Coulsdon Works

[thegreenhowards]

4 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Have you tried Cerrobend? Quite expensive but you can even pour it into plastic models with care - I've even resorted to pouring it down the chimney occasionally.

I’d never heard of Cerrobend but, having looked it up, it looks like a possibility. Do you use a soldering iron to melt it for pouring? And is there any difference between using this and low melt solder?

 

Andy

[Bucoops]

Not saying don't use it (I do for some soldering) - but be careful with it as it contains cadmium which is a tad toxic  Wood's metal is another name for it.

[Michael Edge]

You can melt it with a soldering iron but I do it in a ladle (metal pouring ladle from Tiranti) over the gas cooker, usually when Judith isn't around!

[Tony Teague]

15 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have a question for any experts out there on how to ballast the loco. The body is pretty light and will need stuffing with lead. However the boiler only has a small hole through which to access the front as below.

I could pour liquid lead through the hole, but how would I seal it? I've heard that PVA will react with the lead and expand over time. Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

Andy

 

Andy

I'm no expert but after a disaster with lead shot / PVA on a brass kit-built loco, I now use the same lead shot but seal it with araldite.

Tony

[Michael Edge]

Don't even think about lead shot and PVA, it would expand and burst your loco apart.

[thegreenhowards]

3 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Andy

I'm no expert but after a disaster with lead shot / PVA on a brass kit-built loco, I now use the same lead shot but seal it with araldite.

Tony

Thanks Tony and Mike,

 

I’ve heard of the issue with lead shot and PVA which is why I was asking for advice. I’m not sure how I could get araldite into the front of the boiler through that little hole. The Cerrobend seems expensive to buy and to post, so I would prefer to find an alternative.   I’m thinking I might squeeze in a lot of UHU contact adhesive and then poke in strips of lead cut from roofing lead or pour lead shot. Does that sound like it might work?

 

Andy

[John Tomlinson]

On 22/03/2020 at 16:01, John Tomlinson said:

Long ago, I concluded that as the great bulk of my coaches on the layout were to be Bachmann Mk1's, I'd take their height as reference for everything else. So my few kit built efforts would be correct relative to these, and any others would be adjusted to be consistent within a rake - my rakes are generally fixed.

 

So long as the whole thing looks consistent, it works for me!

 

John.

 

On 22/03/2020 at 17:40, Headstock said:

 

I don't have any Mk1's I'm afraid, ugly looking things. However, surely it does no harm to actually know something about the thing that you purport to model, such as basic dimensions. With everything handed to so many on a plate these days, knowledge of the real railway is becoming increasingly separated from the Hobby.

I was just going over this thread and realised that I hadn't responded to Andrew (Headstock), and made myself look a real peasant into the bargain.

 

When the Bachmann Mk1 came out I did measure up and concluded as Andy has that the basic dimensions were quite sound, hence it made a fair choice as reference point. One thing that really bugs me are inconsistencies in both height from rail top to buffer middle (s/be 14mm max. for us) and overall roof height, the latter looking particularly gross if it's not consistent along a train. As we know, a lot of RTR tended historically to be on the tall side in both measures, and so needs either fettling or dumping as appropriate. When Hornby brought out their Gresleys I bought one to play with and found it sat a bit low, whilst it might be an example with the tyres worn and springs a bit soft it didn't sit well with the Mk1's and was adjusted. Realising the other shortcomings I haven't bought anymore, and at some point will build some more of my stock of Kirk's which I find a lot more convincing if flawed a bit as well (window depth, end roof profile - I can live with).

 

I think this is an area full of pitfalls, a number of RTR locos also have heights that are out, several Bachmann diesels I own have buffers too low for example and are gradually being corrected. Of course on the real thing buffers didn't align, depending on relative time out of shops on adjacent vehicles, but it still doesn't sit well IMHO on our models.

 

John.

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks Tony and Mike,

 

I’ve heard of the issue with lead shot and PVA which is why I was asking for advice. I’m not sure how I could get araldite into the front of the boiler through that little hole. The Cerrobend seems expensive to buy and to post, so I would prefer to find an alternative.   I’m thinking I might squeeze in a lot of UHU contact adhesive and then poke in strips of lead cut from roofing lead or pour lead shot. Does that sound like it might work?

