Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Edwardian]

Thank you James, coming from you, that's a highly valued comment.

 

Might I have permission to add a WNR wagon or two when you have thrashed out the details of type and livery?

 

Martin,

 

I'd be honoured.  The WNR wagon fleet will have more than its fair share of odds and end, however, I intend to introduce a standard type; a 4-plank, with later examples to 5-planks.  You are not the first to ask for details, so I will be working them out soon!

 

 

Thanks again, it is commentary such as yours that is so heart-warming and inspiring - it keeps me going when builders estimates jump up alarmingly and scare my bank manager! I have only been active on RMWeb a few months, after lurking for a year or so - and I have found the people here a total inspiration; great ideas, helpful suggestions, links to other people's efforts and generally everything a community should be. I would like, once the Nether Madder is in a running configuration, to offer an open invite to a running session to the fine people of this parish.

 

Here is the extended plan. Compare to that on page 1. I have tried to open things up as much as possible. The steepest gradient on the approach to Nether Madder (SE corner) is now 1 in 34 and the branch's steepest gradient has been eased to 1 in 40 which should assist the loaded quarry trains. I have begun to sketch in some scenic treatment as well - I especially wanted to shift the Wit's End terminus away from the goods yard at Great Shafting and have sketched in a small village backed by woodland here as a scenic break. The bridge that carries the line from Snarling to Borrocks and crosses the stream above Wit's End will be a timber structure in the spirit of the Weston, Cleveland and Portishead's Wick St Lawrence pier. The "Wisbech Tramway" section is sketched in as a first draft.

 

Plan_Ten.jpg

 

I saw a delightful small wooden railway bridge crossing of a stream posted on a Facebook group a few weeks ago - it was in the light railways and byways group and it was perfect, but now I cannot find it. Why I didn't save a copy I cannot fathom. I hate it when that happens.

 

Really like the plan as it has developed.  Things like back-to-back townscapes and treelines should work as scenic breaks, without the need to use backscenes to divide locations.  This is very much how the Isle of Eldernell & Mereport Railway 'system' layout is intended to work (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/109574-the-isle-of-eldernell-mereport-railway-1897/?p=3046803).

 

 

Indeed gentlemen, exactly that. Sorry Corbs, I must have been off dreaming of a Cleveland Railroad in Ohio or some other mental hiccup. Possibly involving G&Ts but who knows? Once my mind wanders, wither where it will, who can say what may happen.

 

I found the inspiration for the wooden bridge that I plan to place here:

 

Plan_Ten_Wood_Bridge.jpg

 

It was photos of one of the Blackwater bridges on the Maldon line in Essex:

 

Blackwater_01.jpg Blackwater_02.jpg Blackwater_03.jpg Blackwater_04.jpg Blackwater_05.JPG Blackwater_06.jpg Blackwater_07.jpg

 

And happily the bridge has a path at the side which I can enlarge into the country lane that I need:

 

Blackwater_08.jpg

 

As to trams...

 

Wantage No.5 and train at roadside.jpg wantage-tramway.jpg

 

And this sums up the quiet bucolic sunshiney nothingness I'd like to try and convey on this section:

 

Wantage Tramway river bridge RP.jpg

 

Plus...!

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/8JMA6E5NX/hughes-steam-tram-no4-wantage-tramway

 

I like this idea, as it ties in with Madder Valley, which featured a trestle bridge, and is one of the reasons why I have also planned one.   

 

The next board on from the current Castle Aching will have a trestle bridge, based on a GER prototype at East Barsham, appropriately in Norfolk.  In reality, it might have been replaced, like the prototype, with an embankment and culvert, but this is the West Norfolk, and a trestle bridge is more fun!

Edited September 12, 2018 by Edwardian

[Martin S-C]

That is quite a serious trestle, much more of a proper bridge than my intended one which is more of a timber culvert crossing. I can almost hear the Injuns a-whoopin'.

Yes the Madder Valley's one was a pretty significant structure as well, but I wasn't so much carrying that one in my mind when I chose to go for timber on this bridge - I just sought something unusual and eclectic, something that hinted at a railway built on a miserly budget. There will be stone arches a-plenty elsewhere and plate girders just seemed too industrial at this particular location.

I have never seen a townscape between two stations used as a scenic break. I have always only even seen backscenes. The north American fraternity are very keen on the backscene thing mid-baseboard, aren't they? They get up to all kinds of tricks with isthmus- , teardrop- and peninsular-shaped baseboards with a different scene each side. I was just sat there looking at the scribbled plan and thought - "how ugly to have 12" or 18" of painted plywood between two people - why not let them socialise more as they play trains?" So I just deleted the backscene and left what was at that stage two sets of low relief buildings back to back - the logical next step was to join the two sets of half-reliefs together to make a fully 3D row of buildings and there we go.

