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2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

As far as I’m concerned far too much value is placed on expensive brands these days. Plastic bags are out for me but so are Nike trainers.

 

As for airbrushes, I’m not convinced that there’s anything wrong wrong with the airbrush I’ve bought. The problems seem to have come from my use of it and I’m learning on the job. When it works it seems to do a good job. I think an incremental approach is sensible, especially for something that I’m not sure I’ll take to.
 

If you have the money to go out and blow on expensive brands which may rarely be used then be my guest!
 

In any event, let’s not fall out over this.

 

Andy

 

As for airbrushes, I’m not convinced that there’s anything wrong wrong with the airbrush I’ve bought.

 

Evening Andy,

 

You can continue to believe that as you wish. Being a fan of good old fashioned empiricism, I remain unconvinced by your conviction. I have been using airbrushes professionally as a graphic artist and photo retoucher for thirty five years. My main modeling brush is twenty five years old and is still going strong. As someone who has had to rely on such equipment for their bread and butter, I will tell you that twelve pound Chinese Iwata clones, will clog up as soon as you look at them. The interior machining is just cack, paint loves to get stuck in cack machining.

 

If you have the money to go out and blow on expensive brands which may rarely be used then be my guest!

In any event, let’s not fall out over this.

 

You don't seem to have read my post properly.  How can we possibly fall out, when you are agreeing with what I posted?

 

 I think an incremental approach is sensible

 

I think the incremental approach is b******t. If you want an airbrush, go buy a B 200 like John T's, good quality, customisable, robust, easy to maintain, cheap spare parts. Good prices can be had by looking around the web, A B 200 should last you a lifetime, unless your a thug. If you don't want an airbrush for life, stick to bog brushes and cans that rattle.

 

 

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Changing the subject to hopefully something less contentious, here are some pictures of my finished A2/3, Sun Castle. This is a conversion of a Bachmann A2 using Graeme King’s resin parts and etched valve gear. It was painted and weather using brushes - perhaps not as good as an airbrush in capable hands but I feel it’s come out OK.

 

I probably need a bit more subtlety with the weathering powders but they don’t look so ‘in your face’ in the flesh.

 

DEB51E73-1C6F-48AE-9345-50B93AE9A2D6.jpeg.7eb752581bfe07bd1e8720564d64b8ce.jpeg7EAED990-DAC6-45BA-89BD-DB2C108A26CA.jpeg.dfca41cbd68432fa0f37baf3fa81ca73.jpeg67FD8A90-1C04-42ED-BC09-92B7979CB631.jpeg.310c1964f593b082c44f617840df7a58.jpeg

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FWIW (probably not much), I tried using weathering powders for the first time a few weeks ago. I'd had them for decades, and didn't really like the idea as it sounds very messy.

 

I was very pleasantly surprised by the outcome. In my case on some Bachmann Covhops - naturally powdery I thought - the impact sat well in comparison tot he pics I used as a guide. I did however find a little goes a long way, but happily my sparing usage didn't make a mess.

 

John.

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45 minutes ago, FoxUnpopuli said:

image.png.12ed81265aafdf68f75db00d4f88de12.png

 

I see what you did there.  :D

 

Weathering works well - looks like it got washed recently, but very quickly, on a Friday afternoon!

 

 

Yes, I wasn’t sure how to make the old speedo drive but Tony Wright gave me a pointer. It’s a bit of scrap etch, a washer and a short length of handrail wire. 

 

Thanks For the weathering comment - It’s based on photos of the loco in The Power of the A2’s and one of the Keith Pirt albums which show it pretty shiny in the Summer of 1958 but with a light coating of grime from a few trips.

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Here is my latest finished loco for Gresley Jn. It is a SE Finecast K3 bought off eBay. I showed it on Wright Writes a couple of weeks ago.

