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TRANSITION COLIN T GIFFORD


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The track level shot of 46247 heading away from the camera as a North British Type 2 with a rake of Gresleys heads towards the camera is sublime (and has generated at least one Type 2 purchase from Dapol from me when it's released!).  The thing that strikes me about Colins art is that it is so powerfully evocative  - the composition, detail, the depth, the sharpness. Proper art this book is!

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Given that railway images by people like Colin Gifford and Ian Krause have always been 'social documentary' shots - and are even more so with the passage of time - I am disappointed that they have not been displayed in mainstream photographic galleries.   Railway photography in the UK still inhabits a separate world from 'art'.   Colin Gifford's stamps are perhaps an exception.

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On 05/06/2019 at 17:50, Stephenwolsten said:

Given that railway images by people like Colin Gifford and Ian Krause have always been 'social documentary' shots - and are even more so with the passage of time - I am disappointed that they have not been displayed in mainstream photographic galleries.   Railway photography in the UK still inhabits a separate world from 'art'.   Colin Gifford's stamps are perhaps an exception.

Yes, so many railway books are just page after page of 3/4 front wedge shots, with a total absence of humans. They may be technically good, but don't actually 'say' anything or convey anything deeper than being a nice 'pretty' picture.

 

Colin Gifford is as far removed from that style as it's possible to get and it's a pity (myself EXCLUDED!) that more publishers don't take a gamble with this style of railway book. Yes, a 3/4 front view of a Black 5 storming along the main line looks wonderful, but there is so much more to railway photography than that. Candid pictures of rail staff and machines (be they steam or diesel,or even signallers) is what creates iconic images, which is where most photo charters fall down, in the context that they are contrived. Another, often neglected, subject is the rail passenger. If one looks back at station pictures taken in the 1960s and 1970s, the fashions are every bit as interesting as the locos!

 

Congratulations Colin, you've done a great job in taking railway photography to another level. Let's hope more follow.

 

https://www.chimewhistle.co.uk/page/new-products

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Super book and excellent photography, as always - but I do wish that more extensive captions were on offer. Decline of Steam was similarly cursory in this regard, but Colin's other books - I also have Steam Finale North and Each a Glimpse - were much more informative. I'm generally a fan of extended captions (a la BRILL magazine, for example), but I recognise that, decades on, much contextual info relating to individual images may not survive. And it cuts both ways. I recently acquired a copy of a new publication, British Railways in Unseen Colour, which is a wonderful collection of RE Vincent's colour photos from the 50s and early 60s. However, the extensive captioning by the author, Kevin Robertson, in a laudable attempt to provide context, displays some real howlers. Errors in monthly magazines in the railway press can be - and usually are - corrected via subsequent letters to the editor, but unfortunately errors in railway books tend to become "fossilised" in print.

 

David      

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1 hour ago, dcordingley said:

Super book and excellent photography, as always - but I do wish that more extensive captions were on offer. Decline of Steam was similarly cursory in this regard, but Colin's other books - I also have Steam Finale North and Each a Glimpse - were much more informative. I'm generally a fan of extended captions (a la BRILL magazine, for example), but I recognise that, decades on, much contextual info relating to individual images may not survive. And it cuts both ways. I recently acquired a copy of a new publication, British Railways in Unseen Colour, which is a wonderful collection of RE Vincent's colour photos from the 50s and early 60s. However, the extensive captioning by the author, Kevin Robertson, in a laudable attempt to provide context, displays some real howlers. Errors in monthly magazines in the railway press can be - and usually are - corrected via subsequent letters to the editor, but unfortunately errors in railway books tend to become "fossilised" in print.

 

David      

 

That’s an interesting observation. But think on this....that most of these photographs contain such a myriad of detail that you would need long paragraphs of print to include most of it.In any case they were taken over 50 years ago ,many of them distance panoramic images,so that Colin would have been extremely challenged to recall it for publication now. A tall order indeed when you are concentrating on that one particular shot with film in the camera that needed the minutest and most delicate touch of  exposure focus,timing and depth of field.No digital images here....just raw skill and an artist’s eye.It is the latter that sets Colin Gifford apart.

 

   This is not rail photography. It is a revealing social document of a period in time set against our railways in a landscape of industrial activity,urban and rural landscapes most of which is long gone......even the hills now sprout wind farms. As an example,plate 133 is taken at Harrow on the Hill In 1956 and has a GC B1 alongside a Met LT BoBo.Two weeks ago,I used the station on Betjeman’ s Met  catching a train to Baker Sreet on modern 21stC stock.

