Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[CKPR]

22 hours ago, Regularity said:

Would add to the verisimilitude of operations, though.

Have I mentioned that the coal in the tenders and bunkers of my FR engines is actually some coal I found at the site of the old FR loco depot at Moor Row ? Ermm, why are you all looking at me  like that ?!

[Martin S-C]

On 23/12/2020 at 13:43, Regularity said:

Why not one red, and one green, or some other colour, rather than two reds?

Red for danger, denoting track occupied. With one lamp on the left end of a small graphic representing the tunnel and one at t'other, so I know which way a train in there is headed. I'll probably need a sticker or some such for each branch engine with its number on so I know what DCC address is hiding in there

CKPR - not bonkers at all, rather affectionate in fact. My coal is all off the ground at Barry Island, collected from alongside wrecked engines in the 1980s.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Martin S-C

[16Brunel]

Howdy Martin,

 

having read through this thread, I can certainly understand your ambition vs reality issue (ie multi-user system layout vs one or two operators) - am currently trying to find that balance myself.  May I make a suggestion towards your latest version?  Moving the northern turnout for the return loop to the right of the fiddle yard ladder would enable any train to be reversed, in either direction (clockwise or widdershins through the fiddle yard).  As it is, the reverse loop can only be used in one direction - once the first train uses that fiddle yard track, all others are forced to follow in that direction until the fiddle yard track is cleared.  Moving it allows full out-and-back operation, meaning only through trains need cross the doorway.

 

Cheers - Scott.

[Martin S-C]

Hi Scott - well blow me down. I am working away at this idea right now and didn't know your post was here. I have a problem though in limited space and a need to make 24" my absolute minimum radius. Here's a pic from AnyRail that shows the problem. I am certain a ladder of turnouts will go in there, I am just trying to lose the minimum length of storage loops so any input from the floor is very welcome. The 90deg curve is 24" radius and meets my inside storage loop, so others beyond it will be of greater radius. The fan of turnouts in green are 4 of the smallest PECO code 75s so its clear I cannot have the ladder on the curve. I just need to tweak until I can fit them in between short 24" curved sections until it all fits, but any input on the optimum geometry would be very welcome.

 

[Harlequin]

Hi Martin,

The curved turnouts might help here. Their inner radius is ~28in and the outer is ~60in-72in (it's not clear) but critically the outer arm keeps on turning so it's better than even the shortest straight turnout in situations like this.

But beware: They will test the B2Bs of your rolling stock in the facing direction - you may get some derailments if things are not properly adjusted.

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Harlequin

[Martin S-C]

Cheers Phil. I have twiddled some more but suspect I will lose a good deal of storage space as most of the tracks need to "fan out" on the vertical straight sections I've placed. I may be able to get away with 1 or even 2 very long back roads but the front three will be severely truncated. Even so I think as Scott said, having all 5 storage loops able to access the reversing loop track is a benefit worth having.

Onwards with the digital track laying!

[drduncan]

I thought PECO streamline small points were 24” radius..so why won’t they work? Or why not use code 100 set rack points, they are 17” radius...

 

If I’m missing something obvious do forgive; I’m one of those eccentrics who builds their own track to suit the location.  Of course you could do just that - it’s really not difficult....

 

Duncan

Edited February 6, 2021 by drduncan

[Martin S-C]

19 hours ago, drduncan said:

I’m one of those eccentrics who builds their own track to suit the location.  Of course you could do just that - it’s really not difficult...

Yes, good point (no pun intended). You can also chop the PECO points up by lopping a couple of sleepers off each arm so they can be mounted closer together. IIRC the curved points will accept about 3 sleepers worth removed before you hit the check rails and moving parts.

[Martin S-C]

Current state of play. I had 544" of storage loops and now have 363" which is still 30 feet or approx 7 trains, but now they all access the reversing line so a plus overall I think. Beginning to have a doodle on the scenic treatment as well with the branch becoming a tramway with lots of Wantage and Irish NG connotations.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Martin S-C

[Nick C]

If you put a LH curved point on the reversing loop, roughly under the loco coal stage, you could join it to the long siding on the inside and make that another loop?