 

 

It’s now been renumbered to Immingham example 61905 (thanks to John Isherwood for the prototype photo), had a few mods (such as cutting the handrails back and adding cylinder drain cocks) and been weathered.

 

94375DD2-67FC-4F5D-A34B-B7CE35E8DA80.jpeg.a4051d3b17024f94a78911e1b9a49783.jpegD11DA136-57AC-4B73-A769-AAB82E8E2F8D.jpeg.8f56305122d979e507c8191a4037151a.jpeg

C72FF28E-ED6E-425B-8963-CC6E74A064CF.jpeg.4f28fc75551bd384cb73f6efa07c1a05.jpeg

 

This was my first attempt at weathering using my airbrush and was a long process as already described. There were a couple of subsequent issues.

 

In particular, I used meths to clean up the wheels after weathering. Some of this got on the paint and reacted with an old paint layer and ‘curdled’ the surface. It was only in one part so I cleaned it off, hand painted with thin ‘roof dirt‘ and rubbed weathering powders in. It’s at the front of the handrails on the LH side and is just about visible but not too bad considering.

 

I also had some finger prints on the RH boiler sides - I did clean it first so I think they must have appeared when I was struggling with the airbrush. Anyway they’ve been cleaned off and made to look like someone’s had a half hearted attempt to clean the lower boiler.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 01/11/2020 at 15:40, thegreenhowards said:

 

 

I probably need a bit more subtlety with the weathering powders but they don’t look so ‘in your face’ in the flesh.

 

 

 

Andy,

 

You could try using much smaller quantities. Don't dip the brush into the pot. Before opening the pot, tip it upside down then back up the right way and then tap it on the table. Now, when you open the pot there will be a thin film of particles inside the lid. It's those that you pick up on the brush and apply to the model. If that isn't enough you can apply more; it's much more difficult to remove excess than it is to add a little extra.

 

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9 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

Andy,

 

You could try using much smaller quantities. Don't dip the brush into the pot. Before opening the pot, tip it upside down then back up the right way and then tap it on the table. Now, when you open the pot there will be a thin film of particles inside the lid. It's those that you pick up on the brush and apply to the model. If that isn't enough you can apply more; it's much more difficult to remove excess than it is to add a little extra.

 

Thanks Mick,

 

I did try to do that following the advice you gave on your virtual Missenden course. But I think I need to sit back and look at the overall picture before adding more. Remind me what sort of brush you were using. 

 

Andy

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27 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

I think IPA is a better bet for cleaning wheels post-weathering - but it will still take off freshly applied paint!

I suspect the paint which curdled was an old layer of varnish applied by whoever built the model originally - probably 20 years ago judging by the signature on the bottom. I’ll try IPA next time but what is the difference between meths and IPA - they’re both basically alcohol aren’t they?

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1 minute ago, thegreenhowards said:

 Remind me what sort of brush you were using.

 

My preferred weapon is a filbert. It has firm but soft bristles and a rounded end. allowing the application of pigments to be done in small or large areas depending on the angle of attack.

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56 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

I suspect the paint which curdled was an old layer of varnish applied by whoever built the model originally - probably 20 years ago judging by the signature on the bottom. I’ll try IPA next time but what is the difference between meths and IPA - they’re both basically alcohol aren’t they?

 

Well, of sorts but neither would be good with tonic!

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4 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I suspect the paint which curdled was an old layer of varnish applied by whoever built the model originally - probably 20 years ago judging by the signature on the bottom. I’ll try IPA next time but what is the difference between meths and IPA - they’re both basically alcohol aren’t they?

 

Since you asked:

 

They are both alcohols...  but organic chemistry is a big subject.


IPA refers* to a particular variety of propanol, slightly diluted with water*.  Propanols have three carbon atoms in the chain, compared to ethanol's two, and methanol's one.  The stuff you want for cleaning locos (or track, or airbrushes) is 99%+ IPA.

 

Methylated spirit is* a mix of ethanol, methanol* and some purple dye*, scents* and nasties* to make it taste horrible.

