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I have very much have enjoyed reading the concept of this layout and look forwards to watching it develop, I am not aware of anyone having ever modeled this topic before. 

 

If you do wish to purchase a copy of the Crewe Works Narrow gauge book please PM me as I am also the Sales Officer

 

Best of Luck

 

David

LNWRs Chairman

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Note this 2ft 6in locomotive, Platelayer, seen at Crewe Works. The following is taken from the L&NWR Society's Facebook Page:

 

LNWR 2 Foot 6 Inch Narrow Gauge PWD Engine at Crewe Works, 'PLATELAYER' is standing in the PB yard on mixed gauge track. On the left is the boiler of another PB Dept engine. Photograph LNWRS reference RB01

 

The following information was give.

 

Mike Williams Coal doubtless stored inside the sidesheet. It was not 18th gauge (2ft 6in) and not used at Crewe. One of three documented in Baxter and elsewhere. Kitchener, Platelayer and Jim Crow.

 

Killian Keane 'used at various locations on civil engineering works, in connection with both the railway and the Shropshire Union Canal" From industrial locomotives of Cheshire Shropshire and Herefordshire, Kitchener Bagnall no. 1999/1915, Platelayer Bagnall 1410/1893, Jim Crow Hudswell Clarke 340/1894, all scrapped 1941

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Edited by mikemusson
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There was a Hudswell Clarke diesel loco called 'Crewe', built in 1930 which would look sweet and not be hard to do in 09 if you could find an outside crank 0-4-0 chassis. Minitrains might have one or N Drive Productions.

 

Dava

I'd have to respectfully disagree on it being easy, having built two chassis for one in O9 in the past 4 years. The jackshaft drive is very unlike any RTR model, and there isn't anything available with a 21mm wheelbase and outside framed.

One of the biggest problems is that the loco is only 3' wide over the footplate, so you have 18" wheels, outside framed and cranks, then the extra coupling rod to the jackshaft to fit in. Chassis MK2 ran but poorly, and was a bit wide. At some point I'll have a go at chassis MK3 in the thinnest nickel silver I can get away with and low relief springs/axle boxes for more clearance.

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Edited by brack
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Thanks, I hadn't realized you'd built this loco and it's more complex than I thought.

 

One possibility is a Mark Clark 3D print motor bogie with 21mm w/b to 9mm gauge, and ask him to leave extended axles for the fly cranks. Smallest wheels are 8.5mm.

 

https://www.locosnstuff.com/Motor-Bogie-and-Chassis-kits.php

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It is one of my many half finished locos....

Crewe/ZM9 uses a 3D printed body and chassis block. Apart from all the clearance troubles the jackshaft as it is not on the same level as the axles so the layshaft can't drive it. This chassis runs but not well, and is getting very close to the edge of the footplate, I've concluded that you just can't get away with a 3D printed chassis block for this loco (although I've successfully built several others). In some ways this chassis continues to persuade me that a wider gauge (16.5 or 32mm) would be an awful lot easier!

 

Back to topic - I do think that Crewe works would be a great idea for a small layout. My own part finished layout is a small loco works with O9 track and mixed gauge - the juxtaposition of standard and narrow gauges is visually very pleasing. The original Crewe 18" locos would be a much easier 3D printed project and one I've mulled over in the past (although they are quite ugly beasts!)

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I don't know what the rules of the LNWR contest are, but these little 18" gauge locos are so small that it might make more sense to go up-scale to, say, 7/8" on 32mm gauge, which is a delightful combination.

 

It would be an ideal scale for a wood and cardboard loco, working along the lines that the cardboard genius of RMWeb, whose name I've shamefully forgotten, uses. Very cheap, if rather time-consuming. Ideal for pensioners and students!

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I don't know what the rules of the LNWR contest are, but these little 18" gauge locos are so small that it might make more sense to go up-scale to, say, 7/8" on 32mm gauge, which is a delightful combination.

 

It would be an ideal scale for a wood and cardboard loco, working along the lines that the cardboard genius of RMWeb, whose name I've shamefully forgotten, uses. Very cheap, if rather time-consuming. Ideal for pensioners and students!

would that make it gn15?

I don't know what the rules of the LNWR contest are, but these little 18" gauge locos are so small that it might make more sense to go up-scale to, say, 7/8" on 32mm gauge, which is a delightful combination.

 

It would be an ideal scale for a wood and cardboard loco, working along the lines that the cardboard genius of RMWeb, whose name I've shamefully forgotten, uses. Very cheap, if rather time-consuming. Ideal for pensioners and students!

would that make it gn15?
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If you went to something close-ish to Gn15 (usually about 1:22.5 - 1:24 or so, about 12.25mm/ft) you might be on a winner.

I'd suggest 1:27.7 or 11mm/ft. That way you're scaled exactly to the track gauge 18"=16.5mm, and the loco wheelbase should be 3' or 33mm, with wheel diameter just short of 15mm.

