Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Harlequin]

Hi Martin,

 

There are a lot of places where track is very close to the walls of the room. Have you thought about how you will make it look natural? How the scenery merges into the backscene without too visible a join?

Obviously, in some places you can just have a boundary wall and that will look good but you can't do that everywhere.

 

I notice that the colliery is much bigger than the first version. If you reduced it's length a bit the purely scenic East end could continue round a bit further into the South East corner. I feel this would balance up the different scenes a bit better and make the scenic section between station and colliery valid in it's own right - somewhere where trains can be seen in plain countryside travelling between destinations.

 

I feel duty bound to remind you that the original version could reverse a whole train (or a loco) without having to remove it from the tracks and the latest version can't do that. (But it might not be too difficult to add it back in...!)

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Harlequin

[brumtb]

3 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

 

So nice to see Henley in Arden from the air.  In the late 60s I lived in a new build house in the field to the right of the mainline station after having from 1959 travelled through it every day to school in Stratford on Avon.  Fond memories.

Tony

 

 

 

[Schooner]

18 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

 

BTW - have you a link please to where you got the Hunstanton track plan from?

 

Nation Library of Scotland's georeferenced catalogue, a most excellent resource. 

 

Use the search pop-up (lower left of the screen) to change map series as well as skip to a particular spot, but be aware that these are location-specific.

 

Old-maps.co.uk has a superior collection, but restricted zoom levels and less user-friendly. Edit: See Harlequin's post, below. Add Britain from Above into the mix (register for free to unlock full-screen and all zoom options), and you've got a really potent procrastination research tool at your disposal.

 

Enjoy

 

Edit: Oh! How could I forget The Signalling Record Society! They have an excellent (although not, to me, intuitive) website with freely available and very useful previews of their for-sale signalling diagrams and more. Another first class resource.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Schooner

[Harlequin]

2 hours ago, Schooner said:

 

Nation Library of Scotland's georeferenced catalogue, a most excellent resource. 

 

Use the search pop-up (lower left of the screen) to change map series as well as skip to a particular spot, but be aware that these are location-specific.

 

Oldmaps.co.uk has a superior collection, but restricted zoom levels and less user-friendly. Add Britain from Above into the mix (register for free to unlock full-screen and all zoom options), and you've got a really potent procrastination...erm...research tool at your disposal.

 

Enjoy

 

Edit: Oh! How could I forget The Signalling Record Society! They have an excellent (although not, to me, intuitive) website with freely available and very useful previews of their for-sale signalling diagrams and more. Another first class resource.

I used to prefer old-maps.co.uk’s UI and I subscribed to it but their map quality isn’t as good as the NLS and their gazeteer (place name look up) recently stopped working, for me at least. I complained and they fobbed me off with a nonsense reply. So I cancelled my subscription and went to the NLS...

 

The SRS website is a curate’s egg.

[Martin S-C]

17 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I notice that the colliery is much bigger than the first version. If you reduced it's length a bit the purely scenic East end could continue round a bit further into the South East corner. I feel this would balance up the different scenes a bit better and make the scenic section between station and colliery valid in it's own right - somewhere where trains can be seen in plain countryside travelling between destinations.

I feel duty bound to remind you that the original version could reverse a whole train (or a loco) without having to remove it from the tracks and the latest version can't do that. (But it might not be too difficult to add it back in...!)

 

A train reversing line could go underneath the branch terminus and I think I will re-introduce that.

I have only the genesis of a scenic treatment in my head so far. Much of this revolves around access roads to goods yards, station approaches and industries since these need to be in certain places. Once they are in I am left with a series of blank areas to play with. I can then fit what I plan to be mostly rural scenery in those. I do want an open bucolic look as far as I can arrange it.

I think, yes, the colliery can be shortened towards the west a bit, perhaps as much as 9" to 12" if I shave lengths off various sidings equally. I am working on the basis of a maximum 10 wagons (9ft/10ft wb) plus brake plus 0-6-0 loco which a bit of measuring has determined is around 46", take off loco and brake and the colliery reception sidings need to be a minimum of 33" clear to run round. Ten is the max of course, some will be shorter.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Martin S-C

[Martin S-C]

Which gives us this. Thoughts?

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Martin S-C

[Regularity]

The colliery sorting sidings can probably be stub-ended now, as the exchange sidings have a loop. You could then make them slightly longer than 10 wagons, to store extra loads at busy times.

[Caley Jim]

28 minutes ago, Regularity said:

The colliery sorting sidings can probably be stub-ended now, as the exchange sidings have a loop. You could then make them slightly longer than 10 wagons, to store extra loads at busy times.

Indeed, all shunting in the colliery is going to be done with the shunter at the west (RH on the plan) end, so no need for the sorting sidings to be loops.  The arrangement I have on Kirkallanmuir, where the colliery is off-scene, is that empties going to the colliery branch are propelled.  The exchange sidings are dead ended.  See the schematic plan here and a 'fly -over' video here.