My intent of course is that the same group of buildings are in fact two separate places, its only the two termini operators who will see it that way. Each will see the townscape behind 'his' station as being the town 'his' station serves. Perhaps it has been done before and I just haven't encountered it - I can hardly believe I've had an original idea in the world of railway modelling. If anyone knows of other instances of this trick I'd be happy to take a look at any pics or plans that might be around.

[Edwardian]

My intent of course is that the same group of buildings are in fact two separate places, its only the two termini operators who will see it that way. Each will see the townscape behind 'his' station as being the town 'his' station serves. Perhaps it has been done before and I just haven't encountered it - I can hardly believe I've had an original idea in the world of railway modelling. If anyone knows of other instances of this trick I'd be happy to take a look at any pics or plans that might be around.

 

Yes, the Eldnernell scheme depends on several such back-to back scenes.

 

In your scheme, you cannot see the town(s) from the sides, leaving the option of working to forced perspective in the centre and back out to full size.  As forced perspective means introducing an upward slop (the lower lines to the vanishing point), the full size front of scene buildings are lower, so you can arrange matters so that you cannot see through the town(s) to the other side.

 

 

That is quite a serious trestle, much more of a proper bridge than my intended one which is more of a timber culvert crossing. I can almost hear the Injuns a-whoopin'.

 

 

 

Yes, well, stick to the low one, then we'll have covered the range between us!

[Nearholmer]

Have a look at this copy of RM https://archive.org/details/RailwayModellerAugust1963

 

The layout of the month is the less famous of the Borchesters, and I think it is using buildings on high the ground as a view-block in the way discussed.

 

Coincidentally also covers the MVR’s arrival at Pendon......... chuffing long time ago!

Kevin

Edited September 12, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Martin S-C]

I happen to have really liked that Borchester for decades. It was a layout that stuck in my mind for years because it implied "northern" (or at least midlands) "grit" so well. Everything looked like 30s or 50s Bradford, I thought it was very well done.

 

EDIT AFTER A FEW DAYS WHEN MY MEMORY HAD RE-ENGAGED: I was wrong. The layout I always liked was "Stephenton" from the April 1959 RM. It and "Borchester" were both based on the same CJF plan of about 1956. I recall that "Stephenton" was the first layout I ever recall that had weathered buildings, rolling stock and road vehicles. I was transfixed - this was a model of reality!

Edited September 18, 2018 by Martin S-C

[Martin S-C]

After a few days of weathering wagons for a friend and other non-modelling goings-on that distracted me, I have picked up a couple of projects. First, I realised I had no period brake vans that were usable. I had bought three Bachmann brakes at the beginning of the year but these were all too late for my chosen period - like so many others I began buying rolling stock I liked before my focus on what I really wanted and needed had narrowed. Those three vans have gone into my "for resale" box.

Some months ago I bought a set of S&DJR and MR wagons on e-Bay with about 6 or 7 wagons in each set. The S&DJR 3-planks, the S&DJR cattle wagon and the MR cattle wagon and box vans that I've shown before on this thread were in these sets. The wagons are mainly Ratio or Slaters kits pre-built. Kit construction is sound but the paint jobs were a little wanting.

There were three brake vans. A Midland 10 tonner, an S&DJR 10 tonner and the very nice D&S brass and white metal S&DJR 6-wheel 20 tonner. I dug these out of their boxes the other day and took a look.
 

The Midland Railway 10 tonner came with moulded-on plastic handrails so all these had to come off. I've been adding brass wire handrails and have also added metal wheels, some under-body weight and Bachmann couplings. I plan to add some wire linkages under the chassis to represent the rather complex and visible brake gear. For the Nether Madder railway version I have added a full width handrail at the verandah end (the Midland vans had only a short rail in front of the door which I always thought looked strange).


As bought

Current state of progress
 

The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway 4-wheel 10-ton van came with some rather grim and over-scale handrail knobs holding the hand rails on so all this had to be removed. New brass wire handrails have been added, as well as wheels, weight and couplings same as the Midland van. The handbrake rod and hand wheel were very over scale so I cut these down and moved them a little. I also moved the stove chimney more to one side because I can!

As bought

 

Current state of progress

 

Both these vans are absolutely tiny at just under 70mm over buffers which makes them very useful on the NM&GSR where sidings and passing loops are short.