The Hornby 040t chassis is 32mm wheelbase and 16mm wheel diameter....

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The big loss by going up a scale is you can't do something like this:

 

http://www.narrowgaugerailwaymuseum.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/LNW010.jpg

 

Like I said, the juxtaposition is the key.

 

I think the Hornby bill/Ben might be easier to hide the motor for Pet as it is positioned horizontally a touch higher and more central to the wheelbase. Dickie might be an easier fit for the standard Hornby 040

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I know that G scale, like a G string, is a bit elastic, but 1000/45=22.22 (usually cited as 1:22.5, oddly), and 304.8/22.22=13.7 (equally oddly, usually cited as 13.5), which is significantly different from 12.25.

 

However, the real issue with all these narrow gauge and scale combinations is the difficulty of scratch building half-convincing models of people. Mine always turn out like badly-made peg-dolls.

 

One can invent all sorts of scales, to get exact track gauges using r-t-r chassis, which is fine until it comes to finding a chap to drive your unusually-scaled loco.

 

Choosing where to compromise is always difficult, but when I was into this sort of thing, I was far happier to accept the odd millimetre or two of gauge-error, in order to get to a scale in which well-sculpted figures are available. Good model people are available in 1:19 (but very limited range of good ones), 1:22.5, 1:24, and (more limited range) 1:25. people might be hard to come by at 1:28.

Edited by Nearholmer
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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd just like to say that I'm not abandonning this thread. I'm currently trying to juggle moving house, my current modelling projects and work which is already quite difficult in itself let alone trying to add a new project to the mix! I've been doing my research and hope to start this project soon though. Thank you very much for you comments and your patience. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

If it would help, I took some fairly extensive photographs of Pet last time I was at the NRM.

Hi Tom, sorry for my late reply. Those would be very helpful thanks. Would you be able to message me please.

If it would help, I took some fairly extensive photographs of Pet last time I was at the NRM.

Hi Tom, sorry for my late reply. Those would be very helpful thanks. Would you be able to message me please.
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So I've been doing my research and I really wanted to create an operational yet photographic scene from Crewe works. The area I want to model must follow this criteria:

Locos will have worked there, it can be modelled in a fairly small space, wagons will have been there and there must be some prototype photos to give me an idea of what I'm creating. I have so far settled with the idea of modelling a scene from outside the steel foundry. The photo I have found appears to show two of the engines posing outside the steel foundry on tracks sunken into the smooth ground (possible concrete) with a drain pipe and brick wall with arches in on the back ground. The photo is dated from the 1920s but I am unsure of the photos rights so I am not going to post it in here at the moment. I will come up with some design sketched soon which will hopefully explain better what I'm trying to describe.

Edited by luke the train spotter
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  • 2 months later...

Well it's been quite some time since my last post and nothing has progressed. In the meantime though I have moved house and settled into 6th form. Now everything has calmed down I would like to finally begin my entry. I'm still unsure about the details of it but I really want it to be photographic and of a scene from Crewe works. Thanks for your patience with this thread.

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  • 1 month later...

A look at the picture of the departmental Ruston at Horwich makes me think how great it would be if the Steeple Grange Light Railway had "Wren" "Dot" or "Pet" or a replica of either engines

puffing down the bank to Middleton! One can dream...

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Maybe a loan of 'Jack' [Hunslet from Woodville] from the Statfold Barn railway could work? The Steeple Grange incline is very steep so you'd have a very hot fire if/when you reached the summit!

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Is there a future for Woolwich and Carnegie now? Not sure what the state of play is with them. Big powerful 18" locos though. There's also 2 of the big Bagnalls at Kimberley and Gwen in California. Enough 18" locos to stock a good lineup.

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  • 4 weeks later...

To divert back to the 2' 6" gauge stuff for a moment, mike already furnished a photo of platelayer, as for the other two he quotes me as having mentioned, Ive just found for sale a photo of the 'Kitchener', and an awkward looking 0-4-2st with a Gladstone style chimney which I surmise to be the 'Jim Crow'

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I wish you the very best of luck with the project, looking forward to seeing it done

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  • 1 year later...

I just joined this forum I have been working on the crew 18 inch gauge locos in various scales for quite  few years I have some NRM drawings I am redrawing the "Pet" one in an old autocad program (no 3D) I have a Gn15 Pet that I made in Brass on a Percy Bachmann chassis,

IMG_1650x800.jpg.e461e065f40cbfeddcba51e911ccdb19.jpg

 

and am currently building an 0 gauge "Pet" 

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I also made a Horwich 18 inch gauge loco called which I named Mercury it was featured on the Gn15 forum but the pictures were hosted by the photobucket forum befor the big changes to that site.

IMG_0513x1024.jpg.1cc0ce226b58e7b30cbd753ed0699f69.jpg

 

Michael

 

 

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