Zimo Decoders

[SteveS]

Hello All

 

I'm looking for some help with the decoder installed in the Minerva Models Pannier tank engine.. I understand the decoders are a product of a company called ZIMO. I think this company is either New to the USA or not in the USA market. 

 

Anyhow I have an older Digitraxx Empire Builder system with a DT 400R throttle used for programing.. I want to adjust the volume on the engine to my liking. Zimo say I need to use F27 and F 28 to adjust the volume. Here's my dilemma the DT 400 only goes up to

F-12. 

 

If I go to a newer throttle DT 500R I then need to purchase a UR 92 as the DT 500 is a duplex radio . Then I need to change out my UT-4R hand held throttles as they won't work with the UR-92, A rather expensive amount of new equipment just to adjust the volume on an engine. I'm not a big fan of sound even though I bought the Pannier because of the sound system in it.

 

Any help or ideas????

 

Thanks

 

Steve

[michaelp]

Can a friend adjust the volume to the level you want?

 

You may get a better response if ask the mods to move your post to 'DCC Sound'

Edited July 14, 2018 by michaelp

[Ian Morgan]

Or you could buy a Sprog, connect it to your PC and run the DecoderPro part of JMRI to do all your DCC decoder programming away from the layout. It is so much easier than trying to program CVs on most proprietory command stations/handsets, and you get to save all the settings for your complete loco roster on the PC.

[pauliebanger]

Hello All

 

I'm looking for some help with the decoder installed in the Minerva Models Pannier tank engine.. I understand the decoders are a product of a company called ZIMO. I think this company is either New to the USA or not in the USA market. 

 

Anyhow I have an older Digitraxx Empire Builder system with a DT 400R throttle used for programing.. I want to adjust the volume on the engine to my liking. Zimo say I need to use F27 and F 28 to adjust the volume. Here's my dilemma the DT 400 only goes up to

F-12. 

 

If I go to a newer throttle DT 500R I then need to purchase a UR 92 as the DT 500 is a duplex radio . Then I need to change out my UT-4R hand held throttles as they won't work with the UR-92, A rather expensive amount of new equipment just to adjust the volume on an engine. I'm not a big fan of sound even though I bought the Pannier because of the sound system in it.

 

Any help or ideas????

 

Thanks

 

Steve

 

 

Steve,

 

The use of F27 and F28 is intended to be a simple to use 'live' volume control.

 

However, you may still adjust the overall volume by changing the value in (reprogramming) CV266. Not quite as convenient as the live volume control for those with access to the full range of F keys, but very useful if you do not.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

Creator of the Soundproject in your Minerva Pannier

[robertc]

Hi Steve, it is often possible to change the Function button allocation on some decoders. Read the manual and see, that might be cheaper option.

e.g.

https://www.zimo-dcc.ch/Beschreibungen/ZIMO%20Function%20Key%20Mapping.pdf

 

This is the problem with manufacturers going outside the NMRA spec.

cheers

 Bob

[SteveS]

Steve,

 

The use of F27 and F28 is intended to be a simple to use 'live' volume control.

 

However, you may still adjust the overall volume by changing the value in (reprogramming) CV266. Not quite as convenient as the live volume control for those with access to the full range of F keys, but very useful if you do not.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

 

Hi Paul

 

I guess this is where the problem lies. Digitrax only lets me go up to CV 256.

Creator of the Soundproject in your Minerva Pannier

[Oldddudders]

All new throttles will work fine with your existing UR on infra-red. If you have anything like line of sight this is very practicable.

[Suzie]

Hi Steve, it is often possible to change the Function button allocation on some decoders. Read the manual and see, that might be cheaper option.

e.g.

https://www.zimo-dcc.ch/Beschreibungen/ZIMO%20Function%20Key%20Mapping.pdf

 

This is the problem with manufacturers going outside the NMRA spec.

cheers

 Bob

 

There is no getting outside the NMRA spec here - it is just Zimo implementing the extended NMRA spec for F13-F28 in their decoders and Digitrax not doing it in their throttle.