 

In my (and sounds like your) experience, meths is a fair bit more aggressive than IPA...*  Given a choice, I'd stick to IPA.  Neither are particularly good for the skin.

 

Yes, IPA in 70% form is used in hand-sanitiser - with other things like glycerin and maybe some more water.  No, it's not as good as washing your hands properly with soap.

 

If consumed, both methylated spirits and IPA are lethal, so keep them away from the mixers.

 

All of this (except the simplified comparison of how aggressive they are) is detailed further on Wikipedia.  Aside from the two solvents in question, this page gives you a broader view: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvent

 

 

* (usually)

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This loco will be my next airbrush weathering ‘victim’ but I wanted to show some pictures before I lose the gloss.

 

4D2985FC-B20F-401B-BD94-305644CC2FC8.jpeg.baf5434b6355346b3d20f4af858b8c75.jpeg950828B5-15B7-461F-BDEC-135FDE5B8EB8.jpeg.4ced88e280aa96b9eda3d57011e39f28.jpeg

 

It’s the Jamieson/ Comet V2 which I showed on here a few months ago as below.

Since then, I’ve managed to get some weight in the boiler (thanks for the suggestions) by cutting up strips of roofing lead and feeding them through the hole with plenty of evostick. It seems to have done the trick. I’ve also added tender pick ups which means it now runs beautifully smoothly (I will hide the wires after chipping) and lined and numbered it.

 

Have I missed anything obvious before weathering?

 

Andy

 

 

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3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

This loco will be my next airbrush weathering ‘victim’ but I wanted to show some pictures before I lose the gloss.

 

4D2985FC-B20F-401B-BD94-305644CC2FC8.jpeg.baf5434b6355346b3d20f4af858b8c75.jpeg950828B5-15B7-461F-BDEC-135FDE5B8EB8.jpeg.4ced88e280aa96b9eda3d57011e39f28.jpeg

 

It’s the Jamieson/ Comet V2 which I showed on here a few months ago as below.

Since then, I’ve managed to get some weight in the boiler (thanks for the suggestions) by cutting up strips of roofing lead and feeding them through the hole with plenty of evostick. It seems to have done the trick. I’ve also added tender pick ups which means it now runs beautifully smoothly (I will hide the wires after chipping) and lined and numbered it.

 

Have I missed anything obvious before weathering?

 

Andy

 

 

 

Afternoon Andy,

 

I would query the tender. Do you have a picture of that loco, tender and livery combo on 60866?

 

A couple of Small details on the body, that probably don't matter to much to yourself. The cab ventilators should be offset, so that one slides forwards and the other back when closed, the sand box fillers look like Thompson / Peppercorn types, they shouldn't have the protective shields, the chimney opening looks a bit constricted and the whistle is out of gauge.

 

I can't see a lot of the chassis but you have wrong valve guide on the two to one motion, the type that was only fitted to the first batch of locomotives in LNER days. Is the tender missing some steps?

 

Your K3 looks to be quite nicely built by someone but it could do with some front steps.

 

I like the speedo bracket on your A2/3 but the reverser should be straight. A replacement reverser cover plate would improve the model a great deal. I don't know what Bachmann were thinking of with that one.

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5 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

This loco will be my next airbrush weathering ‘victim’ but I wanted to show some pictures before I lose the gloss.

 

4D2985FC-B20F-401B-BD94-305644CC2FC8.jpeg.baf5434b6355346b3d20f4af858b8c75.jpeg950828B5-15B7-461F-BDEC-135FDE5B8EB8.jpeg.4ced88e280aa96b9eda3d57011e39f28.jpeg

 

It’s the Jamieson/ Comet V2 which I showed on here a few months ago as below.

