Kernow MRC PRA china clay wagons

[meanach]

54 minutes ago, bubbles2 said:

MJT cat. No. 2372

16 inch head buffers by Dart Castings https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt.php

Ah I did wonder if they were MJT ! They are probably the only manufacturer of such things ? I’d no clue about the correct size ! Many thanks . 

[Phil Mc]

My 4 now ready for service.

Will soon be giving my ClayTigers the treatment, to run with them.

 

Cheers,

Phil.

[class37418stag]

Hello everyone 

please excuse my English 

 

I has searched online about PRA wagon has running from Cornwall to Fort William 

BUT PRA wagon has carry other powder and granular from whereabouts to whereabouts by carry other powder or granular 

I has searched for other powder and granular carry on PRA wagon and can’t find ?

 

 Thank you 

[young37215]

The PRA's were built to carry china clay from Cornwall to the Wiggins Teape paper mill at Corpach in the West Highlands being introduced in 1983 and working this activity until the early 90's. They returned empty from the West Highlands back to Cornwall for re-filling. 

 

The opening comments in this thread gives a little moreinformation about them. 

[BR(S)]

Exeter Riverside Yards by Stapleton Road, on Flickr

[lyneux]

On 13/09/2019 at 21:25, mike knowles said:

 

Ha, beaten me to it! I was just about to show details of the conversion I've done.

 

Having tried fitting the P4 wheelsets initially I was unsure whether they were binding on the backs of the W irons or on the brake gear. So after removing the wheels again I gently prised off the brake gear with a scalpel blade. Although glued in place, with a gentle bit of leverage it was possible to break the bond and remove the brakes without damage. Reinserting the wheels showed they now turned freely so no work was needed on the W irons. I reckoned the tops of the wheel treads were fouling on the bit of plastic sprue which joined the pair of brake shoes together so I just removed this and reattached each brake shoe individually, securing them with a touch of cyano glue and repositioning them to suit the wider gauge. The brake cross shafts were then replaced using slightly longer lengths of 0.31mm wire, sprung into place and secured with more cyano.

I've just today received delivery of some Accurascale PCA cement wagons and whilst not wanting to get drawn into the debate over which is the better model it does look like a similar amount of work will be required to convert them to P4.

 

 

 

Mike, that's a very helpful write-up, thank you!

 

Having eyed these up for months, I finally bought a few of these to run on Oldshaw and they look great straight out of the box.

 

That said, trying to get the wheelset out, pull wheels out to EM and then re-insert has proved a total pig. Ok, there is just about enough room to pull the supplied wheels to the correct back-to-back and re-insert them but you can't do this without the top of the wheelset fouling the sprue joining the brake gear together (as Mike has stated). So the brake gear has to come out.

 

So, where to hold the wagon to get the wheels out? There is so much fine detail all over it, it's really hard to grasp without breaking something off. I hadn't even finished removing the brake gear from one wheelset on the first wagon and I had already managed to break (and lose!) one of the small hand wheels at the end of the tarp sheet. I guess I'll be replacing this with one of Colin Craig's etches as half of it snapped off onto the floor somewhere never to be seen again. The other bits that seemed to ping off are the small cleats at the corners of the hood. Fortunately I managed to find where this pinged off to, so I have it saved ready to re-attach after re-wheeling is complete.

 

My experience of the glue holding in the brake gear was totally different. It was glued fast and no amount of coercion with a knife blade would get the bond to break. So next step, try to cut through the glue with a scalpel. This required quite a bit of force so I was worried that the blade would slip and either slice through some of that nice fine detail or worse, my finger. There is very little space to get a blade in at the correct angle due to the wire staples forming the brake gear. I gave up on this and I ended up stroking the sharp tip of a new scalpel blade 15-20 times across each joint (there are two per brake assembly) before I finally managed to free them. The same was true of trying to remove the wire rigging from the brakes to allow the blocks to be removed. Glued tight. Needed two sets of pliers and a deep breath to pull the wire end out of the block.

 

So, after an hour of swearing I finally have one wheelset and associated brake gear removed. I haven't even started on the next one! The W irons are so strong that you really need a lot of force just to get the wheelset in and out. They seem to be made of the strongest and stiffest plastic known to man!

 

I'm fairly new to EM but I've converted something like 30 different vehicles already. This could have been so much easier...

 

Guy

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by lyneux

[dj_crisp]

5 hours ago, lyneux said:

 

Mike, that's a very helpful write-up, thank you!

 

Having eyed these up for months, I finally bought a few of these to run on Oldshaw and they look great straight out of the box.

 

That said, trying to get the wheelset out, pull wheels out to EM and then re-insert has proved a total pig. Ok, there is just about enough room to pull the supplied wheels to the correct back-to-back and re-insert them but you can't do this without the top of the wheelset fouling the sprue joining the brake gear together (as Mike has stated). So the brake gear has to come out.

