Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[tebee]

Article from Model railroader about the principles of Transition curves

 

 

 

 

 

[tebee]

and 2 sets of templates 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tebee]

Instructions on how to use above templates 

 

 

 

[DonB]

Thanks ,tebee, for digging out that MR article.

Not sure that it's helped Martin to make decisions about laying out his track,

But it's nice to know that a few of the brain cells are still able to recall things from years ago, even if I get the decade wrong. Wonder what I had for breakfast??

 

Never worked to EM standards so didn't know of their booklet.

At a glance,the MR article looks a simpler approach and similar to Stubby's suggestion, certainly Martin will not need to bother with super-elevation on his curves at the speeds at which his trains will be travelling and I assume that super-elevation on curves was introduced after WW1 on main lines.

 

Edit... reading the MR article states that super-elevation on curved track preceded transition curves, but does not give a time frame.

Edited November 7, 2018 by DonB

[Nearholmer]

Using transition curves will undoubtedly do all the things Northroader says (well, most of them), and my gut-feel is that there is absolutely no need to do more than 'eye-ball' them, given the near-absence of dynamic forces at work with featherweight 00 vehicles moving at snail's pace, but .....

 

Might be worth looking at pictures, and especially plans, of minor railways to reassure yourself that they did not always follow textbook practice. I think this might be because very early-on nobody had written the text book or even arrived at rules of thumb (I'd be interested to know when all this stuff entered PWay textbooks), and later because economy triumphed over perfection, with limitation of speed being the way to square the circle. Certainly some photos show quite 'crazy' alignments on well-worn Light Railways, and the use of dead-straight switch-rails, with resultant abrupt change of direction, seems to have been considered acceptable.

 

In short, for your sort of railway, you may not need to be too precious about this subject.

[Martin S-C]

Thanks tebee, that is very very kind of you. Very useful stuff.

As Kevin says I may not use the calculations but seeing the necessary end result will definitely guide me in how I approach this.

Given that City of Truro allegedly touched 100mph in 1906 I feel sure that super-elevation and easements were in the engineers textbook before then.

25mph is my speed limit and at places it will be 15mph (on the branch and through some curves mainly). Nothing more than 10mph in the colliery. Even so I think what makes a model appealing is smoothness of track geometry so even if it may not have been a technical necessity I shall still try to smooth things out as much as space allows.

Meanwhile, the loco coal wagon fleet is all loaded and ready to roll...

[Denbridge]

With light loads and at the maximum permittend speed of 25mph, light railways were rarely engineered with much in the way of super elevation, transition curves or much of the finesse of their 'big' cousins. Creating too much of that would destroy the light railway charm.

[Nearholmer]

Light Railways built under the 1896 Act were not, by statute, limited to 25mph. They could be operated at whatever speed the particular LR Order specified (some did, some didn’t) and/or the Inspecting Officer seemed safe.

 

There was Light Railway provision in an earlier Regulation of Railways Act, and that did set a statutory 25mph limit, but it was barely used because it didn’t remove the real burden, the cost of a parliamentary bill, which was the key function of the 1896 Act.

 

This is very commonly, almost universally, misunderstood.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Denbridge]

Light Railways built under the 1896 Act were not, by statute, limited to 25mph. They could be operated at whatever speed the particular LR Order specified (some did, some didn’t) and/or the Inspecting Officer seemed safe.

There was Light Railway provision in an earlier Regulation of Railways Act, and that did set a statutory 25mph limit, but it was barely used because it didn’t remove the real burden, the cost of a parliamentary bill, which was the key function of the 1896 Act.

This is very commonly, almost universally, misunderstood.

i realise that, but the very nature of most light railways would preclude speeds of more than 25mph having been built using the easements allowed by the act.

[Nearholmer]

Hmmm....... a fair few light railways were built in pretty flat areas, and had long straight stretches.

 

But, your point about not-very-transitioned curves is well made. Lignes a grande vitesse these were not.

[Denbridge]

Hmmm....... a fair few light railways were built in pretty flat areas, and had long straight stretches.

But, your point about not-very-transitioned curves is well made. Lignes a grande vitesse these were not.

yes, but usually had very basic formations and track, combined with basic signalling and often lots of flat crossings, often ungated made any semblance of speed highly impractical

[St Enodoc]

Instructions on how to use above templates 

 

ModelRailroader _ Oct-1969, Page 1_Page_60_Image_0001.jpg

Figure 1B is the one to foucs on. Make the offset (P) about 0.5 inch and the transition length (L) about two bogie coaches, as per my earlier post. That will give you the appearance you are looking for and minimise any risk of buffer-locking, etc.

[tebee]

yes, it's important to realize that transition curves are not just about high speed, they minimise the difference in the offset of a pair of wagon ends as they enter the curve, preventing buffer lock or, more likely in our case, derailments caused by the couplings becoming too far out of alignment. 

[Martin S-C]

Yes, John, that confirms that I thought the simplest and shortest transition would work.

Ten minutes on hands and knees atop the foam rubber garden kneeler with long spirit level and tape and I've squared off five feet at one end. Should easily get the rest done tomorrow. I'll mark out suggested baseboard edges and joins with tape.