[SteveS]

There is no getting outside the NMRA spec here - it is just Zimo implementing the extended NMRA spec for F13-F28 in their decoders and Digitrax not doing it in their throttle.

 

No actually here DT 402 and upward are capable of F13-30 now. My problem is to upgrade my DT 400R to something better would require me to go to a duplex radio signal.to do that makes all my throttles because they are a simplex radio signal. To do that requires the UR-92 radio receiver and new or upgrade throttles, which is an expensive option for me,

 

I’m not a real fan when it comes to sound, yes it’s nice and some of it does sound nice, especially in steam. To me diesel sounds don’t seem to sound quite right. I was a driver for almost 40 years so mr ears are quite attuned to certain diesel sounds. But then that’s another completely different topic of discussion.

[pauliebanger]

No actually here DT 402 and upward are capable of F13-30 now. My problem is to upgrade my DT 400R to something better would require me to go to a duplex radio signal.to do that makes all my throttles because they are a simplex radio signal. To do that requires the UR-92 radio receiver and new or upgrade throttles, which is an expensive option for me,

 

I’m not a real fan when it comes to sound, yes it’s nice and some of it does sound nice, especially in steam. To me diesel sounds don’t seem to sound quite right. I was a driver for almost 40 years so mr ears are quite attuned to certain diesel sounds. But then that’s another completely different topic of discussion.

 

Steve,

 

ZIMO decoders are amongst the best available anywhere. Might be new to you, but the company has been making digital model rail control since 1979 (longer than most other brands) so they know their business.

 

They use advanced features but everything is backwardly compatible. That's the sign of a quality product. Your gear is not fully featured? -  No problem, ZIMO will not let you down.

 

Ignore the snipes regarding NMRA, ZIMO are fully compliant, it's just that they add so much extra to what is a very low level of requirement to satisfy NMRA.

 

There are several ways to work around you problem with access to higher F keys and CVs beyond 256.

 

One is to use ZIMO Input mapping to operate the F27 and F28 keys from keys which you are able to access. This is unique to ZIMO - it is not simple remapping - a very powerful, non-destructive way to reallocate your F keys. Unfortunately, you need to be able to access CVs in the range 400 to 429 so this is not the most appropriate choice for you.

 

So Zimo decoders have a way to recognise your programming inputs at the low numbers you are able send and interpret them as higher CV numbers which will allow you to access CV266 and adjust the overall volume to your preference. You can use the same technique to access all CVs if required. (but let's not run before we can walk).

 

Here's what you do.

 

Programme CV7 = 110, then CV166 = X (Where X is the value you wish to enter to CV266. The project default value is 80 so I suggest starting around 40 to reduce the volume then make further adjustments to suit your needs. Although the range of available values for CV266 goes up to 255, for all practicable purposes, distortion sets in so keep to lower than 130 for the sake of your equipmet and eardrums.)

 

Once CV7 has been set to 110, all subsequent CV number inputs will add 100 to the actual number input, provided you do not cancel the command (using the command CV7 = 0) or power down the decoder (which will also cancel the comand) . This means that once entered, you can use CV166 to access CV266 as many times as you wish until you have set the appropriate value for you in CV 266.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[davefromacrossthepond]

Here are some places that may be able to assist.

 

Here's a link top Zimo-USA

 

http://zimo-usa.com/dealers/

 

Here's some links to some places in the US that deal with Zimo:

 

http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=28

https://www.trainli.com/zimo-sound-dcc-c-288

 

Disclaimer - I haven't dealt with any of these companies, just did a quick google search.

[SteveS]

Tha

Here are some places that may be able to assist.