 

Andy

 

Andy

I have also used lead shot saturated with super glue within vans, but you need to be careful about fumes with that amount of glue about!

In terms of araldite, I'm not sure you need to get it into the boiler through the hole, you just need to plug the hole!

Tony

[jwealleans]

I'd do it the other way round - drop either lead shot or small strips though the hole then drip either epoxy or runny superglue through to hold it in place.  It depends how liquid-tight your boiler is.

[Jon4470]

I’m faced with a similar problem with one of my locos and I plan to put epoxy onto strips of lead and push them into the boiler. It should be possible to make sure it attaches to the boiler - if necessary using a L shaped stick, or similar, to push the strip down. It might be slow....one strip at a time but hopefully will work.

 

Jon

[Headstock]

On 05/04/2020 at 13:01, John Tomlinson said:

 

I was just going over this thread and realised that I hadn't responded to Andrew (Headstock), and made myself look a real peasant into the bargain.

 

When the Bachmann Mk1 came out I did measure up and concluded as Andy has that the basic dimensions were quite sound, hence it made a fair choice as reference point. One thing that really bugs me are inconsistencies in both height from rail top to buffer middle (s/be 14mm max. for us) and overall roof height, the latter looking particularly gross if it's not consistent along a train. As we know, a lot of RTR tended historically to be on the tall side in both measures, and so needs either fettling or dumping as appropriate. When Hornby brought out their Gresleys I bought one to play with and found it sat a bit low, whilst it might be an example with the tyres worn and springs a bit soft it didn't sit well with the Mk1's and was adjusted. Realising the other shortcomings I haven't bought anymore, and at some point will build some more of my stock of Kirk's which I find a lot more convincing if flawed a bit as well (window depth, end roof profile - I can live with).

 

I think this is an area full of pitfalls, a number of RTR locos also have heights that are out, several Bachmann diesels I own have buffers too low for example and are gradually being corrected. Of course on the real thing buffers didn't align, depending on relative time out of shops on adjacent vehicles, but it still doesn't sit well IMHO on our models.

 

John.

 

Good evening John,

 

It's quite difficult to produce models that are dead on for ride height, just because the clearances on the real thing are much tighter than you could get away with in 4mm scale. I'm quite surprised that the Bachmann MK1's are apparently so spot on in their dimensions and still go around corners. This is especially intriguing as the wheels seem to be slightly too large, I may have to get hold of one and see how they have done it. I have been told that the Hornby MK1's have a better body shape.

 

With regard to Hornby Gresley carriages, most of the dimensions on these carriages are wrong, so it doesn't surprise me that they sit low. They should be slightly taller at roof height than a MK1 but the différance is very little in 4 mm scale.

 

As far as RTR locomotives are concerned, wheels and wheel flanges are generally over scale and in OO the gauge of the wheels are too close together. These elements in combination make it more likely they will catch the body at some point. Even the most detailed RTR model, aimed at a discerning hobbyist, is built with a chassis and wheels designed to go around toy train curves.

 

On spring heights, the difference between an empty and a fully loaded real carriage would not even register on the eye in 4mm scale. You might have one in a hundred carriages running low but three or four in the same rake or even in multiple rakes would be pushing it.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Headstock
clarify a point. change is to are.

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks for all your suggestions on weighting the boiler. I think it needs to be glued in place otherwise it would come out through the chimney!

 

So I think I’ll try Jon’s method first. And if that doesn’t seem secure, I’ll follow up with Jonathan’s method.

 

I’ll report back in a couple of days.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

The next coach through Coulsdon Works is a D.700 Mark 1 Kitchen Car. These were built in 1951 as part of the ‘Festival of Britain’ sets and formed the middle of a three coach catering core. The sides are Comet while the rest of the body shell is Southern Pride with Comet detailing packs for the roof and underframe. 

 

 

Not long to go now and then I’ll be able to put my 1951 ‘Heart of Midlothian’ rake together although I still have to swap my Maroon Bachmann RFO with a friends Crimson / Cream one which can’t happen until after lockdown.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

Quite a while since I posted on here, but my RSO/RK pair is now just about finished.