 

So, where to hold the wagon to get the wheels out? There is so much fine detail all over it, it's really hard to grasp without breaking something off. I hadn't even finished removing the brake gear from one wheelset on the first wagon and I had already managed to break (and lose!) one of the small hand wheels at the end of the tarp sheet. I guess I'll be replacing this with one of Colin Craig's etches as half of it snapped off onto the floor somewhere never to be seen again. The other bits that seemed to ping off are the small cleats at the corners of the hood. Fortunately I managed to find where this pinged off to, so I have it saved ready to re-attach after re-wheeling is complete.

 

My experience of the glue holding in the brake gear was totally different. It was glued fast and no amount of coercion with a knife blade would get the bond to break. So next step, try to cut through the glue with a scalpel. This required quite a bit of force so I was worried that the blade would slip and either slice through some of that nice fine detail or worse, my finger. There is very little space to get a blade in at the correct angle due to the wire staples forming the brake gear. I gave up on this and I ended up stroking the sharp tip of a new scalpel blade 15-20 times across each joint (there are two per brake assembly) before I finally managed to free them. The same was true of trying to remove the wire rigging from the brakes to allow the blocks to be removed. Glued tight. Needed two sets of pliers and a deep breath to pull the wire end out of the block.

 

So, after an hour of swearing I finally have one wheelset and associated brake gear removed. I haven't even started on the next one! The W irons are so strong that you really need a lot of force just to get the wheelset in and out. They seem to be made of the strongest and stiffest plastic known to man!

 

I'm fairly new to EM but I've converted something like 30 different vehicles already. This could have been so much easier...

 

Guy

 

 

 

 

I'm exactly where you are - one axle off on the workbench. I think I'm going to go the route of replacing the wheelset as I don't think I'll be able to get the wheel back in when pulled out to EM! 

 

Interestingly I've had zero success getting an accurascale PCA to run well following conversion so that one is also sitting on the workbench trying to work out the next step. Their PFAs were dead easy.

[Wayne 37901]

On 13/09/2019 at 21:25, mike knowles said:

 

Ha, beaten me to it! I was just about to show details of the conversion I've done.

 

Having tried fitting the P4 wheelsets initially I was unsure whether they were binding on the backs of the W irons or on the brake gear. So after removing the wheels again I gently prised off the brake gear with a scalpel blade. Although glued in place, with a gentle bit of leverage it was possible to break the bond and remove the brakes without damage. Reinserting the wheels showed they now turned freely so no work was needed on the W irons. I reckoned the tops of the wheel treads were fouling on the bit of plastic sprue which joined the pair of brake shoes together so I just removed this and reattached each brake shoe individually, securing them with a touch of cyano glue and repositioning them to suit the wider gauge. The brake cross shafts were then replaced using slightly longer lengths of 0.31mm wire, sprung into place and secured with more cyano.

I've just today received delivery of some Accurascale PCA cement wagons and whilst not wanting to get drawn into the debate over which is the better model it does look like a similar amount of work will be required to convert them to P4.

 

 

Hi Mike,

 

Another thanks from me for this. I just read Guys post over on DEMU about trying to convert these to EM. I have pair I'll be looking at soon so it'll be interesting to see how others tackle it.

 

Cheers,

Wayne

Edited May 2, 2020 by Wayne 37901

[westie7]

yup thanks from me too, not on the any time soon list but down there somewhere, cutting my teeth on OBA/OCA/SPA/ZCA etc just now

[dj_crisp]

On 02/05/2020 at 17:07, Wayne 37901 said:

Hi Mike,

 

Another thanks from me for this. I just read Guys post over on DEMU about trying to convert these to EM. I have pair I'll be looking at soon so it'll be interesting to see how others tackle it.

 

Cheers,

Wayne

 

Just done mine to EM using pretty much the same method as Mike suggested earlier.

 

I've just found some keen magib wheelsets that I forgot I stockpiled and they fit a treat. My first test on the layout they ran awfully... till I realised the back to back was slightly out due to the force needed to fit them! 

 

The brake gear does foul the wheelset so I've removed them... (it breaks for me but that's ok as the centre bit needs removing and I'm happy to stick them on individually). Will also need some longer brake linkages which I'll just use some brass wire.

 

Overall quite pleased

 

Cheers

Will

 

[slg]

Just got my 4 pack delivered this week and just found the ideal train to model.

 

Train at 1.38 being pulled by a loco that now lives just up the motorway from me, at Carnforth

 

 

[lyneux]

On 23/11/2019 at 11:30, bubbles2 said:

So I’ve fitted my chosen couplings and sprung them along with sprung buffers so they will go round corners and behave themselves by staying on the track, can anyone tell me if the round bit on the end of the air pipe should be there  or is it a moulding pip left over from the production process and should be cut off?

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

I've got to a similar point with drilling holes to remove plastic to allow for couplings and buffers. Do you mind me asking whose screw-link couplings you are using? They look like the Smiths LP8-A but when I tried to fit these they are too long and would require either cutting down or the NEM block to be removed.

 

Regarding wheels, the wheels supplied were still fouling when pulled out to EM so I ended up removing 0.1mm from the back each wheel using a pillar drill and a file. They are pretty free running now.