 

Here's a link top Zimo-USA

 

http://zimo-usa.com/dealers/

 

Here's some links to some places in the US that deal with Zimo:

 

http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=28

https://www.trainli.com/zimo-sound-dcc-c-288

 

Disclaimer - I haven't dealt with any of these companies, just did a quick google search.

 

Thanks for the he help. Actually one of the dealers is maybe 30 minutes from my place

[pauliebanger]

Tha

Here are some places that may be able to assist.

 

Here's a link top Zimo-USA

 

http://zimo-usa.com/dealers/

 

Here's some links to some places in the US that deal with Zimo:

 

http://www.dcctrain.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=28

https://www.trainli.com/zimo-sound-dcc-c-288

 

Disclaimer - I haven't dealt with any of these companies, just did a quick google search.

 

Thanks for the he help. Actually one of the dealers is maybe 30 minutes from my place

 

Have you tried the CVs I gave you? Have you been able to reduce the volume to suit?

[SteveS]

Have you tried the CVs I gave you? Have you been able to reduce the volume to suit?

Not yet gotten busy with other stuff. Will let you know tho

 

Steve

[MarshLane]

Not yet gotten busy with other stuff. Will let you know tho

 

Steve

 

Steve,

No real help, but just to say Paul is (in my view) not only one of the best in the business when it comes to sound, but also one of the best in customer support.  If you ever have an issue with any of his sound projects just drop him a line and I am sure he'll help out.  As you've seen on here, very knowledgable and friendly too!

 

Good luck with altering the CVs and hope you enjoy your pannier sound!

 

Rich

[SteveS]

Not yet gotten busy with other stuff. Will let you know tho

Steve

Hi Paul.

 

Finally got around to playing with the setting you talked about. It did not want to co operate with me. Seems when I changed CV TO 110 everything just shut off and died. Not sure what I did. I did contact Chris and I was able to reset the entire decoder back to factory settings. At least everything came back alive and worked.

 

Once I programmed the engine number to a 4 digit number it worked fine except it ran backwards. I changed CV 29 to a value of 7 it would not work with a 4 digit address but would work properly with a 2 digit address with the correct direction.

 

Then I tried to adjust CV’s 2,5, and 6 . When I did that it quit running again. Back to factory reset again. Changed address to a 2 digit number changed CV 29; to a value of 7 so direction would correspond with throttle. For the moment it works just fine now. Sound included.

How did it get messed up? I’m not sure. Most likely something I’m not doing something right. Just my thought though I think one should enclose a listing of what all the different settings are when a new model is released. I have spent the better part of 3 hours trying to get the engine to run. I’m not technically savvy when it comes to this DCC stuff. I’m really don’t care for having to have a computer when it comes to model trains. I love DCC it has made wiring a layout much easier.

 

I guess there are certain aspects of the hobby I’m not too terribly fond of. OK enough of me wining. I’m appreciative of the help everyone has supplied me. Thank you all

 

Steve

[pauliebanger]

Hi Paul.

 

Finally got around to playing with the setting you talked about. It did not want to co operate with me. Seems when I changed CV TO 110 everything just shut off and died. Not sure what I did. I did contact Chris and I was able to reset the entire decoder back to factory settings. At least everything came back alive and worked.

 

Once I programmed the engine number to a 4 digit number it worked fine except it ran backwards. I changed CV 29 to a value of 7 it would not work with a 4 digit address but would work properly with a 2 digit address with the correct direction.

 

Then I tried to adjust CV’s 2,5, and 6 . When I did that it quit running again. Back to factory reset again. Changed address to a 2 digit number changed CV 29; to a value of 7 so direction would correspond with throttle. For the moment it works just fine now. Sound included.

How did it get messed up? I’m not sure. Most likely something I’m not doing something right. Just my thought though I think one should enclose a listing of what all the different settings are when a new model is released. I have spent the better part of 3 hours trying to get the engine to run. I’m not technically savvy when it comes to this DCC stuff. I’m really don’t care for having to have a computer when it comes to model trains. I love DCC it has made wiring a layout much easier.

