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2 hours ago, brylonscamel said:

I do love the Artitec stuff. I gather the head model maker has a background in making mostly model ships for Dutch museums?

That makes sense, given that the core of their range is model ship kits. I have one waiting to be built - a coaster of the kind that carried china-clay from Cornwall.

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I agree regarding their models, extremely fine detail.

Meanwhile this little lady arrived today. She's currently running in and will be off to Digitrains in Lincoln this afternoon to have her guts opened up and see how much room is inside for a sound decoder.

 

The detail Hornby have put in is excellent with very fine handrails and lamp irons. Quite a little smaller than I expected at 85mm over buffer beams. She's a chubby lass and weighs in at a smidge over 180gm so should have a fair haulage power.

Motor is almost silent and very smooth. Very pleased with her.

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Edited by Martin S-C
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1 minute ago, Martin S-C said:

I have only weathered one loco for a friend. It went okay but I wasn't completely happy with it. I shall have a got at a less important loco or two first I think and see how I get on.

 

I thought your wagon weathering proved you had the skills ... 

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I've done my Dads's locos (mostly) and feel like I've progressed.

If you ignore the (horrifically clumsy and incorrect) lamps - which are being replaced, the weathering on the Clan was good fun. The more reference photos I could find, the better ..

 

 

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That's still very good.

The issue I have is the period I'm modelling. I think its easier to weather a BR steamer because there's tons of photos out there, some in colour and they were often quite dirty. So there is actually quite a lot of actual "activity" you can put into the dirt layers, if you understand my meaning. Your model looks great for an un-cared for tired loco.

 

I need locos that are actually clean, and that is extremely hard to do. I have never seen anyone (let alone me) who can weather a loco so its clean and within the price range of my wallet!

Think of a loco that is worked hard but extremely well looked after. Lots of cheaply paid cleaners with pride in their work wiping it down every day. Photos of that condition are very rare and colour ones almost non-existent.

Weathering these in 4mm scale for example would be a challenge. And the Terrier here is probably too dirty for my needs.

 

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Image_No.6_-_Freshwater_Nameplate.jpg.714b23f7e37d031dcd79ee7f527e4d9a.jpg

 

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Edited by Martin S-C
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15 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

"Weathering these in 4mm scale for example would be a challenge. And the Terrier here is probably too dirty for my needs."

 

I see! .. Yeah that's a tricky one. I've looked at doing a couple of clean-but-operational steam locos and I reckon the trick is to get the glossy looking realistic. Not a high gloss but the kind of finish you get with a colour-restoring polish like T-Cut (gloss where it's possible for cleaners to work their magic / dull in the crevices)

Things like the smokebox and the cab roof are inevitably more matt finished with dusting of whitish deposits, touches of grease staining around pipework, motion and chassis.

Am I right in thinking that "Freshwater No.8" has the closest finish to what you describe?

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The other two are maybe closer. Freshwater is perhaps a bit too dirty. The trouble is its so subjective and I can only say "Yep! That's it exactly!" when I get there.

Below the footplate is perhaps light-to-moderate grease, oil and brake dust but nothing more. On the footplate, cab roof and smokebox some patina of dust and ash that has settled from airborne particles and got smeared about by the crews boots, with perhaps a weeny bit less of a patina on the boiler top.

Then very subtle things you can only achieve with a tiny brush and hours of painstaking work like dirt on the cab steps, paint chips on the handrails and very minimal gatherings of dirt in small corners.

An airbrush won't do it and I have tried to do this effect on wagons and they just seem to stay clean! If I use a dirt wash heavy enough to show, it then becomes too heavy. Quite frustrating!

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One of my pals achieved what I think is the best effect that i’ve seen, by gloss-painting, then a hefty wash of “gunge”, which he them polished away.

 

This left very noticeable muck around rivets, crevices etc, and a “not quite as glossy as before” look on the main platework,

 

When I see him, I will try to get the recipe ...... I think it might have been acrylic gunge, over an oil-based enamel main paintwork, left to 90% dry, then cleaned with a touch of alcohol on a cloth.

 

A further thought is that pre-grouping paintwork didn’t actually stand-up to use all that well. If you’ve got access to the “Bennett Collection” album of LBSCR photos, you can see all sorts of well bulled-up locos, but which have patches of paint worn or flaked away, especially in areas that get particularly hot. Modern preserved locos are painted with more durable paint!

 

Edited by Nearholmer
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5 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

A further thought is that pre-grouping paintwork didn’t actually stand-up to use all that well. If you’ve got access to the “Bennett Collection” album of LBSCR photos, you can see all sorts of well bulled-up locos, but which have patches of paint worn or flaked away, especially in areas that get particularly hot. Modern preserved locos are painted with more durable paint!

 

Also to be seen in photos of Midland engines in the 1880s and 90s - firebox sides usually. And this on well-turned out engines on a line noted for the immaculate appearance of its engines.

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Martyn Welch told me some years ago that for the ‘clean but in service’ look, he spent longer removing the weathering he had carefully applied than he did carefully applying.

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I'd argue for acrylic for knocking the virginal look off Sherwood when she gets back.

You can spend a happy hour or so applying and wiping a soot/brake dust mix of dark broon acrylic over and over until you get a desired effect. (i favour swirly greasy rag marks disfiguring the broad expanses of such an Industrial pastel shade)

Next morning under bright sunlight, with a toothbrush and hot water, or at any time in the future, you will be able to strip everything off to the out-of-box virgin once again.

 venus.jpg.212b1a9728f0a72753fd7c08461382fe.jpg

:)dh

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On 23/08/2019 at 13:50, Martin S-C said:

I agree regarding their models, extremely fine detail.

