Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Martin S-C]

Big event today, the golden spike was hammered home at 5:10pm this afternoon. There had been beery celebrations earlier with Neil when the NM loco turning triangle was laid. We started laying track on 11th April, so three months and two days.

Some wiring up remains to be done as both main termini remain unpowered and the reverse loop module is yet to arrive but the next stage is to install all the point motors and build the control panels. In itself as big a job as track laying.

 

NM loco turning triangle being eased in with lots of cautious bending and chopping of track. The alien mother ship has landed on the GS approach tracks.

 

Triangle laid, fan of loco shed and works roads to the left. Main line enters from left to access platforms via the double slip with various turnouts being added for the goods yard entry.

 

Loco shed and works within the triangle. Goods storage sidings and headshunt to the left.

 

Goods storage sidings, headshunt. loco works.
 

Main pointwork of NM all laid.
 

Overall view towards NM stop blocks. Coggles Causeway in the foreground.
 

Green Soudley entry with two road engine shed. Brewery and greaseworks sidings in the background.
 

GS overall view.
 

The whole scene. Between the two stations on the lower level behind GS station will be the the Wye & Aight Canal, various canal-related industries and beyond, rising up the hill an extensive townscene a la John Ahern (I hope).

Edited July 13, 2019 by Martin S-C

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Big event today, the golden spike was hammered home at 5:10pm this afternoon. There had been beery celebrations earlier with Neil when the NM loco turning triangle was laid. We started laying track on 11th April, so three months and two days.

Some wiring up remains to be done as both main termini remain unpowered and the reverse loop module is yet to arrive but the next stage is to install all the point motors and build the control panels. In itself as big a job as track laying.

 

NM loco turning triangle being eased in with lots of cautious bending and chopping of track. The alien mother ship has landed on the GS approach tracks.

 

Triangle laid, fan of loco shed and works roads to the left. Main line enters from left to access platforms via the double slip with various turnouts being added for the goods yard entry.

 

Loco shed and works within the triangle. Goods storage sidings and headshunt to the left.

 

Goods storage sidings, headshunt. loco works.
 

Main pointwork of NM all laid.
 

Overall view towards NM stop blocks. Coggles Causeway in the foreground.
 

Green Soudley entry with two road engine shed. Brewery and greaseworks sidings in the background.
 

GS overall view.
 

The whole scene. Between the two stations on the lower level behind GS station will be the the Wye & Aight Canal, various canal-related industries and beyond, rising up the hill an extensive townscene a la John Ahern (I hope).

Nice work Martin (and Neil). What are you using to reverse the polarity at the triangle?

[Schooner]

Sometimes the *like* button isn't enough:

 

Exceptional work on your inspirational layout, Martin. Please accept my congratulations for finishing the trackwork, it's some achievement and must be a great feeling, and my envy...for everything

 

All the best for the works to come,

 

Schooner

Edited July 13, 2019 by Schooner
...a damned dangerous inspiration!

[Martin S-C]

13 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Nice work Martin (and Neil). What are you using to reverse the polarity at the triangle?

Its the Tam Valley Auto Reverse unit. I'll post up some pictures when it gets installed which should be this week.

https://www.digitrains.co.uk/shop-by-brand/tam-valley-depot/dfj003u.html?fbclid=IwAR3xld54ZKhL4rNBQtwy5pTUSbyfooCC62WLOHvXfOGA51MsB4czbC7n3Q4
 

12 hours ago, Schooner said:

Sometimes the *like* button isn't enough:

 

Exceptional work on your inspirational layout, Martin. Please accept my congratulations for finishing the trackwork, it's some achievement and must be a great feeling, and my envy...for everything

 

All the best for the works to come,

 

Schooner

Many thanks Schooner. As I have said before, if anyone is coming near Peterborough and would like to visit and have a cuppa and a look at and chat about the layout, people are always welcome. Just drop me a PM.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Martin S-C

[St Enodoc]

24 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

Its the Tam Valley Auto Reverse unit. I'll post up some pictures when it gets installed which should be this week.

Thanks Martin. Let us know how you get on. I haven't decided yet how to control the triangle at Treloggan Junction.