 

    Photography is art.It can and should sometimes speak for itself.If you love art and browse paintings in ,for instance,Tate Britain,you might find,as I do,the provided audio guides a distraction from the enjoyment of the painting in front of you. The Van Gogh in Britain show at this gallery is a case in point. “Starry Night” is meant to be enjoyed by just looking at it. Until recently,this exhibition was shared by another...that of Don McCullin...........

 

 

,.....a photographer and a famous one at that.His art is also an artistic document.

 

IMHO, this is the world Colin Gifford inhabits...for He is of the same mould

 

 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Chime Whistle Books said:

Indeed, a candid view of the railways and its role within society will always be much more significant than endless 3/4 front view photographs. Just because a photograph is technically good, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is a good photograph.

 

https://www.chimewhistle.co.uk/page/new-products

 

Good for you plugging your books, but can you give it a rest on the 3/4 view shots thing.

 

Many, many railway books over many years have shown very much more than 3/4 views - you must have a very limited library if that's all you can see.

 

 In the meantime we look forward to seeing what you produce yourself, do they have ISBN numbers and will they be available through other retailers and outlets?

 

And yes, Transition is just sublime, art indeed.

 

Not Jeremy

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On 05/06/2019 at 17:50, Stephenwolsten said:

Given that railway images by people like Colin Gifford and Ian Krause have always been 'social documentary' shots - and are even more so with the passage of time - I am disappointed that they have not been displayed in mainstream photographic galleries.   Railway photography in the UK still inhabits a separate world from 'art'.   Colin Gifford's stamps are perhaps an exception.

 

 

Yes, it was Ian Krause who hooked me into railway photography. I saw a four page centre spread of his in a Railway World magazine from around 1967 and knew I just had to buy a camera, even if it was a box brownie. My efforts were a bit naff but the enthusiasm for photography, as something other than just taking photos of relatives at the seaside,  had been fired-up. 

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Railway photography is a very broad church, and I think we should be wary of binary interpretations, viz 3/4 front views versus art. I have room for every interpretation in between within my modest library, and I enjoy them all. At the artistic end of the spectrum I'd point to the work of George Heiron and Ben Ashworth (sublime portraits of railways in the rural landscape), but I'm also grateful for the more traditional photography which provides us - and particularly we modellers - with such a wealth of technical detail. But my point was essentially about captioning, which I think can be done in a sympathetic and measured way: see, for example the simple captions in Colin's earlier books which I mentioned, and in Heiron's and Ashworth's work. Captions don't have to cover all the bases, but when done well I think they complement - rather than detract from - the images. For the authentic Tate Britain experience, of course, you can simply choose to ignore them....

 

David           

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I think there's a lot to be said for having only brief captions adjacent to the photographs, but those in Transition are perhaps just a bit too sparse! That said, the publisher's note included with the book indicates that more extensive captions will eventually be published online and I'm sure most of us who own the book will look forward to these appearing in due course.

Bill

 

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2 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

 

Good for you plugging your books, but can you give it a rest on the 3/4 view shots thing.

 

Many, many railway books over many years have shown very much more than 3/4 views - you must have a very limited library if that's all you can see.

 

 In the meantime we look forward to seeing what you produce yourself, do they have ISBN numbers and will they be available through other retailers and outlets?

 

And yes, Transition is just sublime, art indeed.

 

Not Jeremy

I'm making a general point, that the majority of rail books are of the 3/4 front view, no (or very few) people included type. Where there is a deviation from this style, it tends to be within the confines of a 'conservative' styled book, with the more adventurous pictures making up a small percentage of the overall content. Colin Gifford is different in the fact that his whole book is given over to iconic pictures.

 

I've been professionally involved in railway publishing for over 20 years and many mainstream publishers will not entertain an idea for a book unless they think they can shift at last 3000 copies. My professional opinion is that the way forward for these type of niche books, is relatively small print runs (such as Colin's book) as that way the unit price comes right down once you order over 250 from a printer. I would NEVER entertain print on demand (Blurb etc) as the economics just don't add up. It's far better to engage with a printer and order a relatively short print run as you also build up a relationship with said printer and,in my opinion, the quality control is superior.If you remember, Colin had to send his samples back and forth to the printer because the reproduction just wasn't quite right. I doubt if one could do that with print on demand.The print firm I'm using has sent me a wad of different types of paper(samples) etc and we've talked through various options, again , that's something that print on demand would not offer.

