Is my garden suitable?

[3rd Rail Hazel]

Hello all, I`m a newbie both here and to model railways generally. I have a spare bedroom but the idea of a nice long run for trains appeals to me so I looked to the garden. Trouble is there isn`t a lot of that either and what there is is dead boring. I`m going to attach a photo to this and what I would ask of you types is "would my "garden" be suitable for an 00 layout and if so in what format?"   Oh, as a size guide the shed at the bottom is 6 x 4 and I rent my house too so that limits me a bit. Thanks people. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by 3rd Rail Hazel

[Nearholmer]

Yes, unless the invisible photo reveals it to be on a dreadful slope.

 

You can create a trestle of any height from just above the ground to waist-high, whatever you fancy, using recycled plastic 'timber', and pin it to the ground with removable ground anchors. That way it won't rot, and you can easily remove it when the tenancy expires, leaving no damage.

 

00 is a bit small for putting very low down, because it will derail with the tiniest bit of grit, but there's a chap near me who ran a large 00 layout outdoors for many years, very successfully. That was about a foot above real ground level in most parts.

 

Recycled plastic 'timber' https://www.filcris.co.uk/category/garden/garden-railway-products

 

Ground anchors https://www.plasticshedbase.co.uk/accessories/40-ground-anchors.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv5D5gM6u3AIVKrftCh2ruQV2EAQYASABEgLf2_D_BwE

 

Kevin

[3rd Rail Hazel]

Yes, unless the invisible photo reveals it to be on a dreadful slope.

 

You can create a trestle of any height from just above the ground to waist-high, whatever you fancy, using recycled plastic 'timber', and pin it to the ground with removable ground anchors. That way it won't rot, and you can easily remove it when the tenancy expires, leaving no damage.

 

00 is a bit small for putting very low down, because it will derail with the tiniest bit of grit, but there's a chap near me who ran a large 00 layout outdoors for many years, very successfully. That was about a foot above real ground level in most parts.

 

Recycled plastic 'timber' https://www.filcris.co.uk/category/garden/garden-railway-products

 

Ground anchors https://www.plasticshedbase.co.uk/accessories/40-ground-anchors.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv5D5gM6u3AIVKrftCh2ruQV2EAQYASABEgLf2_D_BwE

 

Kevin

Ha ha, Thanks Kevin. I selected the pic but then forgot to actually attach the darn thing. Anyway, here it is pinned in place, what say you now? 

[PatB]

Plenty of room there for a big roundy-roundy for scale length trains. The she's a bit small to do much with except storage (although you could put the main station in there with the platforms extending outside). Or don't bother with a covered section and just take all stock indoors between running.

 

I agree with Nearholmer that a trestle arrangement is probably your best bet. As to track plan, I'd keep it fairly simple, with a double or single track oval and a couple of loops to allow trains to overtake or stand clear of the main line.

 

00 Outdoors, IMHO, is best utilised for watching one's more impressive motive power stretching its legs with a good load on rather than elaborate operation.

[DCB]

Edt  Now the picture is attached I can see the garden is very suitable for either a ground level layout maybe on a low wall or border along the side of the fence or an elevated railway alongside or attached to the fence,   The shed is a bit too small for anything meaningful, you need 8ft for a meaningful 00 BLT let alone a Mini Euston

 

 

Outside railways are great on sunny summer days, and great fun with a light covering of snow!  I have a 00 ground level outside line and I maintain and  operate an 00 outside branch on an inside layout which runs to a 8X2 ft  outside BLT which has a removable cover called the "Rabbit Hutch"  and can be operated with the cover on, even at night as the Hutch has LED lights giving artificial moonlight.    The outside branch means I can run 12 wagon trains on the 8 X 2ft BLT as I can shunt using the main line (see Pic with loco pulling the incoming wagons out with the out going)

 

 Trains look so much more real in daylight, real shadows as a train passes under a bridge etc. and at ground level set into the landscape they look almost real at times.

 

You have a few options, still no photos but slopes can be good.   You can have the shed at the bottom with the line at waist height and run up the garden so it comes down to ground level, or have the shed at the top and as the ground slopes away you can walk under the tracks without actually ducking.

 

Outside railways need lots of maintenance, you definitely need point frog switching as point blades need excessive maintenance scraping contacts or they don't make good enough contact when exposed to freezing wet and then very hot conditions.

 

I'm not sure if Track Power DCC actually works in adverse conditions, I suspect not.  DC is OK with heavy locos with 4 wheel pick up like my old 94XX, modern Chip enabled stock is hopeless unless the track is clean.   On board Batteries have to be the way to go if you want digital control,   My outside line is Battery, not digital yet but it looks good with Blue Diesels and 6 coach trains like the Highland to Wick/ Thurso in 1985 to 87 despite a ruling gradient of 1 in 14.   Derailments are a problem so you need guard rails to stop stock plumetting to the ground if the ground is concrete or stone.

