brianusa Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 The original post didn't sound like it came from a 17 year old. More like some old codger in his 60s reliving his mis spent boy hood. The Lionel O scale(!) version suffers the same problems but it is acknowledged a toy and accepted as such. No matter what improvements can be made, it will never fit in with Hornby tinplate if you are critical. But, pretend you're a kid again and it looks OK! Brian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2018 Just had a thought; have you tried looking on sites like Shapeways to see if anyone has done a 3D printed bodyshell conversion for Thomas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2018 Also whilst browsing I noticed that the G scale version has most of the things you’ve picked up on corrected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire2865 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Also whilst browsing I noticed that the G scale version has most of the things you’ve picked up on corrected. But the Bachmann G "scale" model suffers OO-itis. They are actually 1:22.5 running on 45mm track. Its actually bigger than the original TV models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluebellModeller Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) Honestly, I think your mistake is trying to make a OO model of Thomas. If this is for an independent project, why not try to go whole hog and build a Gauge 1 loco in the same way the original was. Im sure you could find reference to what parts they used. The mechanisms were Marklin, and I believe the bodys were scratched from plastic. Wouldnt be the hardest thing in the world, though sourcing a 30 year old Marklin chassis may be difficult. That's way above of my pay grade. Plus, people have done it before. Many modelers have modded the Bachmann Thomas but none have nailed every single detail (which is what I'm trying to do). The original post didn't sound like it came from a 17 year old. More like some old codger in his 60s reliving his mis spent boy hood. Is that a good thing? I have noted the age of the poster prior to my comment. No reason not to dream big however. Im not much older than the OP and I was doing similar to him at 17. Ive since quickly spiraled into the largest scenic modelling scale and its honestly a lot easier than working in 4mm scale. While he may still want to go through with the Bachmann modification, and power to him if he does, I was simply offering an alternative as from his post it sounds like what he really would want is a screen accurate model. In my opinion, nothing would scream screen accurate more than a G1 loco. But if the Bachmann model is already owned (not actually mentioned in the post), then I could see the desire to go through with it as originally planned. So basically the reason I'm doing it in 00 is because its the most accurate (not a great pool to pick from as you can tell as Hornby is my only other option and thats not even a close match for the TV model) and easily available RTR loco I can place on my eventual layout as a memento of the project. Plus as I stated above Gauge 1 is extremely pricy and way more difficult, and I know because there's a fellow on twitter @Diesel10TV who did exactly what you're suggesting! Go have a look. Trevor, as noted above this is a junior modeller trying to develop some modelling skills on a presumably already owned Bachmann model..... The model is mint. I purchased it for this very purpose. I still intent to create a layout based in real life. But as you said I want to grow my skillset and I am very fond of Thomas; plus, if I screw up beyond repair, the model was only 45 USD. It's a win-win for me. Just had a thought; have you tried looking on sites like Shapeways to see if anyone has done a 3D printed bodyshell conversion for Thomas? Funny you ask- I've reached out to several people proposing that very idea. There still exists, however, the problems with the chassis, separately fitted details, and paint color, as well as the face. All of which I am still eager to hear your thoughts on! Keep the feedback coming folks! Edited July 12, 2018 by BluebellModeller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 If you're going to enjoy being a member of this group, you really do need to get a sense of humour. ... Regards, John Isherwood. I'm amazed by this. I haven't previously thought of JI as a humourist. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 12, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2018 Now now kids, play nicely. BM - do you have much in the way of modelling tools? Have you done much modification to models before? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluebellModeller Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 I don't have many tools but depending on price I can get what I need. I'm not super well versed but I've done it a few times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Swapmeets and model train shows usually have cheap tools available. For mail order check Micromark.com. They have a useful 'Railroad Modelers Tool Chest' which would be a great start to then add to as required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) That's way above of my pay grade. Plus, people have done it before. Many modelers have modded the Bachmann Thomas but none have nailed every single detail (which is what I'm trying to do). Funny you ask- I've reached out to several people proposing that very idea. There still exists, however, the problems with the chassis, separately fitted details, and paint color, as well as the face. All of which I am still eager to hear your thoughts on! Keep the feedback coming folks! You're setting yourself one hell of a task, BM. You realise that due to the scale difference it's just not going to be possible to get a perfect 1:1 match, right? Just making sure. Sometimes you do have to settle for "as close as possible". Speaking of match, I've found a blue in my collection that seems pretty close to the paint on the original S1 Thomas model. Vallejo Model Air, 71.008 RLM65 Blue. Might not be a perfect match but it's far closer that the base colour. As stated, you're setting yourself a big task here, but I'm willing and (hopefully) able to help you achieve maybe not a perfect match but a much, much closer one. Again, I'd start with the face from a Hornby Thomas as I already stated earlier on this thread. It's pretty much a dead ringer for the TV model's one. Make sure it's one of the more recent ones though, the original Hornby Thomas from the 80s has a similar problem facially to the Bachmann model. Edited July 13, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I'm amazed by this. I haven't previously thought of JI as a humourist. You clearly haven't read enough of my posts then - plenty of comments received there. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted July 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) This is probably a bit different, but may I suggest something like tin? Your principal material is free, highly workable, and a tin opener, along with a good pair of scissors, are your first tools. It's not about making A1 models, it's about learning techniques, how to get the shape & form of your desired object. If you make a mistake, get another can.... After a while, you get inventive.... "How do I get 'that' to do this?" As you progress, certain 'must have tools' improve your own skills & abilities. Files, punches, straight edge, small anvil, that sort of thing. Remember that a Corned beef (chipped beef) tin will surrender nearly a square foot of material. Don't worry about appearance & finish: That'll come later. Remember that these are transferable skills. A person who can visualise, and work with his hands,is a highly prized asset in this day & age. There is a great multitude of tutorial material on Youtube. The great advantage is you skip a bit, just rewind! Me? I'm currently making UK-style 3-link couplings in 4mm scale. My prime material is paper clip staples. Each chain link is about 2.5mm, and there's 12,000 of them.... Good luck & happy modelling. Ian. Edited July 13, 2018 by tomparryharry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) This is probably a bit different, but may I suggest something like tin? Your principal material is free, highly workable, and a tin opener, along with a good pair of scissors, are your first tools. It's not about making A1 models, it's about learning techniques, how to get the shape & form of your desired object. If you make a mistake, get another can.... After a while, you get inventive.... "How do I get 'that' to do this?" As you progress, certain 'must have tools' improve your own skills & abilities. Files, punches, straight edge, small anvil, that sort of thing. Remember that a Corned beef (chipped beef) tin will surrender nearly a square foot of material. Don't worry about appearance & finish: That'll come later. Remember that these are transferable skills. A person who can visualise, and work with his hands,is a highly prized asset in this day & age. There is a great multitude of tutorial material on Youtube. The great advantage is you skip a bit, just rewind! Me? I'm currently making UK-style 3-link couplings in 4mm scale. My prime material is paper clip staples. Each chain link is about 2.5mm, and there's 12,000 of them.... Good luck & happy modelling. Ian. Hmm. Interesting. My pick would be to buy as many different Thomas shells as possible and pick-and-mix bits of them until you get something close. How I normally work. Does require a lot of filler, a razor saw, a vice and lots of files though. Edited July 13, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Personally I think learning scratch building and modifications using styrene as easier and far more useful than using tin. Especially when using a base model probably made of styrene. Styrene (eg Evergreen) comes in a great range of shapes and sections. Yes reclaimed tin is cheap but hard to get flat and requires joining and soldering skills. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Personally I think learning scratch building and modifications using styrene as easier and far more useful than using tin. Especially when using a base model probably made of styrene. Styrene (eg Evergreen) comes in a great range of shapes and sections. Yes reclaimed tin is cheap but hard to get flat and requires joining and soldering skills. The big problem is the lack of accurate drawings. Thomas is little different to a lot of early locos in that only some dodgy paintings or sketches exist or other people's models which are of questionable accuracy. Thomas / Sodor is little different to many former railway locos and lines, we can't measure up the stock or stations because they no longer exist, so extrapolating from photos is our only option. Its awkward enough to altr a pre existing model to match but getting on for impossible