Since then, I’ve managed to get some weight in the boiler (thanks for the suggestions) by cutting up strips of roofing lead and feeding them through the hole with plenty of evostick. It seems to have done the trick. I’ve also added tender pick ups which means it now runs beautifully smoothly (I will hide the wires after chipping) and lined and numbered it.

 

Have I missed anything obvious before weathering?

 

Andy

 

 

I think it looks very nice. Pity V2s were painted green after the '56 livery changes. A double chimney one in clean lined black would look wonderful.

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2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Afternoon Andy,

 

I would query the tender. Do you have a picture of that loco, tender and livery combo on 60866?

 

Afternoon Andrew,

 

Thanks for your comprehensive reply.  I have a photo of the loco on the turntable at KX (Tuffery’s V2 book) with a flat sided tender as opposed to a stepped out one if that’s what you mean. I get confused about the subtle variations of division plates etc. within the flat sided tenders.

 

Quote

 

A couple of Small details on the body, that probably don't matter to much to yourself. The cab ventilators should be offset, so that one slides forwards and the other back when closed, the sand box fillers look like Thompson / Peppercorn types, they shouldn't have the protective shields, the chimney opening looks a bit constricted and the whistle is out of gauge.

Useful points but mainly in the ‘next time’ camp I think. I might have a go at the whistle and chimney. Is the whistle just mounted too high or is it the wrong type? I assume you mean the chimney needs boring out?

 

Quote

I can't see a lot of the chassis but you have wrong valve guide on the two to one motion, the type that was only fitted to the first batch of locomotives in LNER days. Is the tender missing some steps?

Tender has lost one step - it was there not long ago as you can see from the bare brass. Now I need to play hunt the step.

 

Quote

 

Your K3 looks to be quite nicely built by someone but it could do with some front steps.

Good point. I’ll see to that.

 

Quote

 

I like the speedo bracket on your A2/3 but the reverser should be straight. A replacement reverser cover plate would improve the model a great deal. I don't know what Bachmann were thinking of with that one.

I don’t think I know what a reverser cover plate is! But I think this model has gone as far as I’m going given that Hornby are about to release a (hopefully) much better one.

 

I have to admit to having mixed feelings when I see a long response from you. I think you manage to find me more homework than Tony Wright and it does give me a bit of a sinking feeling but I know it’s good for me! I do appreciate the time you put into making these comments so thank you.

 

Andy

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Since you have Tuffrey's book - look carefully at the valve guides on the front of the cylinder block.  The type on your model (and the old Bachmann) are the early type fitted to the first five locos (4771-5/60800-60804).

 

It's something I need to buy (or print) a few sets of as I have lots of old Bachmann V2s in a queue for detailing.  Eventually.

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6 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

Afternoon Andrew,

 

Thanks for your comprehensive reply.  I have a photo of the loco on the turntable at KX (Tuffery’s V2 book) with a flat sided tender as opposed to a stepped out one if that’s what you mean. I get confused about the subtle variations of division plates etc. within the flat sided tenders.

 

Useful points but mainly in the ‘next time’ camp I think. I might have a go at the whistle and chimney. Is the whistle just mounted too high or is it the wrong type? I assume you mean the chimney needs boring out?

 

Tender has lost one step - it was there not long ago as you can see from the bare brass. Now I need to play hunt the step.

 

Good point. I’ll see to that.

 

I don’t think I know what a reverser cover plate is! But I think this model has gone as far as I’m going given that Hornby are about to release a (hopefully) much better one.

 

I have to admit to having mixed feelings when I see a long response from you. I think you manage to find me more homework than Tony Wright and it does give me a bit of a sinking feeling but I know it’s good for me! I do appreciate the time you put into making these comments so thank you.

 

Andy

 

Brave heart Andy,

 

would you prefer a sycophant?

 

The first 65 V2's had the low fronted tender, with set back front bulkhead and tool boxes mounted atop and deep cut-outs to the coping plate and side sheets, as on your model. This was identical to that in the last K3's.