 

 

I’m pleased with how the RK has come out. I had a problem of excess glue on the RSO which is evident on the two right hand windows in the first picture above. I think removing the side will be too difficult, so I will probably have to live with it and run the train with the other side showing! 

 

I’m still lacking an interior for the RSO. I believe that these had loose chairs and tables. Does anyone know of a source for these?

 

Andy

[davidw]

42 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Quite a while since I posted on here, but my RSO/RK pair is now just about finished.

 

 

I’m pleased with how the RK has come out. I had a problem of excess glue on the RSO which is evident on the two right hand windows in the first picture above. I think removing the side will be too difficult, so I will probably have to live with it and run the train with the other side showing! 

 

I’m still lacking an interior for the RSO. I believe that these had loose chairs and tables. Does anyone know of a source for these?

 

Andy

Try are replica railways SO interrior. Cut it works out quickly.

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, davidw said:

Try are replica railways SO interrior. Cut it works out quickly.

David,

 

I'm all for a quick fix but are these loose seats or fixed 2+1?

 

Andy

[davidw]

5 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

David,

 

I'm all for a quick fix but are these loose seats or fixed 2+1?

 

Andy

 

Ah I just checked. Sorry they're fixed but 2+2 , though not really visible

[thegreenhowards]

6 minutes ago, davidw said:

 

Ah I just checked. Sorry they're fixed but 2+2 , though not really visible

Thanks for the idea. I may well use it in the future.

[davidw]

2 hours ago, davidw said:

Try are replica railways SO interrior. Cut it works out quickly.

REally like it by the way. I've a the later diagram 702 Rk and the RKB in maroon

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

On 12/05/2020 at 13:19, davidw said:

REally like it by the way. I've a the later diagram 702 Rk and the RKB in maroon

 

 

Thanks David,

 

Excuse my ignorance, but are they diagrams which are not available RTR?

 

I wish I could have done mine in maroon as Ford Burgundy red does the job very well. I have not found car colours for cream and the Ford Rossi Red I use for Crimson doesn’t match Bachmann crimson very well. But maroon for 1951 would not be allowed!

 

My crimson and cream are hand painted (Precision paints enamel) over Halfords etched primer and they don’t look too good close up. Hopefully they will pass on the 3 foot rule though.

 

Andy

[davidw]

45 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks David,

 

Excuse my ignorance, but are they diagrams which are not available RTR?

 

I wish I could have done mine in maroon as Ford Burgundy red does the job very well. I have not found car colours for cream and the Ford Rossi Red I use for Crimson doesn’t match Bachmann crimson very well. But maroon for 1951 would not be allowed!

 

My crimson and cream are hand painted (Precision paints enamel) over Halfords etched primer and they don’t look too good close up. Hopefully they will pass on the 3 foot rule though.

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

None are available RTR.  The Kitchen you've got is I think the 700/701. the 702 was i think a 1961/2 construction, technically just outside my period.  The RKB is an earlier build 57 I think. Their all available via comet/wizard models . I'll try to post pictures later.

[thegreenhowards]

5 hours ago, davidw said:

 

Hi Andy,

 

None are available RTR.  The Kitchen you've got is I think the 700/701. the 702 was i think a 1961/2 construction, technically just outside my period.  The RKB is an earlier build 57 I think. Their all available via comet/wizard models . I'll try to post pictures later.

Catering cars are about the only Mark 1s that haven’t all been produced RTR - some interesting vehicles out there. Mine is a D.700, one of the original batch built in 1951 for the festival of Britain sets.

[Joseph_Pestell]

On 12/05/2020 at 10:20, thegreenhowards said:

 

 

I’m still lacking an interior for the RSO. I believe that these had loose chairs and tables. Does anyone know of a source for these?

 

Andy

 

I think that Southern Pride do some. But their website is not the easiest as it lacks illustrations for many references.

[thegreenhowards]

10 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I think that Southern Pride do some. But their website is not the easiest as it lacks illustrations for many references.

I think you’re right. I’m sure they were out of stock when I ordered the sides but seem to be back in stock now. Question is, should I use p38, p39 or p40?

 

http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk

 

Andy

[Joseph_Pestell]

There are also some suitable loose tables and chairs by Preiser and some on Shapeways. But both expensive by the time you buy 48 of them.