[Martin S-C]

I'm sure one would go in there but I am now shy of having hidden points as well as thinking that siding might be useful for storing locos or a rolling stock rake. The innermost loop I think will get used to shift locos from one end of the yard to the other as well, so having that road linked to the reversing loop won't gain me much.

Here is the latest iteration.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Martin S-C

[Martin S-C]

Track lifting commenced today at Witts End, and later at Puddlebrook Junction. Despite this looking terrible I am actually pleased I've got to this position and can learn from my mistakes.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Martin S-C

[Corbs]

Whoop whoop, exciting!

[Martin S-C]

Well, not really! But I hope for phoenixes out of ashes in due course.

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

I hope for phoenixes out of ashes in due course.

River?

Joaquin?

Arizona?

[Nick C]

12 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Track lifting commenced today at Witts End, and later at Puddlebrook Junction. Despite this looking terrible I am actually pleased I've got to this position and can learn from my mistakes.

I know how you feel, having had to do the same with mine a few months ago.

 

I've decided that befoer getting properly stuck in to my next big project (Lyme Regis), I'm going to build a little shunting-plank to hopefully make all the mistakes there instead of on the proper layout - I've not managed to build anything with proper scenery yet...

[Martin S-C]

2 hours ago, Regularity said:

River?

Joaquin?

Arizona?

Fawkes, hopefully. He was very cool.

A couple of positive things I can be doing as I'm destroying a previous universe (muahaha). Task #1 is to design my new control panel mimic boards. I'll be using the same graphics as previously so the base idea is already in place. This leads neatly into task #2 which is signalling. I am one of those who is often mystified by this arcane witchery and black-magic so if anyone can offer input I would be delighted to learn.

As a reminder here is the main station:



First consideration - is the main signal box in the best location? Might it be placed better at the red ?? I've marked. I can see that the second position allows easier collection of all single line tokens from both branch and main. All the operational lines are also in front of the box and not on both sides, making for better visibility. All engines backing off trains from all platforms would draw up just east of the box before reversing onto shed, so that seems better for safety reasons as well as any verbal communications between the bobby and footplate crews.

Second - is a small box at the far west marked in green needed?

Thirdly - is the crossover I've marked in red really necessary?

Fourthly - originally platforms 3 & 4 were terminal lines but the "fake" circuit that's been added for relaxation purposes now makes both these platforms through roads. When configured for a circuit platform 3 will be a west bound line only and 4 eastbound, except that I envisage branch passenger services would terminate at platform 4 making it bi-directional at least as far as approx the buffer stop of the engineers siding above it. When I run a push-pull or railcar on the branch its simpler but if the service is loco hauled, what would be more realistic - to uncouple the branch engine and run it around via the west crossover and platform 3 or put a fresh engine on the down end and send the up engine on shed after the next service has departed? I can see that the first option would need a fair bit more signalling while the second lets me rotate locos.

Additionally I have considered making platform 4 into 4a and 4b so that an eastbound main service can stop alongside the buffer stop of the engineers siding (the one that runs past the engine shed) while a branch push-pull is already in the eastern end of the same platform face (platform 4b). The branch train would depart first. Alternatively a branch train could both arrive and depart into/from 4b before the 4a main line service continues east. This little operating quirk appeals to me a lot simply because its unusual. Signalling this working arrangement will need advice!

[Regularity]

58 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

First consideration - is the main signal box in the best location? Might it be placed better at the red ?? I've marked. I can see that the second position allows easier collection of all single line tokens from both branch and main. All the operational lines are also in front of the box and not on both sides, making for better visibility. All engines backing off trains from all platforms would draw up just east of the box before reversing onto shed, so that seems better for safety reasons as well as any verbal communications between the bobby and footplate crews.

Second - is a small box at the far west marked in green needed?

Thirdly - is the crossover I've marked in red really necessary?

Fourthly - originally platforms 3 & 4 were terminal lines but the "fake" circuit that's been added for relaxation purposes now makes both these platforms through roads. When configured for a circuit platform 3 will be a west bound line only and 4 eastbound, except that I envisage branch passenger services would terminate at platform 4 making it bi-directional at least as far as approx the buffer stop of the engineers siding above it. When I run a push-pull or railcar on the branch its simpler but if the service is loco hauled, what would be more realistic - to uncouple the branch engine and run it around via the west crossover and platform 3 or put a fresh engine on the down end and send the up engine on shed after the next service has departed? I can see that the first option would need a fair bit more signalling while the second lets me rotate locos.

