Nether Madder and Green Soudley Rly

[Martin S-C]

Thanks, yes, I looked at those Bachmann hoses a while ago but they hold the stock too far apart. The 4-wheelers I'm starting out on now will have been upgraded since they were built; so gas lighting and vac brakes. Although they are Oldburys and would have been used on what became the Southern (air brakes) my fantasy world doesn't take that into account - I especially wanted a 4-wheel rake that wasn't Ratio or the new Hattons or Hornbys; something that was unusual.

I'll be using the fixed couplers between other coaches as well if I can find one that works and doesn't hold the vehicles too far apart. Some are kits and some don't have NEM mounts so that's another consideration. Something simple that doesn't need NEM mounts adding first would be a bonus in many cases.

[Nick C]

Bill Bedford used to make lost-wax coach couplings that looked like a rigid screw coupling and brake/heat hoses. Looks like they're not available at the moment though.

 

I'd be inclinded to just go for a length of stiff wire, bent into a U shape with one end glued into one coach, and the other a loose-ish fit into a hole in the floor of the next.

 

edit - or a L shape, with a small loop at the end that can be screwed to the first coach, so it can pivot at both ends.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Nick C

[Denbridge]

1 minute ago, Nick C said:

Bill Bedford used to make lost-wax coach couplings that looked like a rigid screw coupling and brake/heat hoses. Looks like they're not available at the moment though.

 

I'd be inclinded to just go for a length of stiff wire, bent into a U shape with one end glued into one coach, and the other a loose-ish fit into a hole in the floor of the next.

 

edit - or a L shape, with a small loop at the end that can be screwed to the first coach, so it can pivot at both ends.

Brassmasters produce list wax castings for screw or buckeye couplings complete with pipes, at a price

[Nick C]

2 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Brassmasters produce list wax castings for screw or buckeye couplings complete with pipes, at a price

Yep, they're the ones I was thinking of. As you say though, not cheap!

[Regularity]

Do you want these, perchance?

 

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/coach_couplings.htm

 

[Martin S-C]

Very nice, in fact pretty much perfect - except as has been pointed out - for the price.

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

Very nice, in fact pretty much perfect - except as has been pointed out - for the price.

 

You pays your money and makes your choice.

[Regularity]

Quality pays in the long run.

[Regularity]

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

Very nice, in fact pretty much perfect - except as has been pointed out - for the price.

Think of it like this.

If you were to make them yourself, how long would it take, how many rejects would there be before you achieved consistency, and how much would the materials cost you, including any jigs you might need to make to ensure consistent assembly?

The median national household income is about £20 an hour.

Work that into the cost equation.

These are batch, not mass, produced items so economies of scale don’t compare well with (for example) tension-locks.

 

You probably know all this already, but whenever I hear people complaining about the “price” of an artisan product, I feel that they are under appreciating the value.

 

[Denbridge]

1 minute ago, Regularity said:

Think of it like this.

If you were to make them yourself, how long would it take, how many rejects would there be before you achieved consistency, and how much would the materials cost you, including any jigs you might need to make to ensure consistent assembly?

The median national household income is about £20 an hour.

Work that into the cost equation.

These are batch, not mass, produced items so economies of scale don’t compare well with (for example) tension-locks.

 

You probably know all this already, but whenever I hear people complaining about the “price” of an artisan product, I feel that they are under appreciating the value.

 

I wasn't complaining about the price, just hinting they aren't cheap, indeed I have used them on a number of vehicles. 

[Corbs]

3 hours ago, Martin S-C said:

Thanks Corbs, those look good and the seller makes various height adjusted ones as well. What spacing between vehicles do they give - have you a photos of them in use please?

 

like zis

 

These are the 3 links with medium step-up - not the ultra big step-up.

 

What I did though was buy one of the taster packs and experimented with a few until I knew what to order. No buffer lock with these ones on the old layout. You might be able to get closer coupled ones.

 

 

EDIT guide is on the website
https://jamestrainparts.com/shop/couplings/oo-gauge-fixed-link-wagon-couplings/

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Corbs

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

Quality pays in the long run.

 

So long as your executors recognise that these things have value.

[Martin S-C]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

You probably know all this already, but whenever I hear people complaining about the “price” of an artisan product, I feel that they are under appreciating the value.

