Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[RedGemAlchemist]

16 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

This is how my layout suddenly acquired a handful of Matchbox Models of Yesteryear that I don’t really need.

 

I find that all c1870-1920 non-military “tech” has a special appeal because, while it is often very definitely ‘styled ‘, the styling doesn’t make any serious attempt to hide ‘the works’; it is readily understandable “tech”.

 

Military “tech” of the period similarly has a special power to terrify, it speaks of a sort of naked, Gothick  violence that nightmares are made from. Modern military kit is N times more destructive, but a lot of it actually looks quite elegant, and hence less disturbingly threatening, at first glance.

Have a couple of those models myself. I like them but have no idea whatsoever what to do with them.

And I get what you mean there. Seen a few old WWI era tanks and some of them are pretty nightmare fuel.

Edited April 16, 2019 by RedGemAlchemist

[James Harrison]

Personally I rather like pre-1914 military tech, especially warships. I visited the War Museum North years ago and was struck by a large scale model of HMS Warrior (1905). Basically every inch of deck space was covered with guns, smokestacks or ventilators. Rather beautiful in a way.

[Martin S-C]

1 hour ago, dunwurken said:

IIRC PDH said that his Hanson cabs came from cereal packets.   He also used some Campbell's Scale Model whitemetal kits  from the States but these are H0.  He also wrote and illustrated the article 'Motor Vehicles for Pre-Grouping Layouts' in the Jan 1952 RM.   Can provide scanned copy if required.

Many thanks. I have that article scanned, a really useful collection of information.

I have since checked out the Roden models and they are beautiful too. I am thinking the American FWD lorry and the Vauxhall ambulance might make useful additions. They are pretty pricey though.

[Martin S-C]

28 minutes ago, James Harrison said:

Personally I rather like pre-1914 military tech, especially warships. I visited the War Museum North years ago and was struck by a large scale model of HMS Warrior (1905). Basically every inch of deck space was covered with guns, smokestacks or ventilators. Rather beautiful in a way.

The same is true of aircraft for the first 15 to 20 years after heavier than air flight began. Looking at some of the WWI scouts (fighters) and especially the bombers, they are incredible machines.

And pre-dreadnought battleships and cruisers have a special beauty - that whole era from HMS Warrior in 1860 until the all big gun recipe was finally realised in 1906 is a fascinating period of technological development and gave rise to some very weird designs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Hagen#/media/File:S.M._küstenpanzerschiff_Hagen.jpg

[Nearholmer]

If you have a mind to instantly bankrupt yourself at any time, then you might want to look into collecting tinplate toy/model gunboats made during that period ....... they are absolutely beautiful pieces of commercial model making, many of them huge, and fitted with clockwork or steam motors to allow them to be sailed in the local pond. The German toy makers reproduced all of the latest battleships, ours, theirs, Japanese, French, American etc, but survivors are few and "highly sought after", which is dealer-talk for ludicrously costly.

 

Here is a fairly plain one https://www.historytoy.com/lehmann-672-st-vincent-toy-tinplate-clockwork-warship-grey

 

They made Zeppelins, aeroplanes, cannons etc too, even exploding military trains, long before Lionel picked-up on the idea and Triang licensed it to create Battlespace in the 1960s.

 

Google "tin battleship" to get distracted!

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Martin S-C]

Wonderful stuff. That "St Vincent" model is apparently based on Germany's first dreadnought battleship class, the Nassaus:



We were talking about alternative traction recently for a banker engine and the 19th century railways FaceBook group just had this posted:



I like that you can see a vague hint of a British Railways Class 08 about it.

[RedGemAlchemist]

Wow. That's an interesting beast. 

[Nearholmer]

That’s absolutely marvellous - haven’t seen that one before.

 

You might also consider this beast, which Mr Self and I have been researching. http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/ouestair/ouestair.htm

[Martin S-C]

Wow. Superb stuff, and nice clear drawings as well.

I think i shall go for an experimental loco of some kind, even if it turns out I don't need a banker. I just love those early internal combustion experiments and that French battery loco really has my creative juices flowing.

[Nearholmer]

Further reading and a good photo of the batlok here https://journals.openedition.org/rhcf/816

 

the weirdest thing about it is the location of the traction motors ...... very vulnerable indeed.

[RedGemAlchemist]

You know Douglas Self? Cool!

[Nearholmer]

I wouldn't say that I know him, but I'm quite deeply into early electrically and internal-combustion powered motive power for railways, so our interests cross and anything I find that looks unusual enough for his site, I pass on. Studying these two topics often throws up other stuff from the years when multiple options for non-steam motive power were being pursued, and no clear winners had yet emerged.

 

The history of IC motive power is comparatively poorly documented, and therefore interesting to research: there is one very good American book, and a couple of good German books, plus Webb's book about British-built locos, but each of them really only examines facet, largely from the perspective of one country, so the broad story isn't laid out anywhere in an accessible form. As an instance, I still can't state with certainty, after a decade of delving, exactly when the first IC-powered rail vehicle was built, and I have a lead that I haven't yet found time to pursue which suggests that it might have been as early as the 1820s (yes, that early). Electric motive power is far better documented, and I've only been able to add recherché detail to that story.

[RedGemAlchemist]

Fair enough. Not really my area to be fair, I'm pretty much steam exclusive for the most part, but sounds really interesting nonetheless. 

[Martin S-C]

Progress over the last two days. Still slow painstaking work with lots of fussy measuring, gradients, bits of board, legs, supports, blah, blah.