Additionally I have considered making platform 4 into 4a and 4b so that an eastbound main service can stop alongside the buffer stop of the engineers siding (the one that runs past the engine shed) while a branch push-pull is already in the eastern end of the same platform face (platform 4b). The branch train would depart first. Alternatively a branch train could both arrive and depart into/from 4b before the 4a main line service continues east. This little operating quirk appeals to me a lot simply because its unusual. Signalling this working arrangement will need advice!

 

Zerothly, it is your railway...

 

1) The best place for the signal box, if starting from scratch on a real railway with mechanical signalling, is somewhere in the middle of the point rodding runs. Your current position is more aligned to this need, and walkways can be provided for token exchange.

 

2) As this is on running lines, then probably yes. It will also be used for the issuance of tokens for the continuous loop - no need to issue them for operations between this and the other box.

 

3) It allows platforms 3 and 4 to gain access to the carriage sidings. it is useful rather than necessary, but if you omit it, you may regret it!

 

4) You could have branch trains terminating in platform 3, running round, and departing from platform 4 after shunting over to that road. More likely that platform 3 would be bi-directional, though, so that the branch loco can run round, and await a connecting eastbound service coming into platform 4. This signal will be required anyway when operating in terminus mode.

 

5) Not sure about this. Personally, I wouldn't, but it's your railway.

[Caley Jim]

If you wish to learn the principles (and history) of signalling, can I recommend this book https://www.crassoc.org.uk/web/node/94 ?  Although about CR practice, the principles are fairly general and it was written by a former signalling engineer and operations supervisor.

 

Jim

[Nick C]

20 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Fawkes, hopefully. He was very cool.

A couple of positive things I can be doing as I'm destroying a previous universe (muahaha). Task #1 is to design my new control panel mimic boards. I'll be using the same graphics as previously so the base idea is already in place. This leads neatly into task #2 which is signalling. I am one of those who is often mystified by this arcane witchery and black-magic so if anyone can offer input I would be delighted to learn.

As a reminder here is the main station:



First consideration - is the main signal box in the best location? Might it be placed better at the red ?? I've marked. I can see that the second position allows easier collection of all single line tokens from both branch and main. All the operational lines are also in front of the box and not on both sides, making for better visibility. All engines backing off trains from all platforms would draw up just east of the box before reversing onto shed, so that seems better for safety reasons as well as any verbal communications between the bobby and footplate crews.

Second - is a small box at the far west marked in green needed?

Thirdly - is the crossover I've marked in red really necessary?

Fourthly - originally platforms 3 & 4 were terminal lines but the "fake" circuit that's been added for relaxation purposes now makes both these platforms through roads. When configured for a circuit platform 3 will be a west bound line only and 4 eastbound, except that I envisage branch passenger services would terminate at platform 4 making it bi-directional at least as far as approx the buffer stop of the engineers siding above it. When I run a push-pull or railcar on the branch its simpler but if the service is loco hauled, what would be more realistic - to uncouple the branch engine and run it around via the west crossover and platform 3 or put a fresh engine on the down end and send the up engine on shed after the next service has departed? I can see that the first option would need a fair bit more signalling while the second lets me rotate locos.

Additionally I have considered making platform 4 into 4a and 4b so that an eastbound main service can stop alongside the buffer stop of the engineers siding (the one that runs past the engine shed) while a branch push-pull is already in the eastern end of the same platform face (platform 4b). The branch train would depart first. Alternatively a branch train could both arrive and depart into/from 4b before the 4a main line service continues east. This little operating quirk appeals to me a lot simply because its unusual. Signalling this working arrangement will need advice!

 

Here's my first attempt at signalling it - possibly a bit overkill in that some of the shunt moves in/out of the station end sidings might be done with hand-signals instead of fixed ones.