 

I guess there are certain aspects of the hobby I’m not too terribly fond of. OK enough of me wining. I’m appreciative of the help everyone has supplied me. Thank you all

 

Steve

 

Steve,

 

The workaround I gave you works. I used it may times with all sorts of DCC controllers. Perhaps you were pressing 'enter' at the wrong points.

 

CV 29 is used to set parameters of many things. (One of which is the 4 digit address parameters). Stabbing in a random number will almost always give results you are not expecting.

 

The way to change the direction parameter (alone) is to first set up everything else to work correctly, including 4 digit addressing. Then, read and note down the current value in CV29.

 

If this value is an odd number, subtract 1 from that number, but if it is and even number add 1 to it. Then use the revised number as the value in CV29. This ensures that only the direction parameter is changed.

 

Your model will then run in the correct direction.

 

Best regards

 

Paul

Edited July 28, 2018 by pauliebanger

[SteveS]

Steve,

 

The workaround I gave you works. I used it may times with all sorts of DCC controllers. Perhaps you were pressing 'enter' at the wrong points.

 

CV 29 is used to set parameters of many things. (One of which is the 4 digit address parameters). Stabbing in a random number will almost always give results you are not expecting.

 

The way to change the direction parameter (alone) is to first set up everything else to work correctly, including 4 digit addressing. Then, read and note down the current value in CV29.

 

If this value is an odd number, subtract 1 from that number, but if it is and even number add 1 to it. Then use the revised number as the value in CV29. This ensures that only the direction parameter is changed.

 

Your model will then run in the correct direction.

 

Best regards

 

Paul

Paul

 

First off thank you kindly for the help you have offered. I guess I’ll try again this evening and see if I can get it right.

 

Regards

[SteveS]

Paul

First off thank you kindly for the help you have offered. I guess I’ll try again this evening and see if I can get it right.

Regards

Paul

 

After messing about for 4-5 hours I finally got the Pannier to co operate with me. Yes the CV 7 trick worked nicely. I had to set CV 29 to a value of 39 to get the direction correct with the throttle. Anyhow long story short it’s working correctly with a nice volume.

 

Regards

 

Steve

[pauliebanger]

Paul

 

After messing about for 4-5 hours I finally got the Pannier to co operate with me. Yes the CV 7 trick worked nicely. I had to set CV 29 to a value of 39 to get the direction correct with the throttle. Anyhow long story short it’s working correctly with a nice volume.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

Glad you are sorted and happy.

 

Now, you know that you can change the balance of the sounds by setting the volume of each sound individually by CVs don't you.............  ?

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[SteveS]

Glad you are sorted and happy.

 

Now, you know that you can change the balance of the sounds by setting the volume of each sound individually by CVs don't you.............  ?

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

After getting this all sorted out. Went to the Digitrax site and did some looking at throttles while I have a DT 400R , I found out the DT402 and DT 500 series throttles will allow access beyond CV 255.they will go up to CV 1024 if I read it correctly.

 

Steve

[Oldddudders]

After getting this all sorted out. Went to the Digitrax site and did some looking at throttles while I have a DT 400R , I found out the DT402 and DT 500 series throttles will allow access beyond CV 255.they will go up to CV 1024 if I read it correctly.

Steve

Yes, and as I pointed out earlier they will work with the Infra Red sensor you already have in your UR.

[muchfiddling]

I had an identical setup to yourself. DC!00 and four DT400 handsets. I did'nt want the fag of pulling out and setting up my laptop just to set the sound on a decoder using JMRI.

I've now retired my DCS100 and I'm usng a Zephur plus which has all the functions and more than sufficent amps to run all (8 loco's) my loco stock which is all sound. All my loco stock have Zimo decoders which I like a lot.

Should I need further amps in the future I have the DCS100 and a DB150 to use as boosters.

regards