[chuffinghell]

Very impressive Martin looking great  

 

I imagine you’re feeling good about how things are going 

 

 

[Martin S-C]

Hi Chris,

My mood is a bit mixed at the moment. A few little niggles have begun to come up and there's a few places where the track will need fettling. The double Y point/slip thingy at Snarling let me down after the first installation but on Friday Neil spent a long time working on it, adding the copperclad and soldered central sleeper piece as well as adjusting the gauge and slope of the thing. We eventually pulled and propelled trains over it in every direction the signals will allow and we got wagons propelled into the exchange siding without any derails which was encouraging as last week I kept getting flanges lifting due to uneven rails. Yesterday I even got my six-wheeled brass S&DJR brake van to go through it which I never thought it would. Its very unlikely the 20 ton brake would even be used on trains that serve that siding but its encouraging to know it will travel across the slip in that direction.

The timber of the layout is settling down and its clear that its shifting about as almost daily there's something new and interesting going on! Obviously its a lot warmer now than when construction started but Neil and I seem to be constantly adding supports, strengthening pieces and such to some of the ply boards which seem to like bowing up in the middle and drooping at the edges.

 

The other issue that is making me a bit unhappy is the gradients. This is simply down to my poor planning. I have run a few trains and it seems that 8 wagons plus brake is asking too much. There are a couple of things to try before I go down the route of banking but as one of the grades is up from the hidden loops under Armisford Mill that one is the bigger problem as there is no place to attach a banking engine from.

Most irritating for me is that I bought a number of locos last year with sound fitted and these were okay at the time, but after being in storage (warm dry conditions inside the house) I have had a lot of failures of sound, mostly this seems to be rubbish speakers and speaker failures and I have decided I won't touch Hornby TTS products again, nor will I ever buy a loco with factory fitted sound or have shops like Hattons or Rails fit sound as their workmanship just isn't up to my standards. Now I have to face the expense of taking about 6 locos up to Digitrains in Lincoln and getting the speakers replaced and in some cases the sound decoders as the factory fitted ones are, quite frankly, rubbish.

Another bothersome issue is couplings. I have a lot of kit built stock and when I built them the couplings seemed okay on the workbench when tested against the Bachmann wagon that I use for all my height checks but it seems there is no such thing as a standard above-rail-height for tension hook couplings since Bachmann locos vary so much, not to mention the different heights of Oxford Rail, Hornby, Dapol, etc, etc. Add my own kit builds into this mix and I have a growing box of wagons whose couplings need attention... already!

But apart from all that - which I suppose is simply normal for the life of a person who models railways - everything is fine!

[Stubby47]

I have most of these problems on Tinners,  you have my sympathy.

[chuffinghell]

Sorry to hear you’re having these issues/niggles

 

Hopefully you’ll get it sorted

 

its a big project so don’t let these niggles take away from the fact it’s all looking very impressive 

Edited July 14, 2019 by chuffinghell

[Nearholmer]

The wood changing size and shape business is something I've had minor troubles with, even given the generous tolerances of Coarse 0, and I'm convinced that the main issue is variable humidity. The nearest thing to a cure seems to be to heavily prime/undercoat everything, which presumably reduces the rate at which the wood exchanges water with the atmosphere.

 

It is something that never seems to get mentioned in articles or books, except in respect of exhibition layouts, which seems odd.

 

Anyway, eye on the prize; I'm sure you'll sort the teething-troubles out.

[Martin S-C]

Its all good for experience and I really am in no position to complain. The wood issue is a bit perplexing as the amount of insulation that went into the garage walls, floor and roof means its very cool in there in summer when outside is very humid, especially this last week or so when its been very thundery. I suppose the wood is just naturally drying out. I have a thermometer in there and keep an eye on things. The temperature starts out in the mornings at about 18 Celsius but has risen to 23 at the end of a day with two of us working in there with a laptop and power tools running. I have had the air con unit running a good bit which drives the temperature back down to 19 or so by evening.

The couplings thing is just one of those eternal model railway "fun aspects" and apart from it being a chore to correct several wagons its not really a thing to complain about. I am still aware there could be a major system change eventually so its something I'm not too bothered about.

Loco speaker/decoder cost... well, a lesson learned. I will change my buying habits from now on!

And yes, "teething troubles" is a good way to look at it. I am sure these are just minor road bumps on the route to success.

[Martin S-C]

There hasn't been a great deal of progress over the last few days. I've sketched onto the baseboards the basic scenic outlines of major features and some buildings which has helped me get a proper sense of scale of some of the industries and settlements.