 

Initially the books, first one to be released next month, will be available via mail order and via the sale stands of at last one loco owning group. ISBN numbers to be released prior to publication.

 

https://www.chimewhistle.co.uk/page/new-products

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5 hours ago, dcordingley said:

Railway photography is a very broad church, and I think we should be wary of binary interpretations, viz 3/4 front views versus art. I have room for every interpretation in between within my modest library, and I enjoy them all. At the artistic end of the spectrum I'd point to the work of George Heiron and Ben Ashworth (sublime portraits of railways in the rural landscape), but I'm also grateful for the more traditional photography which provides us - and particularly we modellers - with such a wealth of technical detail. But my point was essentially about captioning, which I think can be done in a sympathetic and measured way: see, for example the simple captions in Colin's earlier books which I mentioned, and in Heiron's and Ashworth's work. Captions don't have to cover all the bases, but when done well I think they complement - rather than detract from - the images. For the authentic Tate Britain experience, of course, you can simply choose to ignore them....

 

David           

Yes, I have a number of Bradford Barton books and although they consist of primarily 3/4 views, many of the images have an added dimension, be it the inclusion of a person or, as was often the case with H.L. Ford, a train in the landscape, where the number was often not even recorded. It's about having enough imagination to be able to move away from the ordinary and create images that make you want to linger and not just turn the page. These don't necessarily have to be 'high art' pictures, just something that makes them stand out from the mundane and that's something I try to carry over into my books. The 'secret' is, in my opinion, is to move away from anything that is contrived and move more towards a candid style of photography. Professionally, Cuneo and Colin Garratt have both played a part in influencing my photography, Cuneo for his semi-impressionistic style and CG for his ability to bring a depth to a situation that many other photographers would find impossible.  However, in the finality, one has to plough one's own furrow and create a style of one's own, something that Colin Gifford has done.

 

https://www.chimewhistle.co.uk/page/new-products

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11 hours ago, Chime Whistle Books said:

I've been professionally involved in railway publishing for over 20 years and many mainstream publishers will not entertain an idea for a book unless they think they can shift at last 3000 copies..............

 

..............Initially the books, first one to be released next month, will be available via mail order and via the sale stands of at last one loco owning group. ISBN numbers to be released prior to publication.

 

 

Hmmm

 

I suspect the number is more likely to be around the 1000 mark these days in "specialist" railway publising.

 

It is best to give your books ISBNs as soon as possible and get them up on Neilsen too, so that they "exist" with proper bibliographic records that the book trade and everyone else can use and recognise.

 

I guess from your reply that you intend to, initially at least, limit distibution through the trade and instead sell them direct. Well good luck with that, but if/when you subsequently offer them through the trade then be prepared for a less than enthusiastic response!

 

Have you factored in using wholesalers into your calculations? They'll want at least 50% off but can be very useful in helping to shift stock, which is what you will inevitably need to do.

 

From your numbers then you must be digitally printing.

 

All well and good, and technology gets better all of the time, but I'm not sure the results are ever as good as litho printing.

 

Given your price point and the way in which you are "setting out your stall" then quality appears to be important to you.

 

Anyway, good luck with the whole venture, the books look and sound interesting.

 

Not Jeremy

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10 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

 

Hmmm

 

I suspect the number is more likely to be around the 1000 mark these days in "specialist" railway publising.

 

It is best to give your books ISBNs as soon as possible and get them up on Neilsen too, so that they "exist" with proper bibliographic records that the book trade and everyone else can use and recognise.

 

I guess from your reply that you intend to, initially at least, limit distibution through the trade and instead sell them direct. Well good luck with that, but if/when you subsequently offer them through the trade then be prepared for a less than enthusiastic response!

 

Have you factored in using wholesalers into your calculations? They'll want at least 50% off but can be very useful in helping to shift stock, which is what you will inevitably need to do.

 

From your numbers then you must be digitally printing.

 

All well and good, and technology gets better all of the time, but I'm not sure the results are ever as good as litho printing.

 

Given your price point and the way in which you are "setting out your stall" then quality appears to be important to you.