 

Finally a really nice model, the D&S brass kit with its white metal framing overlay, the S&DJR 20-ton 6-wheel brake. This van will be allocated exclusively to coal trains running between Deep Shafting Colliery and Nether Madder terminus, and between the colliery and the Madder Valley Railway exchange sidings, both these runs involving heavy gradients. The model had been well built and painted but no detail work had been done on it. Fortunately the builder made a good job of the delicate and complex brake gubbins under the floor. Once again metal wheels and tension hook couplings were added as well as all the necessary handrails and door handles from brass wire.

 

As bought

 

Current state of progress
 

I need to source some lamp iron castings or brass etches to fit to all three vans as each carried no less than ten of these fairly large lumps of iron. I've had a recommendation to use cut-up 'bambi' small staples so will go in search of a box in the week. After the lamp irons its painting time. The two S&D vans will be painted in the GSR (Great Shafting Railway) freight livery of a bauxite shade with white lettering. The Midland van will carry the slate grey livery of the NMR (Nether Madder Railway) again with white lettering. I have two Slaters North Eastern Dia.V1 brake van kits to build; the nice ones with the birdcage roof lookouts which will also be GSR vans. I then have three more Midland van kits to build which will be NM&GSR. Along with my single WELR van (a brass kit of a diminutive Pontnewynedd GWR van) this will complete the fleet - for now at least... there's plenty more in the box of kits that need building.

 

[St Enodoc]

After a few days of weathering wagons for a friend and other non-modelling goings-on that distracted me, I have picked up a couple of projects. First, I realised I had no period brake vans that were usable. I had bought three Bachmann brakes at the beginning of the year but these were all too late for my chosen period - like so many others I began buying rolling stock I liked before my focus on what I really wanted and needed had narrowed. Those three vans have gone into my "for resale" box.

 

Some months ago I bought a set of S&DJR and MR wagons on e-Bay with about 6 or 7 wagons in each set. The S&DJR 3-planks, the S&DJR cattle wagon and the MR cattle wagon and box vans that I've shown before on this thread were in these sets. The wagons are mainly Ratio or Slaters kits pre-built. Kit construction is sound but the paint jobs were a little wanting.

 

There were three brake vans. A Midland 10 tonner, an S&DJR 10 tonner and the very nice D&S brass and white metal S&DJR 6-wheel 20 tonner. I dug these out of their boxes the other day and took a look.

 

The Midland Railway 10 tonner came with moulded-on plastic handrails so all these had to come off. I've been adding brass wire handrails and have also added metal wheels, some under-body weight and Bachmann couplings. I plan to add some wire linkages under the chassis to represent the rather complex and visible brake gear. For the Nether Madder railway version I have added a full width handrail at the verandah end (the Midland vans had only a short rail in front of the door which I always thought looked strange).

 

MR 4 wheel.jpg

As bought

 

Dsc01385.jpg

Current state of progress

 

The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway 4-wheel 10-ton van came with some rather grim and over-scale handrail knobs holding the hand rails on so all this had to be removed. New brass wire handrails have been added, as well as wheels, weight and couplings same as the Midland van. The handbrake rod and hand wheel were very over scale so I cut these down and moved them a little. I also moved the stove chimney more to one side because I can!

 

SDJR 4 wheel.jpg

As bought

 

Dsc01388.jpg

Current state of progress

 

Both these vans are absolutely tiny at just under 70mm over buffers which makes them very useful on the NM&GSR where sidings and passing loops are short.

 

Finally a really nice model, the D&S brass kit with its white metal framing overlay, the S&DJR 20-ton 6-wheel brake. This van will be allocated exclusively to coal trains running between Deep Shafting Colliery and Nether Madder terminus, and between the colliery and the Madder Valley Railway exchange sidings, both these runs involving heavy gradients. The model had been well built and painted but no detail work had been done on it. Fortunately the builder made a good job of the delicate and complex brake gubbins under the floor. Once again metal wheels and tension hook couplings were added as well as all the necessary handrails and door handles from brass wire.

 

SDJR 6 wheel.jpg

As bought

 

Dsc01391.jpg Dsc01394.jpg

Current state of progress

 

I need to source some lamp iron castings or brass etches to fit to all three vans as each carried no less than ten of these fairly large lumps of iron. I've had a recommendation to use cut-up 'bambi' small staples so will go in search of a box in the week. After the lamp irons its painting time. The two S&D vans will be painted in the GSR (Great Shafting Railway) freight livery of a bauxite shade with white lettering. The Midland van will carry the slate grey livery of the NMR (Nether Madder Railway) again with white lettering. I have two Slaters North Eastern Dia.V1 brake van kits to build; the nice ones with the birdcage roof lookouts which will also be GSR vans. I then have three more Midland van kits to build which will be NM&GSR. Along with my single WELR van (a brass kit of a diminutive Pontnewynedd GWR van) this will complete the fleet - for now at least... there's plenty more in the box of kits that need building.