 

Guy

 

[bubbles2]

3 hours ago, lyneux said:

 

I've got to a similar point with drilling holes to remove plastic to allow for couplings and buffers. Do you mind me asking whose screw-link couplings you are using? They look like the Smiths LP8-A but when I tried to fit these they are too long and would require either cutting down or the NEM block to be removed.

 

Regarding wheels, the wheels supplied were still fouling when pulled out to EM so I ended up removing 0.1mm from the back each wheel using a pillar drill and a file. They are pretty free running now.

 

Guy

 

 

You are right about middle 'screw' link being LP8-A, i tend to mix and match coupling parts depending on what suits the rolling stock I'm working on the links in this case I think came from an MJT compensating W-iron etch cat. no. 2298, as these come in varying lengths and the hooks I believe are AMBIS Engineering by Alan Austin, delivered by hand from Kings Lynn, Norfolk to North Cornwall..... what service!

 

If you only have the Smiths hook you can always shorten it and drill another hole for the split pin I also often file the top and lower edges so the buffer beam slot doesn't need to be so deep, hope this helps.

 

Geoff. 

 

 

[young37215]

The pRA's are a great model but their modest 44 grams of weight makes them rather light and prone to derailment. I want to add weight to my PRA's to improve running, ideally this will be inside the wagon so as to be unobtrusive. Please correct me if I am wrong but but it seems the tops are an integrated part of the whole model and not capable of being removed.

 

There is limited space on the underside of the body and I am not keen on weights that are visible even if there was space. Has anyone found a simple way of adding weight to the PRA?

[Kernow MRC]

On 01/11/2020 at 14:35, young37215 said:

The pRA's are a great model but their modest 44 grams of weight makes them rather light and prone to derailment. I want to add weight to my PRA's to improve running, ideally this will be inside the wagon so as to be unobtrusive. Please correct me if I am wrong but but it seems the tops are an integrated part of the whole model and not capable of being removed.

 

There is limited space on the underside of the body and I am not keen on weights that are visible even if there was space. Has anyone found a simple way of adding weight to the PRA?

 

I am afraid that I haven't personally seen one of these models in the flesh but looking at the CADs on file,  the roof cover is attached the body from the inside, but the body itself is held on to the chassis by four clips located just above the in board side of each of the W Irons. Inserting something thin between the chassis and the body side at these four locations should release them.

You may need to release the hand rails of the steps from the top corners of the body at each end. 

I caveat that I haven't tried this myself and is an educated assumption from looking at the CADs so please go slow and gentle!

Good luck.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Kernow MRC

[young37215]

On 01/11/2020 at 15:10, Kernow MRC said:

the body itself is held on to the chassis by four clips located just above the in board side of each of the W Irons. Inserting something thin between the chassis and the body side at these four locations should release them

 

I have attempted to lever the body away from the chassis as suggested but without success. I slid knife blades between the body and chassis quite easily but the body is reluctant to move. Has anyone else had any success in seperating the two parts?

[198120]

Hi 

What Kernow has said is right, I have just started to weather mine and fit sprung buffers and Kadee couplings.  The body and chassis do come apart. Uploaded pictures to show where the 4 clips are.  Hope this helps.  Neil. 

[dj_crisp]

Aha. I was looking in the wrong place.

 

Thanks for the photos... Will be adding some weight inside now.

 

Cheers

Will

[young37215]

14 hours ago, 198120 said:

Hi 

What Kernow has said is right, I have just started to weather mine and fit sprung buffers and Kadee couplings.  The body and chassis do come apart. Uploaded pictures to show where the 4 clips are.  Hope this helps.  Neil. 

 

Well done, I have spent hours trying and failing to seperate the body and chassis. Please may I ask what you used to lever in between the two sections to get them apart and how you did it; I have tried various knife blades without any hint of success.  

 

[198120]

With the aid of a strong magnifier and using a small flat bladed screwdriver (the type used for spectacles). Insert the screwdriver, carefully, between the chassis and the outer rib on the body above the axle box, the one the opposite end from the hand brake lever (so as not to damage the lever); you only have to lever the body out about half a mil., then do the same on the next rib pulling the chassis down slightly and it will start to release. Once it starts to release, do the same on the other side, there is nothing else to release, just the four clips that hold the body onto the chassis. I managed to do all four wagons with no damage. As a footnote I've added 25 grammes of weight and they run and feel so much better.  Just take it very carefully. Cheers Neil.

[young37215]

Done it!

 

After much huffing, puffing and headscratching I have managed to get the body off of the chassis and add weight to the PRA's. I used a slight variation on the technique for releasing the bodyshell, I found it easier to lever at the end of the wagon rather than the side. Net effect was the same, after some gentle persuasion the two parts come apart quite easily. There are a couple of pictures on my thread showing my technique in action.  

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/119560-west-highland-line-v4/&do=findComment&comment=4224486

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by young37215

[Talltim]

Came across a photo in Scotland. 8 in this train!

 

[class37418stag]

Hello 

that PRA wagon roof can open ?

 

 Thank you 

[Phil Mc]

The real ones- yes

The model ones- no....

 

....that would have made it far too simple to add extra weight to the model !!   

 

Cheers,

Phil.

[design8027]

Did any PRA's with black frames get up to Corpach during the 80's?