 

[Martin S-C]

The freelance 4-wheel luggage brake is finished though I am not sure what I think of it really. As a kitbash/bit of fun it was a success and I learned a lot but the lining was a small disaster and I think it is really just too short. A scale 3 or 4 feet more would have produced a more realistic looking van. It may get retired into the engineering fleet as a crew van if I find something better proportioned to replace it.

 

Somewhat annoyed with myself as well that I didn't really plan properly the lettering sizes I needed for my coach fleet and the beautiful transfers made for me by Fox are too big. Company lettering that is not carried within the waist panel just looks wrong. Grrr.

Concerning the garage conversion all is now finished. I just need to get the interior painted but its been a bit wet and windy here recently.

I haven't marked out any more of the floor grid because I am thinking it would be a waste of effort to draw the track plan on the floor since its not transferable to the baseboards, hence actually useless as a tool to aid with tracklaying. I am still pondering buying lining paper to hand draw it or sourcing a print company who can print the track plan life-size and that won't require me to remortgage my home.

 

[Martin S-C]

Pretty terrible models these 90s Hornby things with their clunky mouldings and that dreadful over-scale wood grain effect they used for a time, but as you can see there is one very good reason I had to have a rake of these. The Dapol wagon was a bit better but needed renumbering and the lettering over-painting as I don't like the way Dapol print their PO wagon liveries. The writing seems too faint to me. Crediton is a weeny bit far away from my railway location but I suppose there could just about be a reason for the company to buy Forest coal over another area's output.

Longitudinal floor plank mouldings. Why, Hornby design person, why? They did at least put planking representation on the sides and ends.

 

Couplings changed. The insides look a bit bare.

 

Basic iron bracing added to the doors inside and the floors covered up. The Dapol floor has a huge hole in it where the retaining screw to hold chassis to body to plastic load goes in. I put a piece of 5 thou plasticard in scribed with 3 planks to hide this.

 

No.27

 

No.25

 

No.21

 

No.26

 

Off to the colliery to collect a load.

[Nearholmer]

Hard to resist 'own name' PO wagons, isn't it? And, after your treatments, they will look excellent as part of a scene. 

 

Individual items that aren't proto-perfect often still contribute very positively to an overall picture.

 

The van I rather like, but if you are unsure about it, do what real railways seem to have done with such things: put it against the stops at a terminal platform, and leave it there as an overflow parcels and general gubbins store. It might be a good place to keep bunting that only comes out for big occasions, and the station masters very prized bicycle. I think that the IoMR (maybe MNR) example of a 4W full-brake only survived to preservation for that reason.

 

One day, you may decide that it has grown on you.

[Annie]

That all sounds very familiar Martin.  Back in the day I spent time improving Hornby PO open wagon bodies as well with fixing the daft floor planking and adding internal ironwork.  Mine ended up on scratchbuilt underframes and really I suppose with all the effort it would have been simpler to scratchbuild the entire wagon, but then there's the problem of having to paint the wagon livery and all the lettering on the sides in a consistent manner over several models of the same wagon so it doesn't look like a mad 8 year old got at with a paintbrush.

[Martin S-C]

Can you spot my mistake with the luggage van?

How does the guard look along the side of the train?

 

I can't believe I missed that until after it was finished, weathered, photographed... and I'd cropped and resized the photo and uploaded it. Only then do I notice my omission.

[Nearholmer]

That's what the word 'Duck-it!' was invented for.

[Annie]

A small as the luggage van might be it looks to be very much a light railway/minor railway item of rolling stock.  I'd be perfectly happy to have something like that on my (digital for Trainz) Hopewood Tramway.

[Martin S-C]

Following a fascinating discussion about Lledo die-cast vehicles on Edwardian's thread I managed to secure, via e-bay, this little bundle for only £4 plus £3 postage. It includes the tram, pantechnicon and bus that all seem to offer the most potential in 1/76th scale, all horse-drawn.

[Joseph_Pestell]

The freelance 4-wheel luggage brake is finished though I am not sure what I think of it really. As a kitbash/bit of fun it was a success and I learned a lot but the lining was a small disaster and I think it is really just too short. A scale 3 or 4 feet more would have produced a more realistic looking van. It may get retired into the engineering fleet as a crew van if I find something better proportioned to replace it.

 

Somewhat annoyed with myself as well that I didn't really plan properly the lettering sizes I needed for my coach fleet and the beautiful transfers made for me by Fox are too big. Company lettering that is not carried within the waist panel just looks wrong. Grrr.

 

Concerning the garage conversion all is now finished. I just need to get the interior painted but its been a bit wet and windy here recently.

 

I haven't marked out any more of the floor grid because I am thinking it would be a waste of effort to draw the track plan on the floor since its not transferable to the baseboards, hence actually useless as a tool to aid with tracklaying. I am still pondering buying lining paper to hand draw it or sourcing a print company who can print the track plan life-size and that won't require me to remortgage my home.

 

Dsc02476.jpg Dsc02477.jpg Dsc02478.jpg Dsc02479.jpg

 

Sorry, only just seen this.

 

Cheapest way locally for me to get big prints is not a print company but the local architects' office.

[DonB]

Also came across this when I had a FAT. FINGER moment....... https://www.printed.com/services/paper-types-card-stocks

[Annie]

Have you lost a wagon Martin?