 

Jim

[wiggoforgold]

I like it. I would be inclined to widen the baseboards at the station end of the terminus, so that the roads in the station could be splayed out more, and the platforms widened. You've drawn the boards with straight edges - this might be for planning purposes of course, but I would be inclined to curve the edges of the boards rather than go for straight sections.

Alex

 

[Martin S-C]

I plan to now use laser cut commercial baseboards so rectangular units will be the basis. To add curved fascia around them and fill in with light scenery is an easy option.

[Martin S-C]

Colliery sorting sidings edited.

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Martin S-C

[richard i]

Great plan, I would have assumed the colliers platform would be on the branch and not the main, especially as there is no way past it whilst it picks up the passengers. Would just before the conveyor work?

richard

[Annie]

1 hour ago, richard i said:

Great plan, I would have assumed the colliers platform would be on the branch and not the main, especially as there is no way past it whilst it picks up the passengers. Would just before the conveyor work?

richard

Though the platform site would depend on where the colliery workers live wouldn't it and from which direction their trains are arriving in the morning and going to in the evening.  And as for other trains passing the situation is just the same as any other halt or small station without a passing loop on a single track line, - the worker's train has the staff/ticket/token so other trains have to wait until it is surrendered at the end of the section.  Martin isn't building Clapham junction, - this is a representation of a small minor railway so I don't see any kind of problem here.

[Caley Jim]

I assume the loop on the sorting sidings is long enough for the maximum train length you plan, but the headshunt need only be long enough to accommodate the loco of the arriving train.  Would look better if the train didn't fill the loop completely and it would give scope for slightly longer trains if you fancied it. 

 

Jim 

[Martin S-C]

4 hours ago, richard i said:

Great plan, I would have assumed the colliers platform would be on the branch and not the main, especially as there is no way past it whilst it picks up the passengers. Would just before the conveyor work?

You make a very fair point, Richard, and I also take Annie's comments into consideration but please be aware that the branch is only adjacent to the colliery because I am limited by the room's walls. In my imagination the branch is miles away.

1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

I assume the loop on the sorting sidings is long enough for the maximum train length you plan, but the headshunt need only be long enough to accommodate the loco of the arriving train.  Would look better if the train didn't fill the loop completely and it would give scope for slightly longer trains if you fancied it.

I can keep adjusting things, yes. After making the sorting sidings stub-ended I then wondered if it would make operations more flexible and interesting if some rakes of wagons could be fed under the screens from both ends. In addition a shunter would propel them under from the east end and a second loco could then draw them out from the west end so having a means to release the second shunter from the sorting sidings makes some sense. I'll bow to those who have greater knowledge of colliery workings in this case. To me it adds fun and more shunty options but is it realistic?

I can make the reception sidings longer but all through this exercise I'm conscious that the colliery is starting to look too busy again. Its not a huge affair in the Rhondda but is supposed to represent a fairly small concern on the west edge of the Forest. Somewhere like Ruspidge which was a very busy little place squeezed (like mine is) between a hillside and a running line, and with a stream between the running line and the colliery. At Ruspidge miners were almost certainly quite local and would have walked or bicycled to work though some may have arrived by train. There was a single platform public halt there in much the same place I've put mine though on the side away from the colliery. I could make it a public halt that serves both uses.

Here are a couple of photos of Ruspidge which I like to use as inspiration as a "mid-sized" Forest colliery. The main GWR line is on the left of the upper pic and right on the lower (which was taken earlier). It curves away from the colliery in very much the same style as my own line. There is a loop for the stopping and running around of coal trains on the colliery side of it which isn't apparent in the second earlier photo so it must have been laid later. There is a short land sales siding beside the managers house and then a longer kick-back road that gives access to the sorting sidings (x3). The road under the screens was single I believe and ran back from the sorting sidings. The overhead tub bridge gave access to the spoil heap which grew over the years in the vee formed between the main line and colliery owned land. The mine was shunted by the train engine in this case as was I think the rule in the Forest but since Hornby offer two beautiful flavours of Peckett and Bachmann the Andrew Barclay no sane person can be expected to resist such delights.

Both photos show well the "canalised" stream that formed the boundary between GWR property and the colliery and I may re-use that idea on my model. I had a similar idea on my first plan as well.

In modelling terms what appeals to me here is almost every available square foot of land filled with random piles of pit props. The small managers house is an inspiration as well. Note that it was not yet built when the earlier/lower photo was taken.

Ruspidge was an adit mine by the way, so no winding house.

I believe in the first picture the ramshackle row of small buildings right foreground were workers cottages, so another nice modelling feature.

 

This second picture shows the entirety of the mine workings except for the spoil heap which is out of shot in the right foreground. If I ran the branch line in a tunnel at this point I could push its track back right against the wall to give me a bit more space to model an adit mine entirely as well doing away with the conveyor and the need to portray a winding house on the backscene.

[Regularity]

3 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

To me it adds fun and more shunty options but is it realistic?

I think quite a few of them made considerable use of gravity.

[Martin S-C]

Indeed. Gravity shunting. The bane of railway modellers! I would need a powered coal truck. Might be worth investigating.