to start from scratch. As regards materials. Tinplate is cheap and produces deep and painful cuts while being a sod to glue and difficult to solder. Not my favoured material. Brass is nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 It'll be very difficult to do what you want. The model is a very tight fit. I converted mine to DCC and the decoder wasn't particularly easy to fit in. Easier than Emily or Hornby's Stepney though! It might be worth using the Bachmann model as a test bed for getting the proportions right, then re-printing them as panels that you can shape properly to get the desired look/colours. Not entirely sure what people said about the face either (but I am possibly looking at the wrong model!). The TV series has more of a grey toned face, I agree, but this Hornby one isn't close: And the current one isn't much closer if any than bachmanns offering either: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted July 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 16, 2018 As for the paint colour, I would hazard a guess that an off-the-shelf car paint rattle-can would have been used by the original model makers. The original model was made by David Payne, and the model making team at Clearwater Productions formed their own company, Pennicott, Payne, & Lillie Ltd. before the second series. The company Pennicott Payne Ltd appears to be still making models, while David Payne is special effects supervisor on many films, up to 'Transformers: The Last Knight' in 2017. It may be worth trying to contact him. Also note, the original Thomas model had 40 different interchangeable faces, with different expressions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestTom Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I have a suggestion that may be a little off the wall, but it always seemed to me that the Hornby clockwork Thomas was a far better match to the TV model than their electric model, and I also think it's a better match than the Bachmann one. As I see it, the major faults are that the whistles are painted on to the cab rather than separate fittings and the face doesn't have moving eyes (but is, again, a much better sculpt than the electric Hornby or Bachmann versions). They used the same bodyshell for the push-along model that came in the Great Race train set, and it can be obtained pretty cheaply second hand. If you don't mind the lack of moving eyes, it seems to me that the main issue is the whistle. I don't know what's commercially available that's a good match, but as the body is self-coloured, you could probably remove the painted-on version with T-Cut. I should point out that I don't know how well the Bachmann chassis would fit into the Hornby body, so this whole idea may be foolishness incarnate, but it's a suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Looking at pictures of Hornby clockwork Thomases, there are 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 versions. Did they both have the same body? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderforge Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) It would surprise me if they fitted an 0-6-0 electric chassis on the same body as a clockwork 0-4-0 chassis, but looking at google images it appears the front wheel is forward in the splasher and rearward on the 0-4-0, so maybe. Frustratingly I have owned both locos but a couple of decades separate them! The Hornby Thomas I own now (electric 0-6-0) has a much better face than the one in SirTophamHatt’s post, I’ve not seen that rather nasty specimen before. Edit: I don’t think they could be the same moulding because the clockwork had a hole for the key in the side and a reverse lever in the roof. Edited July 16, 2018 by Thunderforge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestTom Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) I'm almost certain the 0-6-0 and 0-4-0 clockwork Thomas had the same body - certainly they look identical to me in photos. They devised an 0-6-0 mechanism for a revamp of the range, but as far as I can tell, the body is identical. I can't imagine that Hornby considered it worth the cost of a total retool. One pitfall that now occurs to me is that the body does have a hole in the splasher for a key, so the ex-Great Race push-along Thomas may be the one to go for. Also watch out for the 0-4-0 electric Thomas, which Hornby produced for a battery-operated set. It's a pretty bad model of Thomas and just not a very good loco generally - firmly aimed at the toy end of the market. Why they didn't just put an electric chassis under the clockwork body, as with Percy, Bill, Ben and Toby, I cannot imagine. Now I come to think of it, I wonder if the electric Toby mechanism would fit under the clockwork Thomas body? Edited July 17, 2018 by HonestTom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluebellModeller Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 Have a look and let me know your thoughts. Had to mirror the image to get the right comparison but shouldn't be an issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) Sorry, ignore me Edited July 22, 2018 by Corbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Not certain if this helps: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) Not certain if this helps: 11ietk2compare.jpg Well it SEEMS far closer... That's a start. Edited July 22, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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