 

I'd keep the box where you drew it, there was a limit of 350yds for mechanical point rodding, and putting it right at the entrance to the throat would mean you'd probably need ground frames for the crossovers at the platform ends. I'd also keep the little box at the west end, if nothing else because it looks nice, and saves a long walk with the tokens! It'd probably just be a ground frame in real life though.

 

Given your era, you could also claim that the tokens were dealt with by the station master (most likely staff-and-ticket rather than electronic) and so kept in the station building - on some lines that lasted right until the end.

 

I would suggest using p3 rather than 4 for the terminating branch trains, as you've then got that nice crossover to the P2 loop for running round. It's unlikely that they'd change branch engines each time.

 

The crossover in red isn't strictly necessary, but would make shunting to the carriage sidings from p3/4 easier - it depends if you think that's going to be a frequent move?

 

The complicated signals are the homes, and the P3/4 starters - for the homes you're probably going to need route indicators, as you've got quite a few routes from each (from the homes, main moves to P1-3, shunt moves to P1-3 and both loops, also both to P4 if you make that bidirectional). P3/4 starters also have a lot of routes, two main routes from each and either two or three shunt moves depending if you keep the red crossover - potential for a nice 4-doll bracket!

 

The signal from P1 loop might want to be a full-size goods signal, depending on company practice. I've assumed all the points in the loco yard, goods yard and carriage sidings 2/3 are hand-worked, as they don't involve passenger lines.

 

edit - I've also added advanced starters and outer homes. Again maybe overkill, but the station is big enough that the signalman isn't going to want to tie himself up with having to keep an overlap free once he's accepted a train...

Edited April 30, 2021 by Nick C

[Martin S-C]

Wow. Lots to digest. Thank you very much. I will study this and no doubt fire off a fusillade of questions. Bear in mind as well that the Nether Madder& Green Soudley Railway is a moderately under-financed independent line. It takes its original inspiration from John Ahern's Madder Valley, which I'm sure you know by now but has blossomed in my imagination into something akin to the Midland & South Western Junction making it a modest cross-country route that links significant industry or population centres "across the grain" of other competing bigger companies.

So post WWI it will be a little haggard and worn, may still include some older signal types (on the Witts End branch at least) and may only just adhere to BoT rules... so cost cutting and "innovative solutions" (to use a horrid modern phrase) might be in use.

More thoughts later.

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

The complicated signals are the homes, and the P3/4 starters - for the homes you're probably going to need route indicators, as you've got quite a few routes from each (from the homes, main moves to P1-3, shunt moves to P1-3 and both loops, also both to P4 if you make that bidirectional). P3/4 starters also have a lot of routes, two main routes from each and either two or three shunt moves depending if you keep the red crossover - potential for a nice 4-doll bracket!

 

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

So post WWI it will be a little haggard and worn, may still include some older signal types (on the Witts End branch at least) and may only just adhere to BoT rule

 

Some simplification is therefore possible.

 

The home signals for both the branch and the main can be simplified to have three main arms, for P1, P2 and P3, plus a shunt disc for all other routes. (You don't need calling-on arms or anything if things are a bit "old"). Goods trains would be required to come to a stand, and then the ground disc can be used to put them into the loop at the bottom, or they could simply run into a platform road prior to being disposed of.

Similarly, P3 and P4 now need two arms each, for branch and main, and then a single ground disc/shunting signal applicable to all other routes.

 

HTH.

[Martin S-C]

I've taken some time to study this. I like it a lot though more complex than I at first imagined, particularly the westbound entry into the station.

Going from west to east there is no eastbound home signal as this is assumed to be beyond the tunnel shown at extreme left. In fact if I do have one it would take the form of possibly a simple green/red lamp at the fiddle yard exit or on the fiddle yard operator's panel, although...

 

...a model signal (home or stop)(HS) is also possible, (1 HS lever).

 

P3/P4 west crossover is a ground signal (GS), (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

P3 westbound starter is a simple home or stop signal, (1 HS lever).

 

P3 crossover/loco release is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Signal from middle siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever).

 

Signal from P2 siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever).

 

Signal at P2 loco release crossover is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Signal at P1 loco release crossover is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Shunt signal to parcels bay is a ground signal, (1 GS lever).

 

Middle siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

P3 & P4 eastbound starters and both bracket signals with 2 arms, left arm being lower for the branch. Each post also carries a shunting arm (SA), (4 HS levers + 2 SA levers).