 

Ground based railways on wood are hopeless and mine survived for two winters before they had to be replaced with concrete. Concrete cracks with ground movement so needs fiddling with every spring but mine has the track, peco streamline, ballasted with concrete us to the rail flanges. Concrete is a conductor and shorts the rails so I can't use track power, Keep the cement off the rails if you use concrete.  My line runs across a path on the level which makes crossing the tracks a doddle. Fishplates last between 2 and 30 + years depending on the stress they are under but last better when not conducting power.

 

Elevated lines need major reconstruction and frequent intervals as wood rots and warps and sags.  The 8X2 line Marine ply base has warped, all the spans have sagged and most of the posts have cone loose and had to be braced to an adjacent wall. The rails regularly pop out of the sleeper fixings on the wood base with the expansion of rails with heat and wood with moisture.  You need Stanley knife blade wide rail gaps each yard when laying on even the hottest days as The track gets really really hot on hot days, far hotter than the air temp.  Ideally each rail should have its own dropper for track power as fishplates need regular sliding up and down and doses of conducting oil to keep them working.  now you can get 4th radius N/S Set track I prefer to use it for any sharp curves, flexi will flex into dog leggy shapes on sharp curves and keeping it in place while concrete sets is always a challenge on my ground level line.

Its a real sod to lay flexi straight and level and if modelling pre 1960 it needs to be dead straight as the old guys laid track by eye and the modern multi million pound track machines are nothing like as accurate but still better than I can lay 5 consecutive yard lengths of flexi.

 

If you might be moving maybe some trestles designed to be taken down and moved easily might be the answer.  Building a dwarf  garden wall with a shelf for the railway might be good but might not go down too well with the landlord, equally a hole in the kitchen wall to access the outside line might not go down too well.

Edited July 21, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[LBRJ]

IF it was me I would try to come to an arrangement to build a nice raised flower bed down the left hand side of the garden (dwarf wall as mentioned above) and create the layout on top of that.

Make it a couple of breeze blocks high should be high enough, and it appears be about 30 foot long so that's 20 blocks a course. That is also a good height for a seat/bench.

Such a nice improvement to the garden may encourage the landlord to know the capital cost of the rent - you never know til you ask.

[37114]

As you are renting your house, I would suggest a wooden structure so it is easily removable if your landlord decides to sell up.

[3rd Rail Hazel]

Thank you all for your opinions. The shed you see in my pic would be no part of the railway as when I open the door the contents thereof fall out on me! I have considered putting an 8 x 6 shed in the other corner, aligned t`other way, for covered running. When I saw my landlord at lease renewing time she said she would be happy if I stayed here `forever` so I`m not worried about imminent eviction at any rate. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

That's an excellent garden! Seconded on build the track support in wood. Quick, cheap, easily modifed and swiftly demolished.

 

The garden can be made visually more interesting by shrubs planted on curving lines to break up the 'box' of the fences. Small leaved shrubs  like hebe, box, euonymus, which form low natural looking hills (hebe) or can be pruned to such shapes (box, euonymus) will pretty quickly provide a landscape through which the trains run. These are low maintenance plants which are tough and look after themselves.

 

I was outdoors with OO for some years, and found that a foot above ground was a safe minimum to avoid too much grit being deposited by rain splash. Never tried DCC out doors, but would want to do the experiment to see if it works well. The higher permananent voltage should mean it performs better than DC, and a cordless radio handset would be a major asset for walk around control.

 

It was great fun, and I would do it again like a shot but for the local wildlife which rips up the track in my present location, adjacent old woodland. I discovered this in the first year we moved in. But a thought has now occurred to manage this, use a farmer's 'control fence' kit to power the track when I am not around. That will provide the aversion therapy...

[Joseph_Pestell]

If you are a "newbie" and not already committed to a lot of 00, do take a look at the larger scales stuff designed for gardens. Can be remarkably cheap. Good article recently in BRM (?) about this.

 

You don't necessarily need a shed. A garden store (bunker) with lid could also work well.

[Fat Controller]

I've started, but never completed, several garden railways over the years.

The first, started when I was about 15, came to an abrupt halt when I left home to study.

The second, was a quick build in the summer of '76, which first involved clearing the garden of a lot of weeds- a radio ham on the floor above used the track as part of his aerial set-up!

Thirdly, the one in the north-of-England stopped when we had to move for economic reasons.

