'CHARD Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I'm conscious that we appear to have conflated two issues here: Trespass by the under-18 age group onto railway property with the potential for misadventure and Graffiti - by definition criminal damage. One (the latter) is a subset of trespass, but its practitioners are by and large over-18. For those interested, I link the basic Wiki graffiti glossary below. As you read it it's clear that a certain mindset and code of conduct exists; no matter how far this subculture is alien to and divorced from our own chosen path, it is complex and deep-rooted in our urban social psyche. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_graffiti 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Every generation likes to think they're better than the young. Youngsters get the blame but they also have the satisfaction of being young and not old farts. As an old fart myself now I seem to sound more and more like my old and sadly departed dad despite laughing at his attitudes when I was a youth. I always think one of the issues in society is a lack of respect for young people and children. whilst not picking on your post in particular [more, the direction of the discussion..sorry, not allowed to use the word 'discussion' any more in our better society..].....I noted a recent article , from the US of A, about how parenting has changed over the decades.....and what fundamental change has occurred.....mainly due to our PC society? The nub of the matter...the fundamental change, was identified by, how modern parents are expected to behave towards their children? The thing lacking, is that modern children seem to be brought up to think they are the 'most important people' in the world. Whereas past parenting showed the kids that they were not the most important people..certainly in the family group. There, the Mother or Father were promoted as being the most important. Consequently, the kids, knowing the pecking order, grew up to respect Mum [Mom?] & Dad, thus rely on them for guidance. What followed was a basic respect for 'authority'... Nowadays, children are the ''be all & end all' of everything society does.....not surprising kids develop an over-inflated sense of their importance. Gone are the days when a parent would say 'no', and the child would respond knowing the parent knew better than they....Nowadays, I see parents literally pleading with their kids to not do something.....frequently having to enter into conversations [there, I'm modern!!] with their children to justify why the parent doesn't want them to do something. Edited July 19, 2018 by alastairq Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pharrc20 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Being a mite topical, trains have been severely delayed around Stockport this morning due to trespass. Terminations short and delays of up to 45 mins. It is also taking an age to get things back to normal. Still on-going according to latest reports... said person or persons seem to be on east side of viaduct on or near Up Slow with BT and NR on tracks as well. My 07.23 from Northwich this morning to Stockport was held there for just over an hour as Network Rail wouldn't allow train to proceed forward to Altrincham despite the preceding train having terminated already at Altrincham and formed a train back to Chester... so we ended up waiting at Northwich for this unit to pass us lord knows why as nothing in sections to Altrincham. And then once we got to Altrincham expecting the train to terminate we then were allowed to continue to Stockport with booked Navi Rd stop. On arrival at Stockport train then allowed to continue to Piccadilly but many southbound services were cancelled or delayed. All this because of... I would love to know how many hours delay and total cost this amounts to. I am all for people getting the right help but this is really overstepping the mark somewhere. And yes I do know the flip-side of a train hitting a person and a good friend has sadly had this happen to him twice whilst driving for Northern both daytime and night-time. What is the answer? I don't know but they did make an effort at Stockport some years ago by installing fencing and the rubber spike mats at each platform end. Not sure which end of the viaduct access was gained from in this mornings trespass but it needs checking and beefing up to be a stronger deterent to all. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Depot Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 From someone now, outside looking back in..the UK seems to be be going through a state of lack of law and order judging by that I see either in the TV News reports or watching police camera action etc, where no one seems to have any respect for the police etc anymore.... If this is truely the case, where will it end... Keith Spain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 From someone now, outside looking back in..the UK seems to be be going through a state of lack of law and order judging by that I see either in the TV News reports or watching police camera action etc, where no one seems to have any respect for the police etc anymore.... If this is truely the case, where will it end... Keith Spain I really enjoy watching these Police Camera programmes, but it makes my blood boil after watching all the effort that goes into catching these offenders to see the ridiculously lenient punishment these morons receive. The word deterrent might as well be deleted from the English Dictionary. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Keith The majority of people are truly law abiding on the whole, there always have been those who disregard society and its laws and mainly affect those within their own community. However in my opinion they take the efforts of understanding and assistance from well meaning liberals as a weakness to be taken advantage of. Mostly to do with drug and alcohol abuse and its supply 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2018 Still on-going according to latest reports... Still on going Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2018 Still on-going according to latest reports... And even now, it seems. One person's deranged cry for attention is holding up thousands of journeys. Not sure every nation would be so kind after nearly 12 hours. Meanwhile, it seems NR is exercising the route knowledge of a lot of traincrews! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Tranquilliser dart needed. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 From someone now, outside looking back in..the UK seems to be be going through a state of lack of law and order judging by that I see either in the TV News reports or watching police camera action etc, where no one seems to have any respect for the police etc anymore.... If this is truely the case, where will it end... Keith Spain Very possibly as likely to be a result of 24/7 rolling news and sensationalist TV show programmes, donchathink? Criminal activity is hardly a new thing. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted July 19, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2018 whilst not picking on your post in particular [more, the direction of the discussion..sorry, not allowed to use the word 'discussion' any more in our better society..].....I noted a recent article , from the US of A, about how parenting has changed over the decades.....and what fundamental change has occurred.....mainly due to our PC society? The nub of the matter...the fundamental change, was identified by, how modern parents are expected to behave towards their children? The thing lacking, is that modern children seem to be brought up to think they are the 'most important people' in the world. Whereas past parenting showed the kids that they were not the most important people..certainly in the family group. There, the Mother or Father were promoted as being the most important. Consequently, the kids, knowing the pecking order, grew up to respect Mum [Mom?] & Dad, thus rely on them for guidance. What followed was a basic respect for 'authority'... Nowadays, children are the ''be all & end all' of everything society does.....not surprising kids develop an over-inflated sense of their importance. Gone are the days when a parent would say 'no', and the child would respond knowing the parent knew better than they....Nowadays, I see parents literally pleading with their kids to not do something.....frequently having to enter into conversations [there, I'm modern!!] with their children to justify why the parent doesn't want them to do something. Some of those changes are much more about society in general than about young people. For all of my life, and I have no doubt for 100's of years previously, it has been the norm to bewail the behaviour of young people and to pretend that the next generations are behaving worse than older generations. I think young people do indeed do a lot of stupid things, that is part of growing up and in my experience it's better for people to get their idiotic phase of life out of the way at a young age. I don't see the current young generation as being in any way different from any other generation in that respect. On the other hand the great majority of youngsters and kids strike me as being basically good kids that get a bit rowdy at times. I used to be an industrial supervisor for several MEng students and I was impressed by the work ethic and level headed behaviour of my students. I used to mentor graduate trainees and younger people and my impressions were overwhelmingly positive. I look at youngsters around me on public transport, in the work place etc and I really don't see them behaving any worse than adults and older people, in fact if I take the late night train home it tends to be middle aged men and women in business attire who provide most of the obnoxious drunks. Does this mean all kids and younger people are paragons of virtue? No, but on the whole my experiences of younger people are much more positive than negative. People tend to think we should treat old people with more respect, I think that's true but I also think children and young people deserve to be treated with more respect. The media portrayal of youngsters is often shockingly negative and I'm amazed at how so many people talk down to youngsters as if they're intellectually sub-normal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 19, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2018 And even now, it seems. One person's deranged cry for attention is holding up thousands of journeys. Not sure every nation would be so kind after nearly 12 hours. Meanwhile, it seems NR is exercising the route knowledge of a lot of traincrews! Still going on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flapland Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Still going on Actually impacted by this today whilst going up to visit my Mum. 9:40 Euston to Piccadilly was allowed to pass slowly on the far right track as you leave Stockport. The gentleman is I suspect in his 50's was lying on the parapet with a few belonging and a large bottle of coke. I did take a photo which I sort of feel guilty about so won't post and have to admit it was a shock to see the person in such a risky position. Returned tonight on 19:15 to Euston, but this via Stoke trains was diverted via Style to Wilmslow, Crewe and then over Stoke. Although born and brought up in Manchester I had never perviously travelled on the Style line nor between Crewe and Stoke. Lost 30 mins to Stoke and only clawed back a few minutes more sadly. All very strange I have to say and I will be checking the more local media tomorrow to hopefully see a good outcome for all. Edited July 19, 2018 by flapland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Actually impacted by this today whilst going up to visit my Mum. 9:40 Euston to Piccadilly was allowed to pass slowly on the far right track as you leave Stockport. The gentleman is I suspect in his 50's was lying on the parapet with a few belonging and a large bottle of coke. I did take a photo which I sort of feel guilty about so won't post and have to admit it was a shock to see the person in such a risky position. Returned tonight on 19:15 to Euston, but this via Stoke trains was diverted via Style to Wilmslow, Crewe and then over Stoke. Although born and brought up in Manchester I had never perviously travelled on the Style line nor between Crewe and Stoke. Lost 30 mins to Stoke and only clawed back a few minutes more sadly. All very strange I have to say and I will be checking the more local media tomorrow to hopefully see a good outcome for all. Still ongoing, apparently. Unbelievable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 When I was at school we were read a book called The Terbulent Term Of Tyke Tyler. Now although this may seem unrelated but back in around 1984/1985 there was a chapter in this book where the main character Tyke and her friends trespass on a railway and for some reason a train approaches and I remember her friends only just jump