Current thinking....


There is scope to stop a branch train in the tunnel and using a track occupation lamp represent a longer journey. I can see a need for a WEST and EAST track occupied section so I know which tunnel portal a train will issue out of once I re-apply power after 30 minutes... I  could go OTT and make it a physical loop which would imply a passing station off stage.

Edited December 21, 2020 by Martin S-C

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

I would need a powered coal truck. Might be worth investigating.

More than one: one for each grade of coal - there’s at least three in the photo of Ruspidge.

[CKPR]

3 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

I would need a powered coal truck. Might be worth investigating.

High Level are your friend here http://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/flyshunterpage.html

[brumtb]

7 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

You make a very fair point, Richard, and I also take Annie's comments into consideration but please be aware that the branch is only adjacent to the colliery because I am limited by the room's walls. In my imagination the branch is miles away.

I can keep adjusting things, yes. After making the sorting sidings stub-ended I then wondered if it would make operations more flexible and interesting if some rakes of wagons could be fed under the screens from both ends. In addition a shunter would propel them under from the east end and a second loco could then draw them out from the west end so having a means to release the second shunter from the sorting sidings makes some sense. I'll bow to those who have greater knowledge of colliery workings in this case. To me it adds fun and more shunty options but is it realistic?

I can make the reception sidings longer but all through this exercise I'm conscious that the colliery is starting to look too busy again. Its not a huge affair in the Rhondda but is supposed to represent a fairly small concern on the west edge of the Forest. Somewhere like Ruspidge which was a very busy little place squeezed (like mine is) between a hillside and a running line, and with a stream between the running line and the colliery. At Ruspidge miners were almost certainly quite local and would have walked or bicycled to work though some may have arrived by train. There was a single platform public halt there in much the same place I've put mine though on the side away from the colliery. I could make it a public halt that serves both uses.

Here are a couple of photos of Ruspidge which I like to use as inspiration as a "mid-sized" Forest colliery. The main GWR line is on the left of the upper pic and right on the lower (which was taken earlier). It curves away from the colliery in very much the same style as my own line. There is a loop for the stopping and running around of coal trains on the colliery side of it which isn't apparent in the second earlier photo so it must have been laid later. There is a short land sales siding beside the managers house and then a longer kick-back road that gives access to the sorting sidings (x3). The road under the screens was single I believe and ran back from the sorting sidings. The overhead tub bridge gave access to the spoil heap which grew over the years in the vee formed between the main line and colliery owned land. The mine was shunted by the train engine in this case as was I think the rule in the Forest but since Hornby offer two beautiful flavours of Peckett and Bachmann the Andrew Barclay no sane person can be expected to resist such delights.

Both photos show well the "canalised" stream that formed the boundary between GWR property and the colliery and I may re-use that idea on my model. I had a similar idea on my first plan as well.

In modelling terms what appeals to me here is almost every available square foot of land filled with random piles of pit props. The small managers house is an inspiration as well. Note that it was not yet built when the earlier/lower photo was taken.

Ruspidge was an adit mine by the way, so no winding house.

I believe in the first picture the ramshackle row of small buildings right foreground were workers cottages, so another nice modelling feature.

 

This second picture shows the entirety of the mine workings except for the spoil heap which is out of shot in the right foreground. If I ran the branch line in a tunnel at this point I could push its track back right against the wall to give me a bit more space to model an adit mine entirely as well doing away with the conveyor and the need to portray a winding house on the backscene.

I really like this, Forest mines are so much more modellable and still retain a "rural" atmosphere.

Tony

[Martin S-C]

4 hours ago, Regularity said:

More than one: one for each grade of coal - there’s at least three in the photo of Ruspidge.

I don't grade the coal in my model wagons... yet

[Nick C]

22 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

There is scope to stop a branch train in the tunnel and using a track occupation lamp represent a longer journey. I can see a need for a WEST and EAST track occupied section so I know which tunnel portal a train will issue out of once I re-apply power after 30 minutes... I  could go OTT and make it a physical loop which would imply a passing station off stage.

 

Something like the indicator dial on some Tyer's EKT machines:

 

 

(if it's not legible, the white box says "Line Normal", red says "Train coming from" and green "Train going to" - other machines just have two positions, "token in" and "token out" without any directional information)

 

Photo credit - www.watercressline.co.uk

Edited December 22, 2020 by Nick C

[Regularity]

17 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

I don't grade the coal in my model wagons... yet

Would add to the verisimilitude of operations, though.

[Martin S-C]

20 hours ago, Nick C said:

 

Something like the indicator dial on some Tyer's EKT machines:

Beautiful though that is I will settle for two red LEDs on the control panel, one indicating the up direction and one the down. I would love to have authentic control equipment and bell code machines and such but space is at a premium in that operating well. Its narrowness is the bane of all my planning. I'm not complaining, I just have to go with very space saving solutions to whatever is needed.

[Regularity]

Why not one red, and one green, or some other colour, rather than two reds?