 

Here's Witts End with a few scenery items loosely placed. The tin shed is the Bachmann corrugated barn. The white marks on the legs show where I plan to saw 20mm off to bring it down to a height suitable for use as a basic Titfield style loco shed.

 

I've also begun experimenting with Celotex for the terrain, placing blocks and hacking some basic shapes to get an idea for landforms. Its the first time I've worked with Celotex and its pretty horrible material, I'm making sure I do all the cutting and sanding outside, however it is easy to work with as long as you don't breathe while doing so.

 

What the film and video game people call 'concept art' I think. The cutting that leads to Witts End with a raised field on one side and a retaining wall on t'other.

 

The village of Witts End scribbled onto the baseboard with a suggested station building. The company is getting more and more impecunious the longer I think about what their magnificent railway empire might look like. In the background the slopes of the valley of the infant River Aight take shape.

 

Another view of the valley. The embankment in the foreground will be a much gentler affair than that thin block of Celotex suggests. I am not sure why that narrow piece got left there. Useless photographer's assistant... mutter...

 

Blocked-in shapes for the Wood Distillation works and its boundary fence.

 

General scrawl denoting the proposed shape of Catspaw Quarry.

 

Layout of Green Soudley loco shed, signal cabin and Ledwardine brewery. The brewery buildings are the Bachmann offerings and they might fit in - just. If I do use these - and any other resin buildings - I plan to repaint some features such as doors, etc so they don't look like every other one from the same mould, and weather them.

 

I've been playing about with buildings to get some idea of town layout. The resin buildings will be interspersed with scratch built ones to fill the gaps and this is by no means a final layout - just playing around with shapes and styles for now.

 

Coggles Causeway sketched out.

 

Seeing if some commercial buildings will fit the loco works site. The two road shed will probably be used with a bit of sawing up. The wooden shed at left won't go there, but might be cut up to make up another part of the loco works complex.

 

Part of Snarling village.

 

Snarling station.

 

Water mill and Snarling coal merchants siding.

 

Scenic treatment around the crown timber siding sketched in.

 

Likewise the Nether Madder station buildings. I decided to not go for over-track goods sheds anywhere due to the size of such structures but will use small lock-up sheds on loading banks in the style of the one at Madderport on the MVR. The platform stop blocks here and at Green Soudley will be trimmed back a little. I laid track all the way to the baseboard edge initially to ensure I had enough room in the loco release for a 4-4-0, and it turns out there's plenty of room.

There are cattle docks at the three termini but not elsewhere on the NMGS network. There is no dairy or beef farming in the Forest that I'm aware of and therefore much of the time the cattle wagons will convey sheep. I have imagined a slaughterhouse somewhere at Nether Madder and therefore cattle would be brought in via rail for that customer, though just post-great war herds could still be driven on the hoof to market over quite long distances. North of the Forest in the lower lying regions on the west bank of the Severn towards Worcester there is dairy farming and some traffic might reach the NMGS network from there. I am growing increasingly unhappy however with a choice of a dairy as a rail-served industry at Snarling and am considering changing it to something else. The question is, what... unless its the aforesaid slaughterhouse.

[BWsTrains]

On 15/07/2019 at 02:47, Martin S-C said:

Its all good for experience and I really am in no position to complain. The wood issue is a bit perplexing as the amount of insulation that went into the garage walls, floor and roof means its very cool in there in summer when outside is very humid, especially this last week or so when its been very thundery. I suppose the wood is just naturally drying out. I have a thermometer in there and keep an eye on things. The temperature starts out in the mornings at about 18 Celsius but has risen to 23 at the end of a day with two of us working in there with a laptop and power tools running. I have had the air con unit running a good bit which drives the temperature back down to 19 or so by evening.
 

Hi Martin,

 

sorry to hear of your warping woes, FWIW temperature and humidity are very different beasts # and as your climate there is mostly humid it might be a good idea to seal as much of the timber on both sides as soon you can to avoid the ebbs and flows of moisture and stabilise your structures. No need to do under the laid track as the surface involved is minor.

 

Worst case would be that you advance further and find the problem even worse with time and insurmountable. At the moment just a misfortune, avoid a disaster! (HT B Disraeli) ##

 

A permanent dehumidifier would probably be a King Canute solution, then again your air con will lower humidity as it works. Two people working as hard as you do will pump up humidity no end over a day, even worse when your Ops team gets going. Perhaps invest in a wet/dry bulb or whatever to monitor changes.

