[MikeTrice]

Cornice plates over the doors????????

[thegreenhowards]

53 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

Cornice plates over the doors????????

Indeed Mike! I didn’t build this one. They will be added before final painting of the roof.