 

Anyway, good luck with the whole venture, the books look and sound interesting.

 

Not Jeremy

Your experience is interesting, but not one that I recognise to any great degree.

 

Only a few weeks ago, during a candid meeting between professional publishers, one transport publishing company told me that it would see 3000 copies as an absolute minimum print run, for the simple reason that it doesn't earn its first pound until 2000 copies have been sold. Ideally, it said, it aimed for a print run of around 12000 and chose proposals on the basis that it could shift something approaching that number.

 

Regarding distribution, again many publishers pick and choose, allowing their titles to be sold in sometimes just one or two chains. Again, it comes down to cost and at least one major publisher does the vast majority of its business via mail order, supplemented with a trade stand at the odd open day. This seems to be a growing trend in the age of the internet, with online shopping becoming increasingly popular with shoppers and businesses alike.

 

Regarding printing. There have been shades of Colin Gifford between myself and the printers, with numerous pages being printed on different types of paper, until the best one was chosen. Having been professionally involved in publishing for two decades, I know my way around the business. Digital printing is very good and I would not put my name to anything that I thought wasn't. I've received a lot of pre-release orders for the books, which is always a good sign.

 

Luck plays a part, but the harder I work the luckier I become. I've spent today photographing and interviewing people for my Dirt, Soot and Smoke book, which is looking rather good!

 

Glad you think my books are interesting, because they certainly are!

 

https://www.chimewhistle.co.uk/page/new-products

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Chime Whistle Books said:

Your experience is interesting, but not one that I recognise to any great degree.

 

Perhaps that is because Simon has been in the railway book trade for a rather long time now.

 

5 minutes ago, Chime Whistle Books said:

Glad you think my books are interesting, because they certainly are!

 

https://www.chimewhistle.co.uk/page/new-products

 

Well, not a bad mug shot of Ray Churchill on your home page, anyway.

 

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On 8 June 2019 at 19:19, Bill Jamieson said:

I think there's a lot to be said for having only brief captions adjacent to the photographs, but those in Transition are perhaps just a bit too sparse! That said, the publisher's note included with the book indicates that more extensive captions will eventually be published online and I'm sure most of us who own the book will look forward to these appearing in due course.

Bill

 

I remember 40 years ago when I bought Decline of Steam I was annoyed by the lack of information in the captions. I was only 14. All these years later I've learned enough from other books to be able to guess most of the details in Transition, and I can just enjoy the images.

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18 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Perhaps that is because Simon has been in the railway book trade for a rather long time now.

 

Well, not a bad mug shot of Ray Churchill on your home page, anyway.

 

I've been professionally involved in publishing for 20 plus years and what he says held true some time ago, and parts still do, but my experience in much more recent times is that things have changed and the break even/print run figures were only told to me a few weeks ago, along with the financial reasons as to why it makes commercial sense to sell direct wherever possible. Obviously, every publisher has a different take on the market and acts according to those beliefs,but big publishing houses (one of which gave me those figures during a candid discussion) tend to know which way the wind is blowing.

 

Yes, Ray is a great chap!

 

 

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13 hours ago, Chime Whistle Books said:

I've been professionally involved in publishing for 20 plus years and what he says held true some time ago, and parts still do, but my experience in much more recent times is that things have changed

 

Well, I doubt that there is little that the likes of me can say to change your firmly-held viewpoint.

 

Suffice to say that I find your choice to publicly disagree on this forum with a very experienced railway book professional and publisher, with even more experience than your '20 + years', somewhat disrespectful.

 

13 hours ago, Chime Whistle Books said:

it makes commercial sense to sell direct wherever possible

 

Let's hope this state of affairs never fully arrives. Perhaps you have not experienced the delight of visiting a proper, well-stocked transport bookshop.

 

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40 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Well, I doubt that there is little that the likes of me can say to change your firmly-held viewpoint.

 

Suffice to say that I find your choice to publicly disagree on this forum with a very experienced railway book professional and publisher, with even more experience than your '20 + years', somewhat disrespectful.

 

Let's hope this state of affairs never fully arrives. Perhaps you have not experienced the delight of visiting a proper, well-stocked transport bookshop.

 

No one has a right not to have their opinions challenged, as long as it is done in a polite and constructive manner. Imagine if the logic not to challenge was applied to Question Time.