 

East P4 points is a turnout lever, (1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

Shunt from middle loop is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

P1 & P2 starters are simple home/stop signals. Each post also carries a shunting arm (SA), (2 HS levers + 2 SA levers). NOTE: Branch services never leave from P1 & P2 so bracket signals not necessary here, all departures head down the main.

 

Shunt from P1 loop is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Cattle dock siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

Yard exit siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

Yard contains 2 hand-operated single turnouts and one crossover, (on the control panel this will be 3 turnout levers).

 

P2 and P3 crossover is a turnout lever, (1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

P1 and P2 entry is a turnout lever, (1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

Shunt from loco yard is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout). NOTE: Entry to loco yard is via P3/P4 controlled by shunt arms.

 

Loco yard contains 2 hand-operated single turnouts and the turntable, (on the control panel this will be 2 turnout levers and a rotating track-selector switch).

 

Main to P1 & P2 crossover is a turnout lever, (1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Shunt from CS1 is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

Shunt from CS2 & CS3 is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 2 turnout levers operating 2 turnouts).

 

NOT: Would it be more correct to have all 3 CS stem from one set of points connected to the running lines? So CS2 & CS3 turnout runs off CS1 rather than join the centre track of the 3-way? This removes the need for a 3-way and 1 ground signal.

 

Branch home is a 2-arm bracket signal that controls access to P3 & P4, plus a shunting arm for goods trains to access the P1 loop, (2 HS levers + 1 SA lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Main home is a 4-arm bracket stepped down from left to right to control entry to P1, P2, P3 and P4, plus a shunting arm for goods trains to access the P1 loop, (4 HS levers + 1 SA lever).

 

NOTE: Above two sets of signals could be a gantry spanning the branch and main tracks.

 

Advanced starters are both simple home or stop signals, (2 HS levers).

 

Outer homes are both simple home or stop signals, (2 HS levers).

 

TOTALS:
 

15 ground signals
8 single arm stop signals, two with shunting arms
2 twin arm bracket signals, left arm lower, both have shunting arms
1 twin arm bracket signal, right arm lower, with shunting arm
1 four arm bracket signal, rightmost arms stepped lower, with shunting arm
21 turnout levers

 

Total of 60 levers in the frame.

 

Now that seems a huge number for what is a modest town terminus. Agreed it would be 55 levers if the goods and loco yard points were hand operated but even so, this seems a lot. This excludes any separate locking levers. Have I calculated this wrong? The amount of signalling also seems excessive - is this really the BoT minimum?

 

If my ground discs are all dummies I still have 45 levers... I'm not complaining, just a bit stunned!

[Nick C]

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

I've taken some time to study this. I like it a lot though more complex than I at first imagined, particularly the westbound entry into the station.

Going from west to east there is no eastbound home signal as this is assumed to be beyond the tunnel shown at extreme left. In fact if I do have one it would take the form of possibly a simple green/red lamp at the fiddle yard exit or on the fiddle yard operator's panel, although...

 

...a model signal (home or stop)(HS) is also possible, (1 HS lever).

 

P3/P4 west crossover is a ground signal (GS), (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

P3 westbound starter is a simple home or stop signal, (1 HS lever). This and the previous two would, I think, be on a ground frame.

 

P3 crossover/loco release is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Signal from middle siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever).

 

Signal from P2 siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever).

 

Signal at P2 loco release crossover is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts). Looking at a few diagrams from termini on SRS, several don't have signals protecting the loco release crossovers - presumably they'd have been hand-signalled. Several have then worked from a local ground-frame as well, so probably worked by the loco crew themselves - usually with an electrical release from the 'box.

 

Signal at P1 loco release crossover is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Shunt signal to parcels bay is a ground signal, (1 GS lever).

 

Middle siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

P3 & P4 eastbound starters and both bracket signals with 2 arms, left arm being lower for the branch. Each post also carries a shunting arm (SA), (4 HS levers + 2 SA levers). If P3 is only used for teminating branch trains, you might not need the route to the main being signalled?