Meanwhile this little lady arrived today. She's currently running in and will be off to Digitrains in Lincoln this afternoon to have her guts opened up and see how much room is inside for a sound decoder.

 

The detail Hornby have put in is excellent with very fine handrails and lamp irons. Quite a little smaller than I expected at 85mm over buffer beams. She's a chubby lass and weighs in at a smidge over 180gm so should have a fair haulage power.

Motor is almost silent and very smooth. Very pleased with her.

Dsc04901.jpg.e4d999faa4a07bd313d9ee2684eb2d0f.jpg

 

Dsc04902.jpg.3a691d3360426b3220ddd51af25dedc4.jpg

 

Very nice Martin.

 

Can you please tell me the wheel diameter and the wheelbase?

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On 28/08/2019 at 15:24, Martin S-C said:

The other two are maybe closer. Freshwater is perhaps a bit too dirty. The trouble is its so subjective and I can only say "Yep! That's it exactly!" when I get there.

Below the footplate is perhaps light-to-moderate grease, oil and brake dust but nothing more. On the footplate, cab roof and smokebox some patina of dust and ash that has settled from airborne particles and got smeared about by the crews boots, with perhaps a weeny bit less of a patina on the boiler top.

Then very subtle things you can only achieve with a tiny brush and hours of painstaking work like dirt on the cab steps, paint chips on the handrails and very minimal gatherings of dirt in small corners.

An airbrush won't do it and I have tried to do this effect on wagons and they just seem to stay clean! If I use a dirt wash heavy enough to show, it then becomes too heavy. Quite frustrating!

The weathering of wagons and industrial engines in our time period is a difficult one, I have found. It's easier for 1960s modellers because they have colour photos to work from and by then a lot of steam engines were very neglected. I think it's easier to weather something to a filthy and neglected state than it is to a working but well-kept state.

 

My own approach is not to go into fine detail, such as chips on the handrails as I think you really have to follow that up in everything you build, paint and weather and I really can't be bothered with that, so I have a quick formulaic approach so everything is done to a similar standard.

 

On kits and scratchbuilt engines I finish them with a semi-gloss varnish and with RTR I polish them up using T-cut, on a cotton bud. I then use Humbrol metalcote 'polished steel' on the edges of cab steps, regulator handles etc. - anywhere that paint would wear off but the metal remain shiny in use.

 

On RTR I go over the black smokeboxes and running plates and cab roofs  (the latter only if they are black)  with a matt varnish to take the shine off and to assist weathering powders in sticking.

 

Then it's down to Mig powders. Tiny traces of rust on cab steps. An ash-coloured powder under where the smokebox door and soot black over everything else, brushing it on the top of the tank/boiler, cab running plate. I then brush off most of it and leave some on the more exposed parts and more in the nooks and crannies around the dome etc.

 

The Mig powders can be mixed with water to be painted on and I sometimes use this on buffer beams. When dry it can be taken off with a stiff brush or cotton bud and leaves the powder in the nooks and crannies around the buffers.

 

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Not quite Martyn Welch stuff but better than nothing.

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They look excellent Dave. I intend my colliery/industrial engines to have that level of dirt, but for my railway company engines that would still be too dirty. Its a difficult thing to achieve and as I'm finding an even more difficult thing to build up the courage to make a start.

Wilf was weathered for me by a professional and I told him I wanted "worked hard but well cared for, not too dirty" and it came back absolutely filthy! I think he must have worked from pictures of NCB engines in the 1970s. I rejected it and said, no, try again, he took off most of the dirt and worked on it some more but its still too dirty for me.

Dsc03021.jpg.ef09003401e054cb2fda94fe444bf44e.jpg

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I don't know; that may not be too dirty for your chosen year of 1919. The country has gone through 4 years of war, where colliery engines would have been worked hard and possibly without their usual crews. There probably wasn't the time or care to be  cleaning and polishing industrial engines through those years and a Peckett W4 could already be over 30 years old by then anyway, so is bound to have gained some scratches, knocks and dents.

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I think its probably right to leave a bit along the tops of saddle tanks fairly grubby, but to have cleanliness (not dirt shadows) behind the handrails.

 

This is based on my brief, and largely unsuccessful, attempt at loco cleaning when I volunteered at the KESR. At the time, the main engines were Austerities and Yankee Tanks, and cleaning the tops of the saddle tanks was quite an extra job, which couldn't be done by simply standing on the running plate. One had to clamber up on top, and stand on the handrail, and it was awkward to balance a pail of cleaning oil where you could actually access it, so that was left teetering on top of the handrail ........ once, I managed in my clumsiness to kick the bucket(!), spilling it all over the job, which took ages to clean-up.

 

In short, imagine your loco crew standing on the running plate. Now, how far up the tank can they reach? Perhaps they are diligent, and mount the step that is used when opening the tank filler lid, and stretch out and polish from there. But, the very top, for much of its length, will still get skimped. Cleaning behind handrails is easy though, so will get done if anything gets done.

 

Incidentally, if you look at old pictures of people cleaning locos, you will rarely see ladders or trestles being used, the whole thing seems to have been done by clambering about, even on whopping-great express engines ....... and, its a long way to fall from the top of a loco!

 

 

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