 

Yesterday we did some more on the Crown Timber siding corner. The high level (+7") board was installed where the loco coaling stage will be and the board for the embankment of the north end of the river bridge was placed, with its gradient. We cut the upper board for the Armisford Mill southern section which sits at +5" and the +7" board that will support the entry line into Nether Madder (that will go to the right of the drill) but these were not fitted in place as we need to finish the lower level boards that carry the two hidden storage loops of the circuit. Before we could do that we needed to build the incline.

 

The drill is on the coaling stage and the sanding block is in the basement of Armisford Mill. The Crown timber siding will be about where the ply upright is with the scribble on.

 

Today we tackled the gradient for the lower level circuit on the south side of the layout and started by going back to the west side of Green Soudley. Here the circuit branches off the main line that goes into Green Soudley via a turnout set in a tunnel behind the curved engine shed (see plan - said shed will be removable for access to this turnout). The circuit track then descends from the +5" level to connect to the +2" level of the storage loops under Armisford Mill. The complexity is that above this gradient is the +8" level of the carriage sidings. The approach track for these drops to +7" where the loco turning triangle is sited. So we have a grade from +8" to +7" above a grade at +5" dropping to +2" - a double deck arrangement.

The right hand end of the section concerned, looking SE.

 

Neil suggested we use four 3.5" bolts to both support the two gradient boards and fine tune their separation. The two gradients do they commence at the same point. Here's the upper gradient in place descending from the carriage sidings at right and a coach doing a clearance test at the crest of the grades up to (right) and down from (left) of the Green Soudley entrance turnout (shown loose to the right of the coach).

 

Same view without the coach showing the start of the gradient down to Armisford (red arrow). In the photos the nearer gradient looks steep but this is an illusion caused by the board carrying it curving towards the camera and is probably made worse by the wide angle lens.

 

H-frames used to support the +7" loco turning triangle level (which is not a gradient) with the horizontal supports descending to carry the deck of the gradient of the circuit below it. The string guided us in placing the gradient support blocks.

 

Taut string method in use again to determine the exact gradient.

 

The module that carries the highest points of the structure is detachable, not intentionally so, it just happens that is how it got built. We induced the start of the gradient with the front right bolt with the middle nut further down the thread. The test clearance coach use a few pics above shows there is just room between the bolt and the saw cut for a train to pass.

 

Location where the "summit" module lives.

 

Summit module in place. Work has started on the deck of the lower level grade down through the H-supports.

 

The deck of the lower level (aka circuit) grade in place (except for this end of it where the camera is). The rise is 3" from the camera to the point it is covered which is ~9 feet away. The tops of the H-supports are all level and will carry the board for the +7" Nether Madder station section, as will the ply upright on the right.

 

Today's area of interest in red. As mentioned, the curved loco shed at Green Soudley (or maybe just its roof) will be removable with the retaining wall that conceals the track behind it attached, so that this piece will lift out/off to allow the track to be cleaned.

 

I'm very pleased with Neil's work today. It was a real carpentry problem caused by my late changes to the design and he came up with some excellent problem-solving ideas.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Martin S-C
EDIT: rewrote bits of description to clarify.

[chuffinghell]

Wow! It’s looking great 

[Nearholmer]

It certainly is!

 

Fire detection and prevention?

[Stubby47]

1 hour ago, chuffinghell said:

Wow! It’s looking great 

 

Whilst I agree with your post, your forum name was the first phrase that sprang to mind

[Martin S-C]

32 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Fire detection and prevention?

Erm... none

Maybe I ought to look into that...

Neil is coming back for three more days last day of April and first two days of May so we both hope we can get the last of the carpentry finished. After that comes... track! And wiring! Then... testing! Hahaha!

BTW, this weekend will be a year since I moved to Peterborough and first looked at the garage as potential for a model railway room. Those who have been following this thread from the early days will remember that when I first opened the door I was greeted with this.

 

 

Happy 1st birthday to the NM&GSR project.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Martin S-C
Added first anniversary comments.

[calvin Streeting]

very nice. love the many levels, to create some great views.  

[Nearholmer]

I hope you will find a way to incorporate that standard lamp.

[Martin S-C]

It has sadly long departed to the great standard lamp style lounge in the sky.

 

EDIT: Note also lower left of last pic, stack of G scale stuff with KLR road van/brake van prominent.

Here's a bunch of my G scale wagons running at a friends garden railway about 12 years ago. I still have all these, and 4 engines, I mainly disposed of locos and the more foreign coaches.

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Nearholmer]

Substantial railway, and a substantial train - I think it would be nose to tail on my little line.

 

Pity about the lamp. It would be the ideal thing under which to sit and read those 1950s Railway Modellers.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Pity about the lamp. It would be the ideal thing under which to sit and read those 1950s Railway Modellers.

While wearing a cardigan and smoking a pipe...

[wiggoforgold]

7 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Erm... none

Maybe I ought to look into that...

Neil is coming back for three more days last day of April and first two days of May so we both hope we can get the last of the carpentry finished. After that comes... track! And wiring! Then... testing! Hahaha!

BTW, this weekend will be a year since I moved to Peterborough and first looked at the garage as potential for a model railway room. Those who have been following this thread from the early days will remember that when I first opened the door I was greeted with this.

 

 

Happy 1st birthday to the NM&GSR project.

Did the previous owners leave that for you? It's many years since I did any conveyancing, but didn't the vendors understand the concept of "vacant posession"?

[south_tyne]

It's really coming on Martin, you must be really pleased with the progress. Things are really taking shape and the layout is coming to life