 

£8 a pair (or is it £8 each?) - and there is a lot more user assembly required - a LOT more - vs under a tenner for several 3D printed items. To me there's no need to even hesitate at which choice. If I had more money I might consider the brass product but even then the 3D items are clearly better value per unit although I agree there's the fitting of NEM pocket holders under stock which doesn't have them and the fact the mock-up screw link would look a little nicer, but even so I'd have to be 1) a lot more financially better off and 2) possess possibly better modelling skills in brass to buy those.

You obviously have your opinions, preferences and modelling aims and I appreciate that, but each modeller has a different set of variables at play.

Given the financial constraints the batch manufacturer is working under one might ask why haven't they moved to 3D printed items as well as that is now the medium of choice for small manufacturers and brass, in some applications (not all) is outdated technology that has had its day.

I need to bear in mind also that the coaches cost me £10 each, so at either £8 each or even £8 a pair those couplings are over-priced, in relative terms to me.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Martin S-C

[Corbs]

I wonder why the 3D printing guy doesn't do screw couplings, maybe it's too fine for shapeways.

Matt Wicks makes cheap NEM converter pockets
https://mademe.co.uk/shop/vectis-3d-models/?fbclid=IwAR3i2udF_CZkibC0l-4YYtUbcpURYpZgMtfrNWkrOB4xlVMkyrGUdCHm1vI

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

Given the financial constraints the batch manufacturer is working under one might ask why haven't they moved to 3D printed items as well as that is now the medium of choice for small manufacturers and brass, in some applications (not all) is outdated technology that has had its day.

 

Some artisanal manufacturers may enjoy working with the techniques they grew up with and prefer to stick with them; they may have concluded that they are too old to learn new tricks. Moreover, if the items they are producing are selling, they've no good reason to change. They may have neither the capacity nor the desire to "grow the business".

[Nearholmer]

And, some customers like metal, while regarding printed plastic as far too new-fangled. The more outmoded a material or technique, the more some people like it!

[Martin S-C]

There is always resistance to new things. Look how many people don't like DCC!

(ducks for cover)

Edited October 26, 2021 by Martin S-C

[Caley Jim]

There's also the issue of strength for an item which is functional and not just cosmetic.  If there is a derailment and one coach topples over the brass coupling is very unlikely to fracture.  Will the 3D printed one be as robust?

 

Jim

[Martin S-C]

I would have thought that both would be fully fit for purpose. If they were not the manufacturer would find themselves having to deal with unhappy customers and modifying their design. However I think brass might be more likely to bend under a heavy load, perhaps if a heavy vehicle, such as a white metal coach derailed.

We can end the discussion there. The brass components - while good looking - are well out of my price range for two dozen or more vehicles, and they require a good deal more skilled assembly (e.g. soldering) than I'm comfortable with.

[Corbs]

Wouldn't recommend swinging them round your head, and granted these are not whitemetal coaches, but it's not too bad.

 

Tip: if you do get them, spray them all black when they are still on the sprue, much easier.

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Corbs

[Pacific231G]

It might be worth looking at these for screw link couplers.

 

http://www.ydmodels.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30_31&products_id=101&osCsid=6ee6f56e2576bceb02f7bb9e78261788

They're from the French YD models (Yves Desse) so technically 1:87 scale but 6 of them for €9.50 looks pretty good. Unfortunately they appear to be out of stock at the moment. I've dealt with Yves over many years (a lot of my older stock is fitted with his NEM boxes so that I can use Kadees) and it's high time I got in touch with him again so I can ask him if these are likely to be back in stock soon as they do look useful. The NEM boxes would presumably need to not be rigidly mouinted to the vehicle for what  is effectively a rigid ba but I assume that's the same for the JTP product.

I don't know what effect our self-imposed trade barriers will have had but Yves uses PayPal so possibly not too much of a problem.   

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Pacific231G

[Martin S-C]

They look good as well. Is the attachment point the standard Y-shaped push-to-fit connection into an NEM pocket? His side-on only photo doesn't make that clear. I am more interested in functionality than appearance to be honest. These ones do look a little slender but yes, please enquire when you next get in touch with him.

James Train Parts that Corbs linked to who makes the dummy functional 3-links and Instanters, are printed by Shapeways and their postal charges from EU to UK have gone crazy since Brexit but the manufacturer will do a group order where he will add your order to a block order of other customers (and for his own needs) so that deals with the higher postage costs in return for a wait of a maximum of 5 weeks. I've ordered a test set.

