MAINLINE MOGUL/MANOR AXLE PROBLEMS

[97xx]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

You can get conducting oils and greases* of various types but I have never seen these recommended for such things as bearing surfaces on model locos.

 

*Graphite grease is one that comes to mind.

Electrolube SOB 2X contact oil is absolutely excellent for railway stuff.

 

I have used it or precursors for 40 years.

 

Quotes from Elecrolube data sheet:

 

• Improves contact performance by increasing effective contact area
• Enhanced plastics compatibility; suitable for a range of plastics and rubbers (testing advised)
• Highly stable synthetic material, fully inhibited against oxidisation and copper corrosion
• Excellent penetration and cooling properties; prevents arcing, thus reduces contact wear
• Developed due to the use of thermoplastics in the electronics and automotive industries
• Will significantly increase contact performance and lifetime by improving contact surface

[melmerby]

2 minutes ago, 97xx said:

Electrolube SOB 2X contact oil is absolutely excellent for railway stuff.

 

I have used it or precursors for 40 years.

 

 

As an electronics guy I have always had some "lubricating switch cleaner" in stock (or the RS equivalent) but never used any on model railways

[97xx]

For those wondering if I have lost the plot trying to fabricate a chassis half...

 

If I had a CNC mill I would have made both sides anew, but as they're (a) different and (b) mirror images overall there is/was little 'economy' of manufacture doing both on a manual mill. The effort of one was around 12 hours' machining.  About the only dimension that I could rely on was 28mm + 31mm wheelbase. Everything else was a measure off of the original bit(s).

 

I do however have the opposite as a 'blank' should I feel inclined...

 

Will see tomorrow if it works!

[97xx]

4 minutes ago, melmerby said:

As an electronics guy I have always had some "lubricating switch cleaner" in stock (or the RS equivalent) but never used any on model railways

 

Yes I think the word 'cleaner' is where one needs caution as that aspect can be the issue with plastics - I seem to recall an issue with some sort of 'Servisol' that I had. The Electrolube 2x Contact OIL is however not a problem.

[vikingsmb]

On 18/07/2018 at 15:18, DavidCBroad said:

The Peters Spares axles should restore the locos to as new condition, but you must get the quartering right and get it right first time, twisting a wheel on an axle will inevitably loosen it and accelerate the deterioration.

 

The reason for wheel loosening appears to be the wheels don't make good contact with the chassis due to gunge and oil on the stub axle journal and this sets up arcing which heats the wheel and softens the axle. Adding pickups from the chassis half sides to the wheel backs reduces the arcing considerably, even one per side lets the coupling rods act as a current path and helps reduce the heating.  Conductive oil is a must.for these chassis.

 If you have 2ft radius Peco points and 2ft min radius fitting washers to reduce side play on the driving wheels gives the pick ups an easier time.  Weighting the locos is probably a bad idea for the point of view of axle life.

 

The Bachmann wheels have square peg axles and different stub axle sizes as I found when trying to fit Bachmann wheels to a Mainline GW 57XX

 

Twenty odd years ago I  added pickups from the chassis to the wheel backs on a Mainline 03  0-6-0 D loco chassis.   It was retired in favour of a Bachmann for 12 months or so and returned temporarily when the Bachmann motor burned out and the Mainline chassis is still going.   

 

My son bought "New" Bachmann Mogul and |Manor locos last year. The Mogul did 30 minutes running in before a wheel fell off twisting the coupling and connecting rod and damaging the cylinder so the option of a Bachmann  Chass is not a complete cure.

 

Thirty years ago my father in law took the motors out of Mainline Moguls and a Manor and pushed them with Hornby County 4-4-0 powered tenders.   One had Romford wheels fitted. They still run but we have since banned traction tyres so they are in the display cabinet. 

 

Around the same time I fitted Triang Hall/ B12 chassis to Mainline Manor and 43XX chassis, Both have Romford wheels and loads of lead and are still in regular service, being 2 coaches better up a 1 in 30 than the Bachmann standard chassis locos.

Hi david, have you got pictures of the modified moguls/manors with tender drive please? as i'm looking down that route with my early Bachmann ones I actually dont mind tender drive so can live with it . cheers rob

[DCB]

10 hours ago, vikingsmb said:

Hi david, have you got pictures of the modified moguls/manors with tender drive please? as i'm looking down that route with my early Bachmann ones I actually dont mind tender drive so can live with it . cheers rob

 

I can't get to any of them until next Sunday at the earliest, but I found some old photos I took to illustrate the pick up arrangement on the Manor which has Romford wheels. They are in large bushes which are shorted to both sides of the chassis which is live to the drawbar and so provides a pick up for the tender on its traction tyre side and it has insulated wheels on the other side.

The strange worm thing is a Hornby worm which was the exact size we wanted for a spacer!

The 2-6-0s have standard wheels and only one side of the chassis is connected to the drawbar.

Drawbars and tender are common to both, tender is unmodified Hornby, just repainted. 

 They tender drive locos still run well, just make the track filthy.  Best of luck

[DKGL]

I'm still running an old Mainline GWR Mogul, but I've swapped the tender for one of the current Hornby County ones.

As this has pick ups already wired in, it's not dependent on the Loco wheels, picking up current.

[vikingsmb]

10 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

 

I can't get to any of them until next Sunday at the earliest, but I found some old photos I took to illustrate the pick up arrangement on the Manor which has Romford wheels. They are in large bushes which are shorted to both sides of the chassis which is live to the drawbar and so provides a pick up for the tender on its traction tyre side and it has insulated wheels on the other side.

The strange worm thing is a Hornby worm which was the exact size we wanted for a spacer!

The 2-6-0s have standard wheels and only one side of the chassis is connected to the drawbar.

Drawbars and tender are common to both, tender is unmodified Hornby, just repainted. 

 They tender drive locos still run well, just make the track filthy.  Best of luck

Thanks mate for that, much appreciated, as the only manors i can find is hook norton manor in BR livery (late crest) or foxcote manor even though my layout is set in 1967 i'm using modellers license for steam to continue on western region till early '68 alongside blue diesels, but going back to the manors/43xx, I have a 43xx Bachmann (2002 ish) model which runs well, but I just hope Bachmann bring out a new manor class and ironed out all the problems, as the problems are putting me off getting one, Mainline I will not touch with a barge pole

Edited May 25, 2020 by vikingsmb

[97xx]

In case you haven't followed my other thread on this, the Manor is restored with a custom-milled half-chassis for the distorted one, tender pickups fitted, and a minor detail and weather...

[RobMG]

I would just like anyone who is interested to know  I have a good sound  set of wheels with coupling rods for the mogul and a Mainline motor in working order.  They are here for maybe a swap if anyone needs them.

Rob