 

# When outside temp rises the outside humidity will fall (expressed as %) but the amount of moisture in the air (mg/L) will be much the same so having little impact on the inside level. 

 

## Also recall that popular Youtube channel where the guy had to totally rip up his huge project because of moisture attacking MDF, not the same I know but the alarm bell is ringing here.

 

Colin

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by BWsTrains
additions and corrections for clarity

[Stubby47]

Could you replace the dairy with a small town gas works?

[Martin S-C]

3 hours ago, Stubby47 said:

Could you replace the dairy with a small town gas works?

I could, yes. Something of the sort of thing Peter Denny was so expert at squeezing into a corner. It would give me an excuse to shunt tar tankers in there as well. Thanks for the thought!

Colin - thanks, point taken. It is a worry and I noticed another pair of boards shifting a bit out of vertical alignment again yesterday under some track. The culprit seems to be the plywood, B&Q's finest I am afraid and I know their products can be, shall we say, variable in quality.

I will investigate a suitable sealant. I assume you're just talking basic emulsion for the job and not a specific product?

[Titanius Anglesmith]

It’s great seeing this layout develop! I like the MVR-liveried wagon too 

 

With regards to timber “sealing”, it’s a bit of a misnomer, in my most humble opinion. A case of semantics, I guess. Wood warps due to uneven changes in its moisture content (amongst other things). As wood loses most of its water content through the end grain, the ends of boards (or edges in the case of plywood) will change, and therefore move, quicker than the rest of the board. Opinions are divided amongst woodworkers, but I’m in the camp that believes that sealing the long / face grain achieves little, and its the end grain that matters. An impermeable seal is not required as the aim is not to seal the existing moisture in, but to allow it to release more slowly. Personally I use PVA glue to seal the ends, but mainly because I have it to hand in the shed. 

[CameronL]

3 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

I could, yes. Something of the sort of thing Peter Denny was so expert at squeezing into a corner. It would give me an excuse to shunt tar tankers in there as well. Thanks for the thought.

And not just tar tankers. Don't forget the coke wagons. Coal from the colliery in, coke out both for your local coal merchants and fuel for the trams, which had to be smokless. Industries which use several types of wagon are the best! Particularly when they supply something else in the layout.

 

Great seeing all the progress. 

 

Best wishes

 

Cam

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, CameronL said:

And not just tar tankers. Don't forget the coke wagons. Coal from the colliery in, coke out both for your local coal merchants and fuel for the trams, which had to be smokless. Industries which use several types of wagon are the best! Particularly when they supply something else in the layout.

 

 

Give some thought as to where the coal for the gasworks is coming from so it can arrive in appropriate PO colliery or factor's wagons.

 

I'm still trying to get my head round this but I think some Notts/S. Yorks seams were the largest source.

[Stubby47]

There is a colliery elsewhere on the layout...

[Compound2632]

But does it produce the right coal? It's entirely possible to have two loaded coal trains passing headed in opposite directions, or indeed empties. If and when I actually build a layout based on the Midland in the north Birmingham area, I will have loaded wagons from Swansea Vale collieries heading north and loaded wagons from North Warwickshire collieries (e.g. Birch Coppice) heading south to supply Worcestershire and Gloucestershire coal merchants - along with their own wagons, branded Empty to Birch Coppice Colly.

 

Coals to Newcastle is a thing - bound to be industries there needing anthracite, for instance.

[Martin S-C]

This layout is a Small Empire design and although its based near real places, the companies and towns it serves are fictional. I see this layout as a rather poor cousin to Edwardian's magnificently thought-out Castle Aching, from which much inspiration has been derived. However, apart from some rather pretentious links to the Madder Valley Railway to allow a supply of external traffic, the system is self-contained, so in that case, yes, the colliery produces the right sort of coal for the local industries. Or rather, should I say, more correctly, that a variety of industries developed around this local area because coal of a certain type was cheaply available, which makes more sense.

 

Forest of Dean coal was commonly house coal at the near-surface seams which meant that local merchants and industries would buy it for domestic consumption and to fire the boilers of most local industries. The deeper (and much sought after) High Delf seam under the limestone cap of the Forest was akin to Welsh steam coal and most of this was shipped out of the region from Lydney docks. It probably went abroad, but there was a historical variety of coal in the Forest and some mines won different grades.

I can of course happily have loaded coal trains enter the system from external sources and send out loaded trains. I need no excuses to play trains in new and more interesting ways.