I've started a couple of times down here in the Sunny South, but made the error of using what I'd been told was outdoor-quality plywood. Perhaps it might be, were it in the Sahara or the Nullabor, but as soon as it rained, it de-laminated. Currently thinking about what to do, as I have one half of a double garage ready for the indoor element. 

General things to note:-

it's very useful to have a second pair of hands when setting out, laying boards etc.

If you use wooden, pre-treated, gravel boards, as I've done in the past, make sure you stand any cut ends in preservative at least overnight. 

I'd be tempted to use those fence posts as uprights for at least part of the length. Fix wooden blocks to them, then attach the boards to these.

[Mike Storey]

Whatever you do, unless you are unusually blessed, you will find the local wildlife, from birds via cats to foxes, will attempt to significantly change or remove anything you build that they can. So make it as robust as possible, and avoid ( or remove after each session) anything fragile - signals, buildings not made of concrete, fences not made of soldered metal etc.

 

I model in the garden but in 1/19 scale, and despite the larger size, heavier materials and supposed greater resistance to such attention, the varmints have broken just about anything that could be broken, even station canopies and cemented ballast. Fences and height proved to be no obstacle. So I go for greater simplicity now, and have to be content with that.

[Nearholmer]

Now that I've seen it: very suitable indeed.

 

And, without wishing to pick arguments with those who've recommended it, wood is no good.

 

It involves either lots and lots of maintenance, or lots and lots of disappointment, and often both.

 

Concrete, brick, stone, recycled plastic, non-ferrous metals, those are the durable materials. They tend to involve higher first cost than wood, but lower whole-life costs.

 

As to gauge and scale, that is very much a matter of personal choice. If you are into 00, and want somewhere to run things, a simple garden layout is a good answer, although it does rather restrict playing trains to half-decent weather and daylight hours - it's easy to forget at this time of year just how much darkness there is in the winter!

[DCB]

Now that I've seen it: very suitable indeed.

 

And, without wishing to pick arguments with those who've recommended it, wood is no good.

 

It involves either lots and lots of maintenance, or lots and lots of disappointment, and often both.

 

Concrete, brick, stone, recycled plastic, non-ferrous metals, those are the durable materials. They tend to involve higher first cost than wood, but lower whole-life costs.

 

As to gauge and scale, that is very much a matter of personal choice. If you are into 00, and want somewhere to run things, a simple garden layout is a good answer, although it does rather restrict playing trains to half-decent weather and daylight hours - it's easy to forget at this time of year just how much darkness there is in the winter!

Agree completely with all but the last paragraph.  Wood used outside needs replacement at frequent intervals in my experience.

 

I run outside in the dark, in the snow and occasionally in the rain. One problem with the rain and snow is it brings moisture into the shed which s not good and traction tyres come off when wet  A loco with lights pulling a goods with lighted brake van with tail light, or even better a fully lighted train can look magical as it makes its way along the darkened or moonlit track, add a few lighted buildings and signals and you don't need scenery on a dark night.  

 

We have an 8ft X 2ft X 1ft high cover "The Rabbit Hutch" over the outside BLT, one side opens to allow operation and it has a Poundland LED light set of 20 ish LEDs powered by 2 X AAA batteries attached which gives artificial moonlight sufficient to allow operation after dark. The station buildings will soon get their own LED lights as will the goods shed and the signal box already has lights which just need a battery box.    The "Rabbit Hutch" solution could work for bigger areas but 8X2X1 is about as much as I can lift, could always double or treble up for a proper terminus or FY

[LBRJ]

I have already told you as to the best way as how to build it.... if the landlord thinks its good (as they obviously do) its time to get along with it

 

Wood is no good as a support, well certainly not as good as some breeze blocks, with maybe  a wooden structure on top to make it all fit to the levels you want to have.

[3rd Rail Hazel]

If you are a "newbie" and not already committed to a lot of 00, do take a look at the larger scales stuff designed for gardens. Can be remarkably cheap. Good article recently in BRM (?) about this.

 

You don't necessarily need a shed. A garden store (bunker) with lid could also work well.

Trust me I did look at the larger scales but £3000+ for a 2BIL unit would wipe me out in an instant. Came to earth with a bump!

[Satan's Goldfish]

Trust me I did look at the larger scales but £3000+ for a 2BIL unit would wipe me out in an instant. Came to earth with a bump!

Does it have to 'Southern' Themed then? If not then there are much more affordable options out there.

[south_tyne]

Does it have to 'Southern' Themed then? If not then there are much more affordable options out there.

Just in case you were willing to look at other scale/gauge combinations then there do seem to be a lot of relatively affordable options out there. I've just asked a question in a separate thread which gives an example: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/136345-grs-battery-diesel-set-sm32/&do=findComment&comment=3258201