 

I notice that the Titfield book shop is now only opening one day a week (reduced opening hours or complete closure is a growing trend within the smaller book selling businesses) which only goes to make the point about the huge shift towards online selling and the decreasing demand for a physical shop. Yes, a well stocked transport bookshop is indeed a lovely thing, but are such things financially viable in the long term, outside of major chains? I would like to think that there will not be a complete extinction of such establishments and I suspect that some will survive, just as there are photographers that still use film. One only has to look at how even Ian Allan has had to close some of its branches in the face of competition from the internet.

 

All publishers will have different experiences within the market which they operate and what works for one may not work for another. One big transport publisher recently told me that it could never justify distribution of its titles outside of the WH Smith chain, due to what it would cost, and is doing a great trade selling its titles on line, which makes up a significant percentage of its sales, a sector of the book selling business that is growing at a steady rate. I imagine that this situation will not change anytime soon.

 

https://www.chimewhistle.co.uk/page/new-products

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Chime Whistle Books said:

No one has a right not to have their opinions challenged, as long as it is done in a polite and constructive manner. Imagine if the logic not to challenge was applied to Question Time.

 

I notice that the Titfield book shop is now only opening one day a week (reduced opening hours or complete closure is a growing trend within the smaller book selling businesses) which only goes to make the point about the huge shift towards online selling and the decreasing demand for a physical shop. Yes, a well stocked transport bookshop is indeed a lovely thing, but are such things financially viable in the long term, outside of major chains? I would like to think that there will not be a complete extinction of such establishments and I suspect that some will survive, just as there are photographers that still use film. One only has to look at how even Ian Allan has had to close some of its branches in the face of competition from the internet.

 

All publishers will have different experiences within the market which they operate and what works for one may not work for another. One big transport publisher recently told me that it could never justify distribution of its titles outside of the WH Smith chain, due to what it would cost, and is doing a great trade selling its titles on line, which makes up a significant percentage of its sales, a sector of the book selling business that is growing at a steady rate. I imagine that this situation will not change anytime soon.

 

https://www.chimewhistle.co.uk/page/new-products

 

 

 

Alternately, he could be reducing opening hours for a while so he can make progress on some of the Wild Swan books he is in production.

 

regards,

 

Craig W

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3 minutes ago, Craigw said:

 

Alternately, he could be reducing opening hours for a while so he can make progress on some of the Wild Swan books he is in production.

 

regards,

 

Craig W

Maybe so, but the point still stands that shop closures/reduced opening hours is a trend within the book selling business, as more buyers use the internet for their shopping.

 

I hope his books do well.

 

https://www.chimewhistle.co.uk/page/new-products

 

 

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3 hours ago, Chime Whistle Books said:

No one has a right not to have their opinions challenged, as long as it is done in a polite and constructive manner.

 

Indeed, and I choose not to agree with yours. I have seen plenty of small, independent bookshops doing just fine all over the country.

 

I know what Simon's reasons are for reducing his opening hours but it's not for me to say publicly what they are. 

 

What I do know to be true, however, is that there are many people who would not think to look at internet-only traders as their first choice for railway books. If I don't see a book in a bookshop or on a trader's stand at an exhibition, I tend not to know about it, unless I happen upon it by chance.

 

So, unless you yourself choose to supply the book trade and/or trade yourself in person at a show, I doubt that I'll see any of your books 'in the flesh'.

 

And I would go so far as to say that for many customers of railway book businesses, the ability to have a look through the book first, before making a purchase, is going to be of critical importance. I hope that it always will be. That is surely a limitation of buying something 'unseen', purely from an internet website. You would either need to see the book yourself or read a sufficient number of good reviews, before committing to a purchase. It's not dissimilar from where you buy something 'unseen' from the likes of Amazon. We've returned stuff many times, that either didn't live up to the on-line description or was otherwise not what was expected. You don't get that problem in a bookshop.

 

But, don't worry, all is not lost. The time will come when old farts like me will die out and there will only be those left, for whom buying 'unseen' from the internet is the norm. Poor things.

 

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I may well be a bit old fashioned but I much prefer the experience of going to a bookshop and browsing the shelves. 

 

The Titfield Thunderbolt is a splendid place to visit and Simon is knowledgeable and enthusiastic of his subject. 

 

There is no substitute for this approach. 

 

Given the opinions aired here by Chime Whistle and the manner in which they are put across I for one won't be purchasing anything from there. 

 

Rob. 

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