I went through my whole stock list last night and have the potential to need up to 50 of these between coaches with tension locks on the outer ends of rakes so given that volume then 3D prints has to be the way to go in terms of cost, regardless of any other factors. Or home-made... but I'll try a few 3D printed ones first.

[Regularity]

41 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

I went through my whole stock list last night and have the potential to need up to 50 of these between coaches

I can see immediately why cost is an issue!

Can’t you simply put a short section of bar between the coaches, mounted on a simple stub via a screw at one end, locating on a peg at the other end if you want things to be removable, or another screw for a semi-permanent arrangement?

[Harlequin]

57 minutes ago, Martin S-C said:

They look good as well. Is the attachment point the standard Y-shaped push-to-fit connection into an NEM pocket? His side-on only photo doesn't make that clear. I am more interested in functionality than appearance to be honest. These ones do look a little slender but yes, please enquire when you next get in touch with him.

James Train Parts that Corbs linked to who makes the dummy functional 3-links and Instanters, are printed by Shapeways and their postal charges from EU to UK have gone crazy since Brexit but the manufacturer will do a group order where he will add your order to a block order of other customers (and for his own needs) so that deals with the higher postage costs in return for a wait of a maximum of 5 weeks. I've ordered a test set.

I went through my whole stock list last night and have the potential to need up to 50 of these between coaches with tension locks on the outer ends of rakes so given that volume then 3D prints has to be the way to go in terms of cost, regardless of any other factors. Or home-made... but I'll try a few 3D printed ones first.

 

To overcome the ShapeWays overhead you could design your own couplings in CAD and 3D print them yourself, of course. That has the advantage that you can tweak the design to exactly suit yourself. Decent resin printers don't break the bank these days and the initial outlay can be recouped on all sorts of other modelling projects.

 

Taking the artisan manufacturer issue full circle using cutting edge technology!

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Harlequin

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, Martin S-C said:

They look good as well. Is the attachment point the standard Y-shaped push-to-fit connection into an NEM pocket? His side-on only photo doesn't make that clear. I am more interested in functionality than appearance to be honest. These ones do look a little slender but yes, please enquire when you next get in touch with him.

James Train Parts that Corbs linked to who makes the dummy functional 3-links and Instanters, are printed by Shapeways and their postal charges from EU to UK have gone crazy since Brexit but the manufacturer will do a group order where he will add your order to a block order of other customers (and for his own needs) so that deals with the higher postage costs in return for a wait of a maximum of 5 weeks. I've ordered a test set.

I went through my whole stock list last night and have the potential to need up to 50 of these between coaches with tension locks on the outer ends of rakes so given that volume then 3D prints has to be the way to go in terms of cost, regardless of any other factors. Or home-made... but I'll try a few 3D printed ones first.

Good morning Martin

Yes these do have the standard swallow tail NEM box fitting. 

 

If you just want functionality I think here are several European manufacturers who produce a simple NEM coupling bar . Yves Desse offers this one currently on promotional sale for €20 for 25 bars. It looks to be injection moulded and I don't know whether it's of his own manufacture. Where possible, Yves tends to send his products out by letter post  so, in my experience, postal charges have always been relatively low. The photos clearly show that the NEM boxes have to fitted to a close coupling unit. Simple boxes fitted to the floor of the vehicle wouldn't work but that wouild be true for any rigid bar connection and most modern wagons seem to have such a fitting (with a bad habit of drooping which is a real pain in the bottom  if, as I do, you use Kadees! )

 More details of the product here 

http://www.ydmodels.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30_31&products_id=69&osCsid=36fa21b06f6a79da072df9665ff65d29

The translation is

"These bars are used to couple rolling stock fitted with NEM boxes and elongation systems to form fixed trainsets. They are ideal for running trains whose composition does not vary because they avoid untimely uncoupling. The wagons or coupled coaches run (on straight lines) with buffers touching as shown in the photos."

The NEM does define the distance between the buffer face and the front of the coupler box and these bars are designed for that but it's worth checking for 00 stock that this has been observed (Not all manufacturers do and even for my H0 stock I have to keep several lengths of Kadee NEM couplers to allow for this)  

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Pacific231G