The coke output from a gasworks would mean I need a couple of coke wagons now, a type I have no examples of. The thing is that I have never seen a coke wagon local to the Forest which may imply some major point I'm missing... I think I need to investigate gas works. Maybe there weren't any, but if that's the case, then why?

 

Titanius Anglesmith - a careful look will reveal more than one MVR wagon as well as a C&M one and an AVR one, though the latter is hard to read.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Martin S-C

[Martin S-C]

Good progress was made today. I did some modelling and Neil soldered a shedload of bus droppers and supplied power to GS and NM, as well as fitting the reversing loop module.

 

First, my bits:

A crude engine shed was converted from the Bachmann tin barn by the simple expedient of dremmelling 20mm off the 8 square section brass legs. Maybe somewhat unlikely but it appeals to me. The finished article will have the far side extended down to ground level (with old sleepers) to make a full height wall for workbenches, tools and stores to be piled against. There will also be an awning rigged up outside over the adjacent track under which "tent" the line's mobile crane truck and runner will live. A small bothy will be supplied for the crews to brew tea and eat their sandwiches. I also noticed today that the Hornby resin coaling stage has the footsteps broken off but I have some in the spares box so will replace these at some point. It and the tin shed will be subject to some severe weathering mayhem in due course.

 

Second, a timber trestle bridge. I finally got around to building this. It's my first scratchbuilt model in at least 20 years and I'm moderately happy with how its turning out. For now the leg assemblies are just placed loose under the two longitudinal baulks that support the rails. You can see in the last pic that the nearest assembly is leaning... I need to remove this track piece, shed the Peco sleepers and use some small section timber and chairs (I have a stash in the bits box) to extend the sleepers outwards beyond the ends of the leg main members, otherwise as it is now it looks odd.

 

Neil's wiring work today included installing the Tam Valley reverse loop module for the turning triangle. This is an idiot proof installation: Two wires from the DCC bus to the input terminals and two wires from the output terminals to the ISOLATED section of your reverse loop or triangle. That's it. The widget does everything else and locos can be driven around a loop without stopping and with no polarity "clicks" or pauses.

As the loco enters the reverse loop or section the green/red lights will flip indicating job done.

[chuffinghell]

I’m liking your trestle bridge 

[BWsTrains]

16 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Colin - thanks, point taken. It is a worry and I noticed another pair of boards shifting a bit out of vertical alignment again yesterday under some track. The culprit seems to be the plywood, B&Q's finest I am afraid and I know their products can be, shall we say, variable in quality.

I will investigate a suitable sealant. I assume you're just talking basic emulsion for the job and not a specific product?

 

Martin,

 

Unless you used Marine Ply, any brand of std 12mm will warp with fluctuations of moisture levels, its quite porous and adsorbant, try adding some water to one side of an off-cut to see the effect.

 

My dad was a great believer in using "Unibond" (PVA, not sure if the brand still exists over there?) and primed all outdoor timbers generously before putting on top coats. His sheds from the 1950s were in good shape 50 years later despite the ravages of Coastal Somerset weather! I think that's what I'd try today, perhaps diluted about 1:1 and rolled on with one of those mini paint rollers, treating both sides one after the other and edges as well. Try it on a low risk area first as I can offer no guarantees.  I tried 1 drop on raw 5-Ply and within a couple of minutes it had spread out and fully soaked into the wood, it is so porous.

 

Another option might be a quality flat acrylic paint but that's going to be messier and more of a pain. Assuming you're landscaping large areas on top, these will need priming anyway so best do all.

 

It's interesting here in Melbourne that our timber framed house, built 50 yrs ago out of seasoned hardwood (and I mean hard, it smokes when you try to drill it!) still moves around with the seasons, bone dry very low humidity in summer to moist winters.

 

Colin

 

 

[chuffinghell]

ZINSSER B-I-N shellac based primer/sealer from Screwfix is very good for sealing timber edges (especially on MDF) probably the best primer/sealer I’ve ever used.....it’s just quite expensive 

 

I think the technical terminology for the quality of DIY shop timber is

’sh*t stuff’

 

I think WBP plywood is is an exterior grade and is cheaper than Marine ply but it still costs more than standard ply

 

One of the reasons I used MDF was because all the plywood in Wickes was like corrugated sheeting and B&Q’s offerings were no better.

 

Plus I like working with MDF due to its uniform finish and thickness

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by chuffinghell