 

18055779_1826756464251824_8559955231260725310_o.jpg.dccf51e52fccbbee167cb8b95f48aeea.jpg

 

Ironically, from 60866 onwards, the V2's were outshopped with tenders with high fronted steped bulkheads, mounted further forwards but taller than the coping plate. They had cupboard door style tool boxes mounted low down either side of the shovelling plate. They required a smaller cut out in the coping plate and side sheet as seen on 4843 below.

 

278371027_37633121_2038974269696708_7622796897123565568_o(2).jpg.eecfe43449f0ab3f77781844b377b39c.jpg 

 

The original 20 low fronted tenders were swapped around between other locomotives during their careers. I would be interested in seeing the picture you refer too, as I only have photographs of the high fronted type coupled to 60866, in BR lined black with spindly creature.

 

Green Arrow had a high fronted tender for most of its BR condition. The current low fronted tender was paired with the locomotive during preservation, in order restore it to as built condition. Anachronistically, it retrains the post war pony truck and modified front frame arrangement.

 

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1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Brave heart Andy,

 

would you prefer a sycophant?

 

The first 65 V2's had the low fronted tender, with set back front bulkhead and tool boxes mounted atop and deep cut-outs to the coping plate and side sheets, as on your model. This was identical to that in the last K3's.

 

18055779_1826756464251824_8559955231260725310_o.jpg.dccf51e52fccbbee167cb8b95f48aeea.jpg

 

Ironically, from 60866 onwards, the V2's were outshopped with tenders with high fronted steped bulkheads, mounted further forwards but taller than the coping plate. They had cupboard door style tool boxes mounted low down either side of the shovelling plate. They required a smaller cut out in the coping plate and side sheet as seen on 4843 below.

 

278371027_37633121_2038974269696708_7622796897123565568_o(2).jpg.eecfe43449f0ab3f77781844b377b39c.jpg 

 

The original 65 low fronted tenders were swapped around between other locomotives during their careers. I would be interested in seeing the picture you refer too, as I only have photographs of the high fronted type coupled to 60866, in BR lined black with spindly creature.

 

Green Arrow had a high fronted tender for most of its BR condition. The current low fronted tender was paired with the locomotive during preservation, in order restore it to as built condition. Anachronistically, it retrains the post war pony truck and modified front frame arrangement.

 

Thanks you Andrew. That is the best explanation of the difference between tender types that I have read - your pictures really help. I’ve always got confused between stepped out coping plates - the ugly ones which came second hand and cut outs to the coping plates. As a result I mentally grouped all the non stepped out ones together. But I now understand. I’m afraid that as you suspected, I’ve got it wrong for 60866.

 

So I have two choices:

1. Choose a different number; or

2. Fit a different tender.

 

I have a spare Bachmann tender of the correct type (I think) but it would be a shame to lose the all brass look of this loco. I don’t suppose there’s a list anywhere of which locos carried which tenders on which dates?! Otherwise I’ll be searching through photos for a 35A or 34A V2 with a low fronted tender. And it’s not always that obvious from photos taken from a low angle.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

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38 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks you Andrew. That is the best explanation of the difference between tender types that I have read - your pictures really help. I’ve always got confused between stepped out coping plates - the ugly ones which came second hand and cut outs to the coping plates. As a result I mentally grouped all the non stepped out ones together. But I now understand. I’m afraid that as you suspected, I’ve got it wrong for 60866.