Staples are good as, being made of steel, you can use them with lamps that have micromagnets embedded in them.

[tebee]

Because I'm taking inspiration from such greats as the Madder Valley, the Craig and Mertonford and the Aire Valley lines I wanted to include a few wagons "from" these famous layouts both as fun and as a small tribute. I had some rather crude 1980s Grahman Farish LNER opens available and a battered Hornby 'troublesome truck' (a car boot buy for 50p!) so replaced the couplings and fitted steel wheels then hacked most of the brake gear off replacing with parts from my stock of Ratio and POWsides kits. Given that the originals were definitely children of their era (1930s to 1960s) the non-accurate appearance was an asset rather than a problem - I like the crude appearance, I feel like its in the spirit of these pioneering model railways.

 

I realised after I took the pics that the interiors need weathering and realised after I uploaded them to Facebook that the C&M ones need the ironwork blackening. Argh.

 

And yep, I know the C&M and AVR were narrow gauge. In my alternate universe that pins off from three other alternate universes these companies owned a few standard gauge wagons. (TL;DR Rule 1 applies).

 

Results plus the originals:

 

Dsc01022.jpg

 

Dsc00267.jpg

 

Dsc01023.jpg

 

Craig and Mertonford Open.jpg

 

Dsc01024.jpg

 

AVR_open_wagon.jpg

 

AVR_open_wagon_02.jpg

 

 

Playing catch up on this thread I'm afraid. You might like to know that Derek Naylor of Aire Valley fame, did drawings of all rolling stock - oddly enough apart from the still existing horse box, which he'd forgotten all about. A few years before his death I helped him scan these so we could share them with the world .

 

This is sheet with the dropsided wagon on it - it's modeled after a wagon on one of the smaller Irish 3ft gauge lines, I forget which. 

 

Full set can be downloaded in PDF form here http://tbmod.com/rm/Aire%20Valley%20rly%20Stock%20drawings.pdf

 

Complete set of AVR articles http://tbmod.com/rm/Aire%20Valley%20complete.pdf

 

 

I once upon a time started building  a line very much like yours myself, although I've sold some of the stock off I still have a fair amount and may try to do it again someday.

 

I also have a system layout, much the same size, in my garage, though it american HO and uses a different principal to get a long point to point run in the space. Unfortunately I'm currently the other side of the world from it !

 

Tom

[Martin S-C]

Staples are good as, being made of steel, you can use them with lamps that have micromagnets embedded in them.

Now that idea I do like. Ten points to Gryffindor.

[Martin S-C]

Full set can be downloaded in PDF form here http://tbmod.com/rm/Aire%20Valley%20rly%20Stock%20drawings.pdf

 

Complete set of AVR articles http://tbmod.com/rm/Aire%20Valley%20complete.pdf

 

Tom

 

Thank you so much. This is incredible! So very useful. I shall enjoy poring over these for hours. I can see another AVR wagon coming out of the Nether Madder workshops based on one of these.

[Martin S-C]

Next project! After the brake vans - some passenger coaches.

 

I've several Ratio GWR 4-wheeler kits to build (and hack about) but first, I shall indulge myself in that age-old and well practised past time of chopping up and detailing some Hornby clerestories. I feel I am on safe ground here as many intrepid souls have trod this well worn path before me...

 

First off, inaccurate bogies. Guh. Away with you, hellspawn! Replaced by 3D prints from Stafford Road Models on Shapeways. These are the first 3D printed products I've modelled with and they are superb, very robust, yet flexible. The axle boxes just needed a little reaming out with a pin drill to accept brass 'top hat' bearings and then 12mm plain disc wheelsets just popped easily in. They are extremely free running and even come with an NEM pocket for a Bachmann coupler to slide right in. I used the Dean 7-foot bogies with footboards on the short non-corridor coaches and the Dean 8-foot 6-inch bogies with footboards on the larger corridor brake third. I need 2 more 7-foot bogies for a third non-corridor coach I have.
 

The plan is just to add details to the two non-corridor vehicles and repaint them. The corridor brake third is going to get some cut-and-shut surgery with about 65mm being removed from the central luggage storage area to reduce the coach from a 56-footer down to a cute stumpy little 38-footer; much more suited to my railway.
 