clear of the train but she has her foot stuck under one of the rails and has to lie flat and the train passes over her. Now if there are books glorifying railway trespass and not properly highlighting the dangers then there will be children who think that they can copy what they have seen and heard. After hearing about this story that put me off going near to the railway tracks. Jump forward to the present day and after one person has trespassed on the Humber Bridge climbing the towers and walking along the suspension cables without any safety gear then posting it on social media this has then encouraged other idiots to copy the first idiot to break the law to trespass and risk life, limb not only their life but of the motorists driving below! I think you should have SPOILERS on the top of that comment for all those people who want to read old 1970s kids books. Apparently it's still in print. You must be a similar age as me as I read that book at school and I'm quite sure it was described as a Deltic. Although that might have been another book with a similar story. Something about "if I move my head to the side then I'll just fit under the engine when it goes over me as there is exactly XX inches room". Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 20, 2018 Manchester Evening News website says things are normal today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Manchester Evening News website says things are normal today. Finally ended about 04.30, rather more comments on WNXX, including reports he brought food and drink with him as well as a can of petrol, and gas for inhalation! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Just been watching Romney Sands camera on Railcam and have watched a group of waiting passengers standing on the tracks taking photos of each other including a toddler there,s no hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 The whole of this ‘the world’s going to the dogs’ thread is based on an almost certainly false premise: that youngsters trespass more than they did ‘back in the day’. I for one don’t believe for a moment that is true, quite the reverse in fact. What I do believe is that solid statistics have been collected for a few years, and that, having spotted a worrying increase, the rail industry is pumping the message hard, which is why it is now a headline topic. They’re doing the same with accidents on footpath level crossings, for the same reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Lynne's asked me to post this link on here:- http://www.youvstrain.co.uk/ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Wasn't sure where to put this, but very nearly witnessed an odd trespass incident earlier today. A man appeared from behind a waiting room on the platform facing me (I cannot recall seeing him prior), then proceeded to make a rather loud telephone conversation pacing up and down and across the quiet platform. The manner of speech and actions suggested intoxication but naturally I cannot say that for definite. The gents pacing brought him closer and closer to the platform edge and eventually found himself with feet partially over the edge, to the horror of everyone on the facing platform he went to take another step, fortunately this ended up being down the platform rather than down onto the track. His pacing then returned him to nearer the waiting room. Worrying, especially as he was looking in front of himself for the entire conversation and it wasn't even an narrow platform (one of the deepest I have seen). Fortunately the station security staff were keeping track of all this and were ready to intervene, they did in fact then keep a close presence to the gent until his train arrived. Seriously thought the gentleman was about to attempt to cross the mainline mid-station rather than over the bridge. The whole thing was quite distressing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Crass stupidity isn't confined to teenagers. This was on the BBC News Website today:- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44916009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted July 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 22, 2018 Crass stupidity isn't confined to teenagers. This was on the BBC News Website today:- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44916009 It's on the level crossings thread too. At least it's got publicity as an example of stupidity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken.W Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 (edited) Crass stupidity isn't confined to teenagers. This was on the BBC News Website today:- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44916009 Unbelievable! But why do they pixelate the guys face? He should be indentified so he can be found and prosecuted for child neglect, endangering persons on the railway, etc etc and whatever else can be found in the book to be thrown at him!! But at least someone tried to intervene.... Meanwhile, just what that guy was warned about, yesterday evening (Sat) at Chester-le-Street station (line speed 115 mph, approached northbound on a blind left-hand curve, sighting distance about 10 seconds) There were two boys, one sat on the platform edge, the other, 15 y.o. down on the track in the 4 foot. The platform apparently was crowded with people going out for the evening waiting for their train. None it would seem, tried to warn them to get clear, or failing that alert the railway, or the police who would have done so, to get trains stopped. Tragically it wastn't their train coming first, but an LNER express. The lad sat on the platform just got clear..... At least those standing on the platform doing nothing got to view of the result The Driver actually thought he'd hit them both Edited July 23, 2018 by Ken.W 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Chilling. I guess the fear for us all must be that one of our sons or grandsons will decide that that's the way to show to his mates or a group of girls that he's the most daring in the pack, just as two guys that I went to school with proved their bravery by finishing themselves off in motorcycle crashes, aged c18. I'm with 34C, at least part of the way, in that there is definitely a strand in young male behaviour that society doesn't know what to do with when it doesn't need 'death or glory boys' to send into battle on its behalf, and I'd wager that, if we think carefully, most of us will recall doing 'stupid stuff' in our teens or early twenties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now