 

East P4 points is a turnout lever, (1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

Shunt from middle loop is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

P1 & P2 starters are simple home/stop signals. Each post also carries a shunting arm (SA), (2 HS levers + 2 SA levers). NOTE: Branch services never leave from P1 & P2 so bracket signals not necessary here, all departures head down the main.

 

Shunt from P1 loop is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Cattle dock siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

Yard exit siding is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout). No point lever here, it's on the same crossover as P1 loop.

 

Yard contains 2 hand-operated single turnouts and one crossover, (on the control panel this will be 3 turnout levers).

 

P2 and P3 crossover is a turnout lever, (1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

P1 and P2 entry is a turnout lever, (1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

Shunt from loco yard is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout). NOTE: Entry to loco yard is via P3/P4 controlled by shunt arms.

 

Loco yard contains 2 hand-operated single turnouts and the turntable, (on the control panel this will be 2 turnout levers and a rotating track-selector switch).

 

Main to P1 & P2 crossover is a turnout lever, (1 turnout lever operating both turnouts).

 

Shunt from CS1 is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 1 turnout lever operating 1 turnout).

 

Shunt from CS2 & CS3 is a ground signal, (1 GS lever + 2 turnout levers operating 2 turnouts). Only one point lever, the other is covered by the main-p1/2 crossover.

 

NOT: Would it be more correct to have all 3 CS stem from one set of points connected to the running lines? So CS2 & CS3 turnout runs off CS1 rather than join the centre track of the 3-way? This removes the need for a 3-way and 1 ground signal. Yes - usually you want to minimise the number of facing points on any passenger line, so much better to have just one and hand-points within the CS yard. Similarly, if you could move the cattle dock points the other side of the loop crossover, they'd be hand points too, and save another ground signal

 

Branch home is a 2-arm bracket signal that controls access to P3 & P4, plus a shunting arm for goods trains to access the P1 loop, (2 HS levers + 1 SA lever + 1 turnout lever operating both turnouts). Would branch trians run into P4? or just P3?

 

Main home is a 4-arm bracket stepped down from left to right to control entry to P1, P2, P3 and P4, plus a shunting arm for goods trains to access the P1 loop, (4 HS levers + 1 SA lever).

Do you need main trains into P4? I'd assumed westbound + branch in P3, eastbound in P4

 

NOTE: Above two sets of signals could be a gantry spanning the branch and main tracks.

 

Advanced starters are both simple home or stop signals, (2 HS levers).

 

Outer homes are both simple home or stop signals, (2 HS levers).

 

TOTALS:
 

15 ground signals
8 single arm stop signals, two with shunting arms
2 twin arm bracket signals, left arm lower, both have shunting arms
1 twin arm bracket signal, right arm lower, with shunting arm
1 four arm bracket signal, rightmost arms stepped lower, with shunting arm
21 turnout levers

 

I make it 19 points (including hand points/ground frames), 17 stop signals, 19 shunt signals - or with the above-mentioned changes, 13 shunt signals. A total of 55 or 49 levers, including hand points and ground frames. There would also be 14 facing point locks, unless you used "economical" ones as per the Midland Railway.

 

Total of 60 levers in the frame.

 

Now that seems a huge number for what is a modest town terminus. Agreed it would be 55 levers if the goods and loco yard points were hand operated but even so, this seems a lot. This excludes any separate locking levers. Have I calculated this wrong? The amount of signalling also seems excessive - is this really the BoT minimum?

Ilfracombe had 50, but only 2 platforms and one route. Newquay 45, the same. Hunstanton, perhaps most similar as it was a single line, had over 70. (https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/lner/E80.gif)

 

If my ground discs are all dummies I still have 45 levers... I'm not complaining, just a bit stunned!

My musings in red above...

Edited April 30, 2021 by Nick C

[Harlequin]

The bottom most section of the station: [Parcels & milk, loop, cattle dock, coal siding, goods shed, goods loop and brake vans siding] forms an isolated, non-passenger-rated area.

So I don't think any ground signals are needed for movements within that area at all.

I suggest only ground signals for the two crossovers to and from the passenger-rated P1 line would be needed and only for three of those movements because the move from loop to P1 loco release would never happen during normal operations.

What do the expert signallers think?

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Harlequin