 

So I have two choices:

1. Choose a different number; or

2. Fit a different tender.

 

I have a spare Bachmann tender of the correct type (I think) but it would be a shame to lose the all brass look of this loco. I don’t suppose there’s a list anywhere of which locos carried which tenders on which dates?! Otherwise I’ll be searching through photos for a 35A or 34A V2 with a low fronted tender. And it’s not always that obvious from photos taken from a low angle.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

 

Good evening Andy,

 

don't worry to much, I've just got hold of proper set of buffers for my dia. 210 twins. The original twin had to be completed with the incorrect buffers due to exhibition deadlines. They will be coming off, the new ones will be going on and a bit repainting and blending will be required. The same will be done to the second twin prior to painting. I have still to decide on the final configuration of regulator box. The final position may only be decided after completion and sometime in the future, when it is possible to get to the NRM again. I've have also just scrapped the Kirk body on a BG and rebuilt it in brass, Kirk is now consigned to history in my own fleet. There's nothing wrong with a bit of alteration and modification after original completion.

 

The tenders with stepped out coping plate are basically  the ex NER design, with the coal rails replace with a coping plate. If you look at the details carefully, the brake gear etc is pure NER. They are the prototype of all the six wheel group standard types. The familiar cab and tender shape of LNER, came directly from the NER, blended with GN chassis, running gear, boiler and running board.

 

A couple of people do pretty decent brass kits of the GS tender that would suit your purposes. Bradwell are complex but brilliant, Phoenix have the DMR range and Brass masters have Finney.

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I’ve put the V2 on hold while I try to find a suitable candidate for renumbering. Instead, I’ve concentrated on finishing off another project which is A3, 60046, Diamond Jubilee.  This was created from a Hornby ‘Minoru’ front and ‘Miles Beevor’ back to create one of the five A3’s which carried a streamlined non corridor tender.

 

C7491DBA-8308-44B1-8596-81D9A064AC6F.jpeg.335c0997a0ee008d9b8bc3fa6a14e03c.jpeg3D270CD8-C9F9-41A7-8173-84A8E78C1862.jpeg.72e82fabac4f9a5a0645a0d2d4dd131a.jpeg7EB362A5-CE53-42EC-BB45-D22002AB6649.jpeg.fb038258a3b076c21fff0b996c3da6c0.jpeg

 

I’ve weathered her to represent a ‘cared for but not polished for a few days’ look. She’s now ready for service on Gresley Jn.

 

The question i now have is what to do with the other halves?

 

04ACC1FD-DCD3-43A7-AA50-9E4E76D7CB5B.jpeg.971a0d9ea7833ca94d4f55f0dba709ad.jpeg

 

I’m thinking of creating 60106, Flying Fox with the loco chassis and tender and a spare A3 body I have. The A4 body may just become a swappable body to allow me to ring the changes.

 

Andy

 

 

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I too wish to recreate Flying Fox, but in 1946 guise as 106 - so I'd be interested in that journey.

 

I bought a nice S/H late BR 60017 Silver Fox created from a Bachmann A4.  It needs some renovation but it was built with care and I'm not sure I'll try taking it back to blue.  After I've brought it up to spec I think I'll either gift it to my Father or see if I can swap it on RMWeb for an earlier LNER Pacific.

 

It's a shame so few of the RTR Pacifics are numbered in the 1946 ranges.  For A4s the valance removal makes me a bit nervous, but I have a few GBL A4s stashed away to try.  Still, that makes it modelling, as opposed to collecting.

 

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5 hours ago, FoxUnpopuli said:

I too wish to recreate Flying Fox, but in 1946 guise as 106 - so I'd be interested in that journey.

 

I bought a nice S/H late BR 60017 Silver Fox created from a Bachmann A4.  It needs some renovation but it was built with care and I'm not sure I'll try taking it back to blue.  After I've brought it up to spec I think I'll either gift it to my Father or see if I can swap it on RMWeb for an earlier LNER Pacific.

 

It's a shame so few of the RTR Pacifics are numbered in the 1946 ranges.  For A4s the valance removal makes me a bit nervous, but I have a few GBL A4s stashed away to try.  Still, that makes it modelling, as opposed to collecting.

 

I’ll keep you posted on mine. 
 

I agree that the immediately post war period is under represented. I suspect because film was still difficult to come by so there is little photographic evidence and austerity made it all a bit drab and dirty.

 

 

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