The third non-corridor coach will have one whole compartment cut out reducing it to six compartments and shortening it from a 46-footer to a 40-footer.
 

The resulting coaches will not be historically accurate but then the originals weren't either. And since my railway is fictional I can do as I like

 

The two non-corridor coaches at top right. The corridor brake third is in bits in the foreground.


Stafford Road Works 3D printed 7-foot Dean bogie. Its a little raw but as this will get a good coat of track dirt colour and then more grime and weathering on top, I won't bother with smoothing it. I am not sure I'd want to buy something as detailed and needing to be clean and smooth like a loco body in this material.


Proposed cut lines on the 56 foot corridor brake.


So we get a cute little 38ft brake. I may be able to cobble together a small 4-wheel luggage van out of the discarded section. I have a terrible weakness for small NPCS vehicles.


Chop lines on the 46 foot non-corridor.

To give us a 6-compartment 40-footer.

 

I expect a thousand sawn up Tri-Ang and Hornby clerestories have laid like this on a thousand modellers workbenches over the decades; and every person was thinking just as I was ... "Oh plop(*), what have I done?"


...however nothing that a smear of plastic putty and a bit of wet and dry can't fix.

 

One pair will wear the NMR green-and-cream livery (think Cambrian Railway), the other the GSR's Prussian blue-and-cream, thusly:


(*) or another expletive applicable to the level of angst.
 

[Edwardian]

I like the Triangs. They take quite a bit of hacking to get close to pukka GW diagrams, but are good for chopping down to 4 and 6-wheel coaches.

 

And that livery does seem to be a popular livery ... !

[Martin S-C]

I see you are a past master at this.

For my 4-wheelers I'm going to muck about with some Ratio kits just as everybody else has done! I have some brass Shirescenes sides to convert one of them to a different diagram so this will be my very first foray into brass etch work. Wish me luck!

The older Tri-Ang/Hornby non-corridor bodies are much easier to chop about because the roof is a separate moulding. With the more recent coaches Hornby made it integral with the sides so its harder to get a smooth curve. At least my coaches only have to look English, they don't have to conform accurately to any specific diagram. I don't think I could ever be a true-scale historical modeller in the mould of Bob Essery or David Jenkinson, my attention span falls off far too soon.

[DLT]

Lovely "cut & shut" jobs on those coaches Martin, very effective.

 

Cheers, Dave.

[Martin S-C]

Hi Dave.

Please note the first two after the "red lines - I'm going to make an incision here" pictures are digital mock ups - so give your thanks to trusty old Paint Shop Pro, not me. My first attempt at shortening a coach are the last two pics before the Cambrian and S&DJR models. The gaps at present are huge; I need to pop down the local model shop and grab some plastic putty. Might have a better looking picture by tomorrow evening.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Martin S-C

[Martin S-C]

Pressing on... Now ready for a lick of paint.

[Martin S-C]

Ooh, look, a nice new shiny shed.

 

And the garage is empty! Empty of all the crud I've dumped in it over the last 3 months since I Iast cleaned the ruddy thing out!

 

And all the junk has been stuffed into the shed - though its not all junk - a lot of it is model buildings, boxes of kits and modelling things, like ballast, paint and such.

 

So this means the garage is now ready for the builder's lads to begin work... this FRIDAY! Ta da!

(can you tell I'm excited?)

 

(today was also perfect weather for emptying garages and stuffing their contents into sheds)

[Nearholmer]

Exciting indeed. Keep us all posted.

[Northroader]

Oh, goody, now we can start planning a layout to go in the little shed as well.

[Stubby47]

Oh, goody, now we can start planning a layout to go in the little shed as well.

 

But then you'll need a 2nd new shed to put all the stuff from the 1st new shed in...

[ian]

But then you'll need a 2nd new shed to put all the stuff from the 1st new shed in...

A second shed?

 

[Nearholmer]

.

[Martin S-C]

Oh, goody, now we can start planning a layout to go in the little shed as well.

It's 8 x 6, so please send your submissions to:

 

First Shed Layout Planning Committee

Second Shed Behind the First Shed

Across from the Garage and Round the Corner a Bit

Peterborough.

[Nearholmer]

Actually, based on the photo I posted above, I’ve just had a vision of CJF, pens in outside top pocket, holding out on the palm of his hand a model of CJF, holding out on the palm of his hand ......

 

This artwork is to be called ‘sixty layout designers for small spaces’.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Martin S-C]

I'd like to see CJF design a layout to fit